Board 8 > Video Game Console Mafia - Topic 1: The Pong Cabinet

(+) Yeah! (+)

I will say Peaf calling me scummy is par for his course. So I am not that surprised that he did not vote.

Ulti cmon a mislynch is ever correct

Ulti I don't know why you're feeling like martyring but let's just zerg someone else instead.

Everyone is being so plodding with their vote what a boring day to be alive.

We could just lynch @Corrik7 if he doesnt show up. Checked time stamp and it shows his last visit to gamefaqs about an hour and a half ago.

I'm not sure why people are implying that I was accusing Lopen of being scum. I just pointed out what is basically a rule of three, but with additional context of the added early hammer situation. It's literally just a relationship footnote to look back at later, and then some of those same people went into talking about Red/Lopen alignment relationships right after that. Do you not see that as the same thing? >_>

Regarding comments about not wanting to get into setup meta based on this being a backup-setup, fine, I can understand that though I do think it's still a valid point. THAT ASIDE, I think it is still worth considering that this is a setup for a SMALLER SIZE GAME and we are being asked to consider the inclusion of a town anti-town role that ends up in a -2 town scenario fairly often.

People bring up JC's Doomed role in Xenoblade Mafia and how that ended up being true. Two notes on that. 1. That role had specific interactions with a potential cult/scum role that scum could opt into, so it was more interactive than just "dying before we ever even get to night phase." and 2. People in that game DID NOT believe that it was real and were a lot more opposed to it compared to the general amnesty people are just giving Red in this game. If town agrees to test it in some way and thinks that the best option for us, then fine, but I did not expect so many people to just accept it with little to no critical thought involved other than "Red wouldn't fake claim like that."

Lopen posted...

This is a really good point

Wallz town points+

On the other hand dumey scum points+ for posting roughly 12 million words about red being hammerer and how to test it and never suggesting this.

While you're technically right about me thinking about what town roles Red could be hiding by lying this way, and I didn't think about what OTHER scum roles Red may be hiding, lucky for me my plan of not letting Red test himself and lynching him straight up still accounts for that. If we don't believe Red's claim, we need to either pressure him into claiming his real role, or lynch him for lying and not "test" him needlessly.

I'm assuming mzero "day coping" me scum was a joke. Surprised no one asked Mzero more about this "scan"

UltimaterializerX posted...

Go ahead, Red. By all means. Its much better for that role to kill a willing town to power him up than it is to RNG someone and pray it works.

"It's much better to guarantee a mislynch and get less info from a volunteered suicide than to potentially scum hunt and get all of the associated benefits from doing so."

okay buddy.

now peaf, THIS is where we play the WIFOM game and say Ulti would never expect us to actually go along with killing himself, so he's switched the cups on us here.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I'm assuming mzero "day coping" me scum was a joke. Surprised no one asked Mzero more about this "scan"

I also assumed it was a joke, or just flavorful way of saying "this guy right here"

EDumey posted...

now peaf, THIS is where we play the WIFOM game

Oh OK

EDumey posted...

now peaf, THIS is where we play the WIFOM game and say Ulti would never expect us to actually go along with killing himself, so he's switched the cups on us here.

Do you think he also switched the cups on my towntell of him which I revealed last game.

Lopen posted...

Do you think he also switched the cups on my towntell of him which I revealed last game.

Maybe it's me not giving him enough credit, but I feel like Ulti is generally more of an "honest" player that just plays his own game, and doesn't try to specifically mold his gameplay around other people.

I know he himself will talk about how he intentionally mimicked Chris back in the day, but in these recent games it seems like Ulti doesn't really care about that sort of stuff. It's not off the table but I'm not putting a ton of stock into it.

EDumey posted...

Maybe it's me not giving him enough credit, but I feel like Ulti is generally more of an "honest" player that just plays his own game, and doesn't try to specifically mold his gameplay around other people.

I agree with this assessment

Thus we don't need to play the Wifom game as Ulti has done his town tell that I don't think he'd be caring or aware enough to fake and we just assume Ulti is being mopey for some reason and move on.

Do you concur Dumey?

Yeah, fair enough. I definitely saw Ulti's post as more of a "oh Ulti" than anything alignment indicative. I understand your personal tell for him, but I'm not assigning him town points either. Fully in the 'neutral' category until he actually gives commentary on things outside of the Red claim.

also if it wasn't clear, the WIFOM game thing was just a joke referencing back to Peaf's post #56.

I guess I'll also jump onto the pile of people saying that Death's initial post rubbed me slightly the wrong way. The commentary on Peaf/BCT feels a little forced, then nay-saying my conversation about Page 1 Lopen stuff. Like we all know that Page 1 is important, but sometimes we gotta jump on mole hills to start conversations early on, and saying I don't have enough to go on yet to point out early alignment relationships just seems needlessly dismissive.

I don't really have a problem with Death after that though, but I think people that had an immediate gut reaction to that first post are probably genuine.

Corrik not being here day1 seems to be his new MO, so I dont know if it says much about him.
Though a gentle poke cant hurt I suppose.

Oh and EDumey I dont think your points about Lopen were too early because they were on page1
I think its just not handy to start theories that depend on a question that hasnt even been answered yet (what is Lopen?)

I feel like we (or at least I) lay out conditional reads all the time. It's pretty common for people to say, "if X flips Y, then Z," no?

What do you think about the idea that we have outlined a scenario where Red wants to hammer someone early, it seems like most have town is accepting of Red's claim, but there's no real pressure or consolidated push on anyone yet?

If I were to place myself in others for a moment, I would assume that town just does not want to rush a lynch and let Red just hammer whoever we want to lynch naturally

And scum does not want to appear to controlling maybe? Though that mindset I can only guess.

EDumey posted...

What do you think about the idea that we have outlined a scenario where Red wants to hammer someone early, it seems like most have town is accepting of Red's claim, but there's no real pressure or consolidated push on anyone yet?

I'm mildly frustrated with it. I am trying to consolidate literally anything for this reason and multiple people are calling me scummy for it. People are just putting their one vote and leaving

Work with me. Let's vote something. Let's not vote Wallz or Ulti. Let's vote mzero. Let's vote underurmattress. Let's vote Corrik or sbell. I'm up for basically anyone that isnt those two at the moment let's just do something.

They have to be hammered before deadline, and with how games have gone recently, we almost never hammer D1 naturally. It's always a majority split at the very end of day. If Red wants to actually hammer someone, there needs to be a concerted effort to do so.

So in Red's favor, no apparent scum trying push a lynch would seem to indicate he's maybe truthful. Or maybe it's just too early to tell that sort of thing yet. I know Red typically follows the standard scum philosophy of "let town lynch themselves" so the opportunity may just not have risen yet.

I would also expect people like Ulti or Lea to just vote the current vote leader to advance the game state, but neither has. Lea at least said she didn't believe Red's claim, though she's not posting enough for me to know her opinion on "testing" Red in any way.

EDumey posted...

What do you think about the idea that we have outlined a scenario where Red wants to hammer someone early, it seems like most have town is accepting of Red's claim, but there's no real pressure or consolidated push on anyone yet?

4.5 pages of conversation focused around red and a hammerer role (isn't that always the case these days) and only 19 hours into a 48 hour game day.

Do we need to be well organized right now? Some of us have barely appeared or attempted to make a difference. Red can be afforded the opportunity to hammer before game days end while day 1 progresses.

Obellisk posted...

Do we need to be well organized right now?

Yes we do.

Vote trains have inertia. If we just sit around and dawdle we are 2 hours away from end of day and we still have like 6 people at 2 and then red is napping and dies anyway.

Sbell I obviously don't want to test Red at all, so I'm not trying to rush things. I'm just pointing out what looks like an inconsistency of people saying "I buy that, let's let Red hammer" and then not doing anything to pressure that. I feel like Lopen is the only one genuinely buying into the idea of "lets push someone early so we have enough time to evaluate." Technically Ulti too, but he voted himself, so that doesn't really help.

I am probably also over-estimating our ability to facilitate a hammer-ready lynch at the usual pace

We will not be hammering anyone today at all

Refreshing! Someone who doesn't want to hammer and doesn't pretend they do either!

Why not, Corrik?

I don't think we need to be running around like the room is on fire because we haven't scheduled a hammerable target for red.

Feels like the day is being led around with the wrong intent and I don't like it.

Lopen posted...

Refreshing! Someone who doesn't want to hammer and doesn't pretend they do either!

Why not, Corrik?

Because it sounds as a third party win condition tbqh. Also, because Red would do it for absolutely no one else regardless of the situation in the shoes reversed. And, also, Red tried to rush into a lynch quickly just because of supposed role while saying fuck off to the day, which is also unlike him.

Obellisk posted...

I don't think we need to be running around like the room is on fire because we haven't scheduled a hammerable target for red.

Feels like the day is being led around with the wrong intent and I don't like it.

Then give us a direction. I've talked about at least 3 different subjects since coming back today. Don't just whine about other players not talking if you're not helping it yourself.

Remember the afore-mentioned scum philosophy of "let town lynch themselves"? This kind of post where you whine about town not going the direction you want it to, while also not providing a healthy alternative, leads directly into that style of play.

Red, is your condition satisfied if you hammer a "No Lynch" result?

wallmasterz posted...

We could just lynch @Corrik7 if he doesnt show up. Checked time stamp and it shows his last visit to gamefaqs about an hour and a half ago.

You need to update your signature.

That's an interesting proposal.

Corrik7 posted...

Because it sounds as a third party win condition tbqh

Honestly thought the same thing for a bit. I mentioned it earlier today briefly.

We throw Corrik in the town pile too. We also throw more suspicion on those who do not believe the claim yet did not reach this line. I believe Dumey and Lea are in this category right now.

I think I qualify for that as well

In my defense, I would never claim that role as an independent even if it was my wincon.

What if I told you that I'm advocating that we lynch Red because I don't believe his claim, and that is all encompassing of whether or not he is scum or third party, or scum with a non-hammer role that just wants to make sure he lives to D2, etc.

We have literally seen scum hammerers at least twice in recent memory. I don't think not jumping immediately to third party is a point against anyone.

Now that I'm actually thinking about it I do prefer just lynching red outright to "testing" it. It seems there is pretty much no benefit to testing if red dies because if he doesn't die we just lynch him tomorrow.

So now I'm torn if Corrik gets the town points or Dumey gets the town points.

And now I'm like maybe red just is third party here and we lynch him.

EDumey posted...

We have literally seen scum hammerers at least twice in recent memory. I don't think not jumping immediately to third party is a point against anyone.

And ultimately why I veer towards giving Corrik the points is because scum is scared of uttering the word third party because you've got a bunch of people pointing and saying "HE SAID IT! SCUM!" by default. But there is a natural reason to consider why he might say it as third party

But then now I'm less sure of my town clear of Wallz as well since HE did a lot of thinking about Red's role and even suggested "scum team might have put him up to it" but he also did not say third party at all.

EDumey posted...

What if I told you that I'm advocating that we lynch Red because I don't believe his claim, and that is all encompassing of whether or not he is scum or third party, or scum with a non-hammer role that just wants to make sure he lives to D2, etc.

We have literally seen scum hammerers at least twice in recent memory. I don't think not jumping immediately to third party is a point against anyone.

From what I've gathered, the hammerer didn't claim in their first post like red did this game. Does this change your opinion at all, the timing of the claim?

Oh boy waking up to Lopen being on the conspiracy train what a fucking shock.

If red is 3p, he poses a problem for scum as well as town. I'm not gonna lynch someone solely because they might be third party.

Thirdpartymoned.

Lopen posted...

Thirdpartymoned.

Lol

Corrik7 posted...

Red, is your condition satisfied if you hammer a "No Lynch" result?

Yes.

UnderUrMattress posted...

From what I've gathered, the hammerer didn't claim in their first post like red did this game. Does this change your opinion at all, the timing of the claim?

I don't think there was a "i die if i don't get my power off" component to those though. So if truthful, then this is an extreme outlier, and if false this is an extreme gambit. It's not normal regardless.

Leafeon13N posted...

Oh boy waking up to Lopen being on the conspiracy train what a fucking shock.

One of these days you're going to learn that just saying "that's not logical" doesn't actually convince anyone if you don't follow up with an argument. It's not a "conspiracy" to discuss a valid option that we have available to us.

EDumey posted...

One of these days you're going to learn that just saying "that's not logical" doesn't actually convince anyone if you don't follow up with an argument. It's not a "conspiracy" to discuss a valid option that we have available to us.

I told you why it isn't logical.

Hell you all have outlined how I play as scum for me ehile I was sleeping. You are pushing this logic, which as we discussed numbers wise is LESS LIKELY than the actual oh hey red is town argument based on bad percentages and not how red plays the damn game.

Corrik7 posted...

Because it sounds as a third party win condition tbqh. Also, because Red would do it for absolutely no one else regardless of the situation in the shoes reversed. And, also, Red tried to rush into a lynch quickly just because of supposed role while saying fuck off to the day, which is also unlike him.

Are third party win conditions you can achieve on day 1 all that common? Ive never played in a game with an independent/third party, just tekken with the two scum factions. Im not saying red cant be third party, but that would kinda surprise me for a game to be set up where it can end immediately following day 1.

Its nothing personal against red but yeah lynching him would not be the worst option. I already said I agreed with Dumeys conclusion there. If red is telling the truth then just apologize for him drawing the short stick with a crappy role, but at least were only down one town if the worst case scenario plays out with red telling the truth

EDumey posted...

I don't think there was a "i die if i don't get my power off" component to those though. So if truthful, then this is an extreme outlier, and if false this is an extreme gambit. It's not normal regardless.

Good point. Idk, still don't really want to lynch him. At least for today. Where would you go if not red?

UnderUrMattress posted...

If red is 3p, he poses a problem for scum as well as town. I'm not gonna lynch someone solely because they might be third party.

meh, an anti-town lynch is still preferable to a town lynch. If someone claimed Survivor D1, I would want to lynch them because they only become a liability as the game goes on. Better to deal with it early rather than get put in a difficult situation after a couple of town mislynches.

I will clarify that even with Corrik and Lopen theory crafting a third party incentive here, I still am voting for Red thinking it's more likely he's just scum. So the third party argument isn't the reason for wanting to lynch him.