Current Events > IDF declares 'state of readiness for war' amid Hamas infiltrations, rockets.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Soooo any actual updates on the situation? 190 posts later and nothing but arguing

divot1338 posted...

Just based on the number of false statements from the last 30 or so posts originating from unconfirmed rumor, lets try not to air completely unverified gossip.

The videos are on twitter and links have been posted on Reddit. Im not going to look up any further because I don't want to see that. But I have not seen anybody deny it or unconfirm

COVxy posted...

Except what I'm saying is well documented:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/31/why-hamas-stores-its-weapons-inside-hospitals-mosques-and-schools/

I'd like a clear answer on this: do you think this justifies Israeli forces killing civilians, including children?

COVxy posted...

Pretty sure it's been confirmed that there actually was a cell in there. And there were no casualties so obviously the notice was long enough.

The first half would be news to me. The AP was pretty adamant about there being no Hamas in the building because it was supposed to be one of the safe places for journalists to be in the area.

As it stands, the only information that Hamas was ever there is entirely from the IDF and has, as far as I can see from wiki and reporting by people in the building (AP, AJ), no independent confirmation of such an allegation.

And no casualties is good. That's a good thing.

Not giving the journalists even the necessary time to save and recover valuable equipment and network infrastructure that the building housed was a bad thing, setting back efforts for objective observation and reporting in the area by years.

Until I see independent confirmation, I cannot take the IDF on good faith, that a building housing journalists needed to be destroyed. It doesn't pass the sniff test in the least.

It was a strike against the free press.

MistyKnight posted...

I thought trump and kushner made peace in the middle east

Much like his deal with thr taliban they omitted a crucial element. The other side.

Hornezz posted...

I'd like a clear answer on this: do you think this justifies Israeli forces killing civilians, including children?

I'm saying Hamas is using tactics that make it impossible for Israel to defend itself without a large risk of civilian and child casualties.

This is the moral failing of Hamas, not Israel. I'm not sure what other option has other than to try to eliminate the risk, and any form of that when the risk is in the center of a large population of children will likely lead to some fucked up collateral.

Saying "ah, but Israel pulled the trigger" isn't really reasonable here.

DnDer posted...

The first half would be news to me. The AP was pretty adamant about there being no Hamas in the building because it was supposed to be one of the safe places for journalists to be in the area.

As it stands, the only information that Hamas was ever there is entirely from the IDF and has, as far as I can see from wiki and reporting by people in the building (AP, AJ), no independent confirmation of such an allegation.

And no casualties is good. That's a good thing.

Not giving the journalists even the necessary time to save and recover valuable equipment and network infrastructure that the building housed was a bad thing, setting back efforts for objective observation and reporting in the area by years.

Until I see independent confirmation, I cannot take the IDF on good faith, that a building housing journalists needed to be destroyed. It doesn't pass the sniff test in the least.

It was a strike against the free press.

IIRC the US ambassador confirmed the intelligence or something. I'll try to find it at some point.

COVxy posted...

Saying "ah, but Israel pulled the trigger" isn't really reasonable here.

"They made me murder the children" is god awful thing to say.

Hornezz posted...

"They made me murder the children" is god awful thing to say.

An awful thing to have to say, I imagine.

COVxy posted...

An awful thing to have to say, I imagine.

So you're defending it.

Disgusting

ClayGuida posted...

So you're defending it.

Disgusting

Blatantly.

If your enemy uses children as a human shield, you should probably do everything in your power to avoid harming those human shields.

COVxy posted...

I'm saying Hamas is using tactics that make it impossible for Israel to defend itself without a large risk of civilian and child casualties.

This is the moral failing of Hamas, not Israel. I'm not sure what other option has other than to try to eliminate the risk, and any form of that when the risk is in the center of a large population of children will likely lead to some fucked up collateral.

Saying "ah, but Israel pulled the trigger" isn't really reasonable here.

They seem to have a lot less reason to defend themselves when Netanyahu isnt around.

How is whats happening today not exactly the same mistake we made after 9/11? Some far right dickhead is taking that whole country to war for political gain and its probably going to suck the whole world in.

I made my position pretty fucking clear in post #206, so if you want to spend time posturing here, it just makes you look like a hack.

COVxy posted...

I'm not sure what other option has other than to try to eliminate the risk,

And if they aren't doing a good enough job to mitigate that risk then its fine to call it out for what it is. Same goes for the US.

VFalcone posted...

Soooo any actual updates on the situation? 190 posts later and nothing but arguing

I don't think you'll find any news in this topic.

Hornezz posted...

"They made me murder the children" is god awful thing to say.

well, that's what's going on in israel right now and no one seems to give a fuck including you, so I would get off the moral high ground.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

If your enemy uses children as a human shield, you should probably do everything in your power to avoid harming those human shields.

Do you think that that hasn't happened? Not sure why.

ooger posted...

I don't think you'll find any news in this topic.

I see that. Too focused on BS arguing and trying to determine who's right

COVxy posted...

Do you think that that hasn't happened? Not sure why.

Well you're suggesting human shields are why there's been so many child casualties caused by Israel, so it seems like they aren't doing that great of a job at it.

Alteres posted...

well, that's what's going on in israel right now and no one seems to give a fuck including you, so I would get off the moral high ground.

What made you think that? I absolutely condemn the the actions of Hamas forces today. Any targeting of civilians should be condemned, regardless of what side you're on.

However, that's not an excuse to retaliate against Palestinian civilians.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Well you're suggesting human shields are why there's been so many child casualties caused by Israel, so it seems like they aren't doing that great of a job at it.

How many casualties do you expect if everything goes right and you have an enemy base inside a hospital?

None? Seems unrealistic. I have no fucking clue what the right number is, but it definitely seems within Israel's best interest to keep that number low!

Hamas doesn't care about dying children, so they will maximize that risk for the Israeli forces.

It is awful that children have been killed by Israel nobody denies that.

Apparently the Hamas footage today includes kids being executed, throat slit, etc, this is posted online. They are slaughtering whole families, including kids, not in bombs meant for terrorists, but on purpose. Its disgusting. There aren't words for it. I will not look it up but there were many commenters on reddit talking about what the videos show

Hornezz posted...

What made you think that? I absolutely condemn the the actions of Hamas forces today. Any targeting of civilians should be condemned, regardless of what side you're on.

However, that's not an excuse to retaliate against Palestinian civilians.

It's a topic about israeli women and children being drug from their homes, raped, murdered, and their corpses being paraded through the streets.

The entire topic is "but israel is the real enemy!"

It's disgusting and the brain rot is fucking real.

Alteres posted...

It's a topic about israeli women and children being drug from their homes, raped, murdered, and their corpses being paraded through the streets.

The entire topic is "but israel is the real enemy!"

It's disgusting and the brain rot is fucking real.

Yes it absolutely is disgusting that we have people itt defending the killing of civilians. I am not one of them.

This needs to be the end of Hamas. Gaza has been frozen as an open-air prison for so long, only existing in the ways Israel and Hamas lets it. No sea ports or social development allowed.

lol @ all the pathetic probably self described 'left wing' Americans handwringing and parroting IDF propaganda

settler colonialists btfo

HHH_is_the_game posted...

It is awful that children have been killed by Israel nobody denies that.

Apparently the Hamas footage today includes kids being executed, throat slit, etc, this is posted online. They are slaughtering whole families, including kids, not in bombs meant for terrorists, but on purpose. Its disgusting. There aren't words for it. I will not look it up but there were many commenters on reddit talking about what the videos show

You were wrong about the rocket attacks.

You are unwilling to seek out these videos that allegedly exist, taking only the word of... reddit... and Twitter... that's there's ton of footage of these tons of atrocities. And it's like the third or fourth time, I think, you've talked about these videos you've never seen and only hear about third-hand.

Please curb this kind of propagandizing until you verify it yourself or see it verified from trusted, credentialed outlets. Like, just dial it back until you have something concrete and substantive.

Otherwise, you're back to playing the same record on a different track.

tfw_no_gf posted...

lol @ all the pathetic probably self described 'left wing' Americans handwringing and parroting IDF propaganda

settler colonialists btfo

lmao, someone dug up this shitty alt from cryo just to stir up shit here.

active posts:1

DnDer posted...

You were wrong about the rocket attacks.

You are unwilling to seek out these videos that allegedly exist, taking only the word of... reddit... and Twitter... that's there's ton of footage of these tons of atrocities. And it's like the third or fourth time, I think, you've talked about these videos you've never seen and only hear about third-hand.

Please curb this kind of propagandizing until you verify it yourself or see it verified from trusted, credentialed outlets. Like, just dial it back until you have something concrete and substantive.

Otherwise, you're back to playing the same record on a different track.

Ok fair enough, can anybody confirm or deconfirm? I do not want to see videos like that, so Im not going to be able to research it. I will say that I have seen multiple upvoted people talk about it and nobody say its not true in threads with thousands of comments.

COVxy posted...

lmao, someone dug up this shitty alt from cryo just to stir up shit here.

you are a pathetic ethnic cleansing enabler, keep handwringing and pretending you are a good guy though. 'historic justifications' lol.

Nobody is going to take the bait lmao.

Starks posted...

This needs to be the end of Hamas. Gaza has been frozen as an open-air prison for so long, only existing in the ways Israel and Hamas lets it. No sea ports or social development allowed.

Thats how it already is for Gaza.

COVxy posted...

How many casualties do you expect if everything goes right and you have an enemy base inside a hospital?

None? Seems unrealistic. I have no fucking clue what the right number is, but it definitely seems within Israel's best interest to keep that number low!

Hamas doesn't care about dying children, so they will maximize that risk for the Israeli forces.

If you know there are civillians in a building there should be zero civillian casualties if you attack that building.

On a side note it is sort of interesting that a multibillion dollar Iron Shield was defeated by hang gliders.

divot1338 posted...

Thats how it already is for Gaza.

That's what I said

IceCreamOnStero posted...

If you know there are civillians in a building there should be zero civillian casualties if you attack that building.

So they should...let Hamas continue to shoot missiles at them indiscriminately?

If there was absolutely no risk of harm, I'd be all on that. But despite that, Hamas aims for populated civilian targets, and the low probability success carries enough harm that it would be ridiculously irresponsible to your own citizens to let it happen.

How about this: what do you think Israel should do in that circumstance? Let me ask the questions and make you look like a moron now. (mods: not calling him a moron, just that the dynamic of question answerer and question asker yields very different perceptions).

nobody is posting 'bait' - your posts are pathetic American liberal handwringing at its absolute worst. Israel displaces and violates the human rights of the Palestinians it keeps in an open air prison daily, while it's politicians and people keep escalating anti Palestinian rhetoric at the same time. nobody should be surprised that the oppressed will at some stage try and remove the boot from their neck.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Were calling out behavior, not race or religion

Starks posted...

That's what I said

I misunderstood.

COVxy posted...

So they should...let Hamas continue to shoot missiles at them indiscriminately?

If there was absolutely no risk of harm, I'd be all on that. But despite that, Hamas aims for populated civilian targets, and the low probability success carries enough harm that it would be ridiculously irresponsible to your own citizens to let it happen.

How about this: what do you think Israel should do in that circumstance? Let me ask the questions and make you look like a moron now. (mods: not calling him a moron, just that the dynamic of question answerer and question asker yields very different perceptions).

They should do everything in their power to avoid attacking civillians, like I said a few posts ago.

Looks like the GOP leaders had their conference call with Putin this morning.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/3/AADYzzAAE6Mp.jpg

Shadow_Don posted...

put down the maga crack pipe

so i'm wrong? how?

Block_that_Kick posted...

Looks like the GOP leaders had their conference call with Putin this morning.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/3/AADYzzAAE6Mp.jpg

It is Putins birthday today...

IceCreamOnStero posted...

They should do everything in their power to avoid attacking civillians, like I said a few posts ago.

I'm asking you to realistically evaluate the situation. Not fantasize.

COVxy posted...

So they should...let Hamas continue to shoot missiles at them indiscriminately?

Should Israel worry about collateral damage it all? If you agree that they should then surely you agree that we can then have a conversation about wether or not they are out of the bounds of acceptable risk.

ooger posted...

active posts:1

Soon to be 0.

Shadow_Don posted...

Should Israel worry about collateral damage it all? If you agree that they should then surely you agree that we can then have a conversation about wether or not they are out of the bounds of acceptable risk.

I'm saying that given Hamas' strategies, it's not clear that Israel has had a path to defend themselves without risking civilian collateral. The issue is that it's really hard to evaluate what is a good or bad outcome when the enemy is using such tactics.

I think saying shit like "no civilian casualties" is just not a conversation. It's someone grandstanding.

MattSFfrd posted...

so i'm wrong? how?

why don't you instead explain how unfreezing Iranian assets and returning them in exchange for American prisoners == taxpayers funding terrorists