Board 8 > Blade Mafia 5 Topic 8: The Allmother of Seals

(+) Yeah! (+)

UltimaterializerX posted...

End of the game and I'm sitting here talking to myself. Amazing.

I have no meaningful content to add because I'm waiting on other people to show up and engage my previous posts, but... hi Ulti.

Also if this somehow devolves in me having to defend myself when we at the very least out of peaf got to confirm that I am in fact the only explanation for sbell death I am going to get really irritated(We had all of your dumb conspiracying that Lea did something on the table).

red13n posted...

Also if this somehow devolves in me having to defend myself when we at the very least out of peaf got to confirm that I am in fact the only explanation for sbell death I am going to get really irritated(We had all of your dumb conspiracying that Lea did something on the table).

Yeah I admit I was wrong. That was based on Dumey's flip, which...

...wait a minute. Wall is town. Wall serves as a bomb bodyguard! That's why Dumey's immunity while murdering is relevant.

So Lea wasn't the one who could do something to scum. Wall is!

(I still think you're town too, Red)

Well that was a thing to wake up too yesterday.

First things first

I did consider giving it to Peaf the coupon (which was indeed a doublevote), but his inability to use his power caused me to secondguess him as a target and also I didnt want to get in the way of him using his power at night if that was better for him
(and now I wish he had!)

Sheep I gave you the item because I knew a doublevote at this stage was not all that useful to anyone
You could only make it once and after that it would be gone, so I would have asked you to spend it early anyway.
But more importantly you could not have used your night action if you used my item, which would help hinder scum if you were a part of them, or better prove your innocense if not.

That said
Sheep I am gonna need you to try to doublevote again
I am pretty sure the coupon should have fizzled out by now, but just in case. I cant rule out some super weird shenanigan scumpower.

Anyway yes I see Red has to be town since nobody else could have killed Sbell

Less sure about Wallz,not like scum has better targets to fake a RB on (and they could have RBed Isquen on night3)

Oh Sheep is saying he still has the coupons power?
That is possible. My Role PM did state it was good for 2 days (the wording was a but confusing since the other 2 items didnt linger into the day)

I just thought the coupons would disappear if the player was roleblocked when using one
This could call into question what happened to BCT, but he said his teleporter could have gone off and he got blocked afterwards because of him driving into the path of the roleblocker.

Anyway Sheep you can also vote 2 different players at the same time if you want to prove you still have it.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Death, I need a full claim with all actions.

Already gave a full claim but here we go again

Pineapple Vendor, TOWN Coupon Dealer

Gave Chang a Camera night1: Watch/Track that lasts for 2 nights
Gave BCT a Teleporter night2: Self busdriver that has to be used the same night
Gave Sheep a Duplicator night3: 1shot Doublevote enabler that lasts 2 nights and lingers the next day

Oh and in addition, I can only give each player 1 coupon and players cannot use a night action and a coupon at the same time.

I feel its dangerous to assume scum has to be hiding in the remaining powers only
Though I am largely saying that because I dont want to be mislynched, least of all because of that sentiment.

That said I trust Sheep (especially if he can prove he has the doublevote) and Red

So that would leave the remaining scum between Wallz, Ctes, Ulti, BCT in that order to me.

Wallz changing his claim now just causes the balance to be even more out of tune and reads like an attempt to throw shade on Red.

htaeD posted...

Anyway Sheep you can also vote 2 different players at the same time if you want to prove you still have it.

I'll probably prove I still have it by doublevoting the same player? I should vote before anyone else does, I just want to be sure of our choice first because I can only use it once full stop, not just for one day.

I guess voting on the same person is the only way to confirm it safely since votals may take forever to get posted
And you should want to immediately unvote in the same post
Then we should just poke the host for official votals
Even if we have to wait for that tho, and even if the numbers suggest that you cant be scum, I would feel a even better knowing you used it.

And yeah its a one time only thing.
If it wasnt, I would have handed it out way sooner.

I really do not want to unvote once I have doublevoted, mostly because the doublevote is good insurance for if there's a Town player that's wrong or unconvinced. Not much point in having confirmed myself if we lose anyway. I'm happy to have it directed by you/Red as a compromise?

We could just wait until a lynch is decided anyway.
Though on the other hand I can understand if people want to confirm the doublevote's existence first

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Yeah I admit I was wrong. That was based on Dumey's flip, which...

...wait a minute. Wall is town. Wall serves as a bomb bodyguard! That's why Dumey's immunity while murdering is relevant.

So Lea wasn't the one who could do something to scum. Wall is!

(I still think you're town too, Red)

Remember, if you think both Red and Wallz are town, then at least one of myself and Death needs to be Scum, which is a very strange scenario imo. Dumey's immunity while murdering is already relevant because of Red (and I'm fairly sure it prevented him being jailkept too, no?)

BCT I can understand hunting for the best scumlynch for info. But really we take any scum at this point, not the best scum. Thats what a Lylo warrants.

Also you claiming you got roleblocked directly the same night you got my item has me curious since it seems you believe that it was the busdrive that go you blocked a few posts later.
The latter is far more likely anyway.

I am also not that accepting of Wallz seeing all that talk about Lea possibly being a PGO or something.
And him not just confessing to the full power of his supposed role. At least when the sametime claims happened.

Though I guess him claiming he BGed Lea night1 would have been a step too far into ludicrous town.

I have tried to look at Wallz' reaction to the guilty scan but I think day ended too quickly to make a clear conclusion either way.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Okay, so first, FD deserved to be lynched for making personal attacks on me. This is not cool and its 100% why I stopped pushing for someone else. I was trying to help you, FD, and then you insulted my intelligence.

He really didn't though, he just said you didn't understand night actions which honestly it look two posts after the one in quoting like you still didn't. That's not an insult or anything, it can be confusing, it's why we spent pages discussing them. Calling for modkills is trash tier play no insult was even made. It looked like the worst excuse ever to get FD lynched.

htaeD posted...

We could just wait until a lynch is decided anyway.
Though on the other hand I can understand if people want to confirm the doublevote's existence first

This is also fine, if people believe me. Not like there needs to be a rush, just thought it might be good to rid y'all of any lingering paranoia over myself.

I would at this stage like to know where everyone stands and their top preferences to vote today? I'm currently at Wallz > Ctes >> Ulti >> BCT

I'm currently leaning towards Ulti being scum over BCT, partially because I think he overplayed his hand a little D3, when fishing for my role. Scum really needed to know what I was ASAP with investigation still on the board. I want to go back and see how much I defended Ctes D3, because I thought he was likely investigation. Should he be on a team with Ulti, it'd be very easy to convincingly work their way into getting my claim if I had made it obvious that I would claim when Ctes did.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

We also never resolved why no second person died N2 and I think it's because both Red and scum shot Plum.

It doesn't really matter now, but I'd definitely put my money on FD actually being saved above Plum being shot. It felt less likely than the block but yeah.

Wallz > Ctes >> Ulti >> BCT

Lol thats my list too

Ulti is above Ctes only because I do like his energy
But as far as roles go, he and Ctes are equally immaterial.

Messed up the quote block. Dont feel like editing it

ctesjbuvf posted...

It doesn't really matter now, but I'd definitely put my money on FD actually being saved above Plum being shot. It felt less likely than the block but yeah.

I was half surprised Changmas got killed. Felt Red was more confirmed town at that point and almost wondered if Changmas could be an independent.
It seems like scum really wanted the neighborhood to die, so them shooting FD is possible.
But its also possible one of them targeted Plum n1, got no result back, and wanted to kill him ASAP.

I kinda hate to do shitty role meta but at the same time I think it's relevant to work out how this game has developed.

We have two vanilla claims, two confirmed-to-exist power roles, and three unconfirmable weak power roles (now one stronger unconfirmable power role with Wallz new claim).

Bear in mind that between BCT claiming and Ctes (in particular) claiming, it became "evident" that there were no more Vanilla claims. Also note that Ulti was very specifically fishing for more Vanilla claims D3 shortly after I replaced in, with his pressure on BCT. I think that unpairs the two, honestly. Scum at that stage thinks this is a vanillaless game if Ulti and BCT are on the same team, barring the very unlikely scenario where all of myself, Lea and Ctes are Vanilla and Town has no strong scanner.

So, that's essentially how I've gotten to the unpaired BCT/Ulti conclusion, and the conclusion that Wallz/Ctes are probably scum regardless.

UltimaterializerX posted... It doesnt, no. And when Sheep and ctes inevitably both claim not-vanilla itll mean BCT is the only vanilla claim. I know the guy is unlucky but being the only vanilla in an 18 player game is impossible.

Or to flip the chessboard around if he were town one of them would have claimed vanilla by now.

UltimaterializerX posted...
At a glance, BCT makes the most sense to lynch. But I have one major hangup there if BCT is scum, then this game has no vanillas. For this to be the case and for him to fake claim vanilla, it would have to mean two things that I cant believe together. One, Blade would have to make a game with no vanillas and not tell scum. Two and/or, Blade told scum and BCT fake claimed vanilla anyway. These two lines dont go together.

Occulams Razor, BCT is town.

Some examples of what my prior post was talking about. I don't see these happening with an Ulti/BCT scumteam that genuinely thinks there's no Vanillas.

I will also add that Ulti was consistent in being convinced FD was Town, because I considered that as potentially scummy, but I think it's probably a null tell. With certain players I would say that's borderline knowing too much since as we discussed yesterday, the other possibilities seemed far less likely on paper, but Ulti very much plays based on vibes.

Also, for a far simpler explanation which I entirely forgot up til this point: BCT busdrove with a player (IGCD) who was roleblocked by Scum that night, not Isquen. So unless you think that the very, very silly sequence of events that is Scum driving to get themselves roleblocked (rather than, y'know, actually using the roleblock to possibly stop one of the unclaimed players getting an action off) happened, BCT is likely just Town.

I think at this stage I am ready to doublevote Wallz and get this show on the road, but I want to have Red check in first.

BCT, do you take major issue with voting in order, Wallz > Ctes > Ulti, for the next three days? I am almost certain you're Town at this point but I really don't want to push forwards too quickly if you aren't fully onboard because I think you're the Town player that's certain to make it to F3. Please ask if you're unclear on any of my logic.

Why would scum Wallz decide to change his BG claim today?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Why would scum Wallz decide to change his BG claim today?

What does he have to lose?

I believe its to make Red look worse
Maybe.
Doesnt sound like a good plan the more I analyze it.

If you're Town and think Wallz is Town, Ctes, you're arguing for an Ulti/BCT/[Red/Death] scumteam. Sell me on one of Red or Death being Scum before you even begin arguing that Wallz is Town.

I'm not arguing that Wallz is town

I just considered the motive.

Maybe the idea was just to throw confusion around which I guess is working

Sheep007 posted...

To everyone still alive (but particularly Death and Red). I am confirmed Town: I have a doublevote (Death gave it to me and it is active today, for one time only - he can confirm that he gifted it to me and I assume the exact mechanics?). It was, in fact, not used up when I was roleblocked.

If I were scum, I could end the day literally any time I so choose, and the game would already be over, so there would be no reason to disclose this to you. I suggest everyone solving do so with the knowledge I am Town, because the game is already over if I am not (and I would be tucked up snug in bed rather than wasting my time getting this info out there).

This post gives me bad vibes, Sheep. I mean I get what you're saying but still.

There is basically no way I'm not voting Wallz today, let me just make that clear. It fits every team I can think of. I just think it makes sense to think loud after what was effectively two night in a row.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

...wait a minute. Wall is town. Wall serves as a bomb bodyguard! That's why Dumey's immunity while murdering is relevant.

You are overthinking it. The immunity already stops me from murdering him(And bus driver shenanigans). The ninja blocks death. The unblockable stops jailkeeper.

We can probably meta confirm death if anyone was still worrying(I was a bit because the targets were a bit suspect) just because that is the only track/watch and ninja took a bit of work for dumey to get(It would suck to work towards something worthless)

Hey Red, I think the only remaining point of contention is whether you think BCT is Town? I am assuming you also do but just wanna make sure.

If so, I'm happy to go ahead and confirm my doublevote once he's back and also agrees with the final two lynches after today. I do not see a world where you and Death both act so closely to your Town games and have this level of role confirmation while being Scum, and I don't want to make this endgame last over a week when the game is essentially solved.

FD, if you follow the game, I will say sorry I shot down your flavor argument. I read the opening post in the sign up topic at some point the past nights and it flat out says that no safelists exists which makes your Mr. case way better.

Though it doesn't look like it makes a difference now.

I think IGCD was being truthful when he said he targeted BCT on night 2.

I don't think scum intentionally roleblocks themselves(Some sort of PT cop godfather exists i would bet).

That is to say, I don't think BCT could be scum.

Sheep007 posted...

Hey Red, I think the only remaining point of contention is whether you think BCT is Town? I am assuming you also do but just wanna make sure.

If so, I'm happy to go ahead and confirm my doublevote once he's back and also agrees with the final two lynches after today. I do not see a world where you and Death both act so closely to your Town games and have this level of role confirmation while being Scum, and I don't want to make this endgame last over a week when the game is essentially solved.

This post also gives me bad vibes.

Also though that's not my problem, double voting requires no confirmation for anyone who trusts Death.

I checked just now that coupons are not lost if a roleblock prevents someone from using them, not that I expected Sheep to lie about still having it.

If the busdriver coupon had not been a single night coupon.. we could have used that to confirm whether or not BCT was directly roleblocked or not too.
But I still trust BCT and assume he drove into the block.

IGCD being blocked again makes sense. BCT being blocked does directly not. It was driven.

The only weird thing was always (which doesn't matter in regards to the above) is that BCT actually got a roleblock message if no action was blocked.

I wonder if even Wallz remembers what this was about (Back in day2)

PeaceFrog posted...

Lets put it this way, if ulti is scum and IGCD is truthful as town hes aware IGCD was RBd. Also, godfather exists

I think this is only true if we assume that either abacus isn't town, because if abacus is town how would a hypothetical scum Ulti know who abacus targeted?

And if both abacus and Ulti are scum, Ulti has shown a much greater willingness to bus this game than he did in other scum games iirc. But you can let me know your thoughts on that since you were together in Tekken.

wallmasterz posted...

Thats a really good point peaf.

ughhhhh god I want to say stuff about my role but I also dont know if its wise.

tekken was a mess. Ulti did bus me some but Id already made myself look quite bad. I dont think we should draw any conclusions about ultis bussing tendencies from it.

htaeD posted...

BCT I can understand hunting for the best scumlynch for info. But really we take any scum at this point, not the best scum. Thats what a Lylo warrants.

Also you claiming you got roleblocked directly the same night you got my item has me curious since it seems you believe that it was the busdrive that go you blocked a few posts later.
The latter is far more likely anyway.

This reads like a scum post.

Sheep007 posted...

Remember, if you think both Red and Wallz are town, then at least one of myself and Death needs to be Scum, which is a very strange scenario imo. Dumey's immunity while murdering is already relevant because of Red (and I'm fairly sure it prevented him being jailkept too, no?)

So does this.

How does Red impact Dumey's immunity while murdering? Red's action is entirely separate. Do you know something I don't?

ctesjbuvf posted...

He really didn't though, he just said you didn't understand night actions which honestly it look two posts after the one in quoting like you still didn't. That's not an insult or anything, it can be confusing, it's why we spent pages discussing them. Calling for modkills is trash tier play no insult was even made. It looked like the worst excuse ever to get FD lynched.

Not cool to bring this up again. It's over, I got caught up in the game, let's not keep talking about it, okay?

But it's clear that FD didn't understand how my busdrive worked. He insisted it worked in a way that directly contradicted the co-host.

Sheep007 posted...

BCT, do you take major issue with voting in order, Wallz > Ctes > Ulti, for the next three days? I am almost certain you're Town at this point but I really don't want to push forwards too quickly if you aren't fully onboard because I think you're the Town player that's certain to make it to F3. Please ask if you're unclear on any of my logic.

Please explain how Dumey's role is impacted in any way by a separate town vig. Red, you do the same. The way I read it was that he had immunity when submitting the kill, but not at other points of the night phase. It didn't strike me as "he gets immunity because he murdered somebody" but rather "he gets immunity when he's murdering somebody." So he could make a night kill but be killed after it.

If Wall is scum, I'd think his fake claim would involve mentioning it as a counter to Dumey's role. Instead it appears he didn't think of that angle, which to me is a town tell.

Something just feels off about this Wall lynch. It honestly feels like scum is pulling strings. I don't know why, that's just my gut and vibe check. Wall could still be scum and this could be a bus, mind you.

BCT you cant just brush off people trying to argue your logic as scumposts.
Also I am simply saying that if you think you drove into the roleblock, that would mean scum didnt roleblock you directly.

Oh and BCT I get your confusion now
There is no 'other point' to the night phase or parts of the nightphase. All actions resolve at the same time at the end, Red and Dumey's.
Dumey could not die as long as he sent in the kill

You brought it up again.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

If Wall is scum, I'd think his fake claim would involve mentioning it as a counter to Dumey's role. Instead it appears he didn't think of that angle, which to me is a town tell.

Or he didn't consider it because it was made up long after Dumey was lynched.