Current Events > To circumcise or not?

(+) Yeah! (+)

wackyteen posted...

That's fucking crazy. <_<

anyways, as someone who was cut without consent, I'd at least have liked the choice.

A someone who was cut without consent, Im glad I didnt have the choice, because who the fuck wants to get a surgery they will actually remember? I prefer it this way, and Im glad I didnt have to go through a dick surgery as an actual thinking adult person.

The argument against has gotten weirder and weirder, I've seen people compare it to rape.

CSCA33 posted...

Why are you not given any consideration to the harm done from performing this procedure?

as a circumcised person: what harm? I have not felt any harm, and Im pretty sure at the very least its made my life slightly easier.

CSCA33 posted...

There is no medical justification for it, meanwhile we have demonstrable harm from genital mutilation and removing a significant amount of sensation from that area. Its physically damaging and can be psychologically damaging as well. Not to mention the issue of consent.

Its not reasonable to perform such a procedure as a preventative measure. If you do this, its essentially because you want your kids penis to look a certain

if I had any more sensation in that area, I think that would be an issue.

can be psychologically damaging? How? What? Its physically damaging in the most literal sense, the same way any surgery is.

I always feel like the people up in arms about circumcision are arguing on my behalf when I literally could not care any less and actively prefer it this way.

Zonbei posted...

as a circumcised person: what harm? I have not felt any harm, and Im pretty sure at the very least its made my life slightly easier.

Same.

I can never understand these people who get up on a soapbox about this non issue. With all the hate, violence, famine, homelessness, and inequity that exists in the world, a surgery that gave me a cleaner peepee is the problem to rant about.

reincarnator07 posted...

Should you mutilate the genitals of your child without the consent of said child purely for cosmetic reasons while seemingly being unaware of the negative effects of said procedure?

No. You should never perform cosmetic surgery on someone who is literally unable to consent to it.

im not saying you should do cosmetic surgery on someone who cant consent, and I also dont think its actually purely cosmetic.

that said: if it was purely cosmetic, and I had the choice to transmit a message to consent back in time, I absolutely would. Very happy with the results and so is everyone else who has had an opinion.

wanderingshade posted...

The argument against has gotten weirder and weirder, I've seen people compare it to rape.

You don't really need an argument against a non-consensual medical procedure. Not doing it should be the default position.

You need a bloody good one for it. Hopefully better than 'you don't need to wash as thoroughly' or 'I think it looks nicer', or 'it may protect very slightly against some conditions that are more rare than the complications'.

radical_rhino posted...

The only reason circumcision has been the norm in America is because of conservative religious wackjobs who thought sexual pleasure was sinful. All the shit about hygiene benefits is just what American doctors came up with to justify the tradition. If you were European you would be considered fucking crazy for even considering getting your baby circumcised.

this doesnt make any sense to me. being circumcised has not made me any less of a huge slut who loves sexual pleasure.

Iodine posted...

Imagine being so deranged that you would compare circumcision to removing lips or eyelids. People's brains are broken on this topic as if it actually matter.

Are you also in favor of cutting off ears? They might get dirty or infected, and they look so weird.

Zonbei posted...

this doesnt make any sense to me. being circumcised has not made me any less of a huge slut who loves sexual pleasure.

You're almost there.

CSCA33 posted...

Are you also in favor of cutting off ears? They might get dirty or infected, and they look so weird.

not even remotely the same thing for so many reasons. Could you maybe try to have an actual discussion instead of just spouting bs?

Jupiter posted...

You're almost there.

huh? Almost where? To The Land of Ethical Sluts, a paradise of pleasure? Please explain.

IdiotMachine posted...

The older OBGYNs seem to point out that there are a lot more medical benefits

Lol, this is a load of BS.

Circumcision is done for religious reasons (jewish and islamic faiths) and in the US for cultural reasons, for some reason.

Zonbei posted...

huh? Almost where? To The Land of Ethical Sluts, a paradise of pleasure? Please explain.

To realizing the religious/puritan aspect of it (which is actually a huge reason for doing it) is BS. Also, #96 explains a complication that came from being circumcised. As a 33 year old man who showered frequently, I have had ZERO issues or complications being uncircumcised. And it definitely has not negatively impacted my sex life. I've even been told by two girls that I was in a serious relationship with that they love the way it feels when it slides inside them.

Revan126 posted...

Same.

I can never understand these people who get up on a soapbox about this non issue. With all the hate, violence, famine, homelessness, and inequity that exists in the world, a surgery that gave me a cleaner peepee is the problem to rant about.

if youre saying you cant keep your dick clean without cutting part it off, sounds like you just have a problem washing your dick
gross

Zonbei posted...

not even remotely the same thing for so many reasons. Could you maybe try to have an actual discussion instead of just spouting bs?

Spouting BS? Youre in this topic as a champion for a barbaric practice of chopping up the genitals of babies for no medical reason. Why not go for some ears too while youre at it? What do you need them for?

Jupiter posted...

To realizing the religious/puritan aspect of it (which is actually a huge reason for doing it) is BS. Also, #96 explains a complication that came from being circumcised. As a 33 year old man who showered frequently, I have had ZERO issues or complications being uncircumcised. And it definitely has not negatively impacted my sex life. I've even been told by two girls that I was in a serious relationship with that they love the way it feels when it slides inside them.

I mean. Of course the religious aspect is BS. Why do you think Im only almost there? I already knew that and never said otherwise. Thats why I was openly saying something to the contrary.

well Im not trying to be too explicit here, but Ive had far more than two people express positive feelings about my situation.

CSCA33 posted...

Spouting BS? Youre in this topic as a champion for a barbaric practice of chopping up the genitals of babies for no medical reason. Why not go for some ears too while youre at it? What do you need them for?

champion? All Ive done is say that Im happy with it for myself. And pointed out some frankly ridiculous hyperbole.

the fact you cant tell the difference between a procedure that has benefits, however small, and no real downsides (complications can happen either way), and literally chopping off ears which definitely has real downsides and zero benefits, only reflects badly on you. Thats why what you said is bs. Theyre not comparable.

ArsGoetia posted...

if youre saying you cant keep your dick clean without cutting part it off, sounds like you just have a problem washing your dick
gross

Cant speak for revan, but all Ive ever said is that its a little easier and less time consuming. Which is just true.

Zonbei posted...

Cant speak for revan, but all Ive ever said is that its a little easier and less time consuming. Which is just true.

How is it less time consuming? Either you wash your dick or your don't. Having foreskin doesn't make washing your dick significantly harder or more time consuming.

Zonbei posted...

Cant speak for revan, but all Ive ever said is that its a little easier and less time consuming. Which is just true.

you washed a lot of dicks for comparison?

Jupiter posted...

How is it less time consuming? Either you wash your dick or your don't. Having foreskin doesn't make washing your dick significantly harder or more time consuming.

You thinking thats the case either means you arent clear on how circumcised dicks work or you arent washing yourself right.

ArsGoetia posted...

you washed a lot of dicks for comparison?

would it matter if I have? What, are you some kind of homophobe?

Zonbei posted...

champion? All Ive done is say that Im happy with it for myself. And pointed out some frankly ridiculous hyperbole.

the fact you cant tell the difference between a procedure that has benefits, however small, and no real downsides (complications can happen either way), and literally chopping off ears which definitely has real downsides and zero benefits, only reflects badly on you. Thats why what you said is bs. Theyre not comparable.

There are 100 neonatal circumcision-related deaths per year in the US. No babies died because their parents chose not to have them circumcised.

We need the opinion of a professional dick washer on this. Anyone here do nursing?

IdiotMachine posted...

Apparently, the most bleeding you'd expect is also a drop or so; and most babies undergoing circumcision don't even cry or show any discomfort. This seems hard to believe, but all 4 of our OBGYNs said this.

But the resident experts on CE say otherwise. I think I'll believe them.

Zonbei posted...

Cant speak for revan, but all Ive ever said is that its a little easier and less time consuming. Which is just true.

Don't know what your on about but washing an uncut dick takes the same amount of time as a cut one. Either way the only reason a person should be cut is for a medical emergency or by their own choice. The whole point of this argument is consent. A baby cannot consent and therefore should he left the fuck alone until they can make the choice themselves.

As someone who is also circumcised, you still have to wash your dick. The idea that it's somehow "cleaner" when you live in a country that has easy access to water and personal hygiene is just laughable. The "pros" for circumcision is highly exaggerated because if it really did help with things like HIV, you would think HIV rates would also be lower in places with more circumcision like North Africa. The simple fact is that even if there is any positive effects, it's extremely minimal. It's primarily a cosmetic or religious thing here in the states.

Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

But the resident experts on CE say otherwise. I think I'll believe them.

Strawman DoA. No one is arguing that.

Objections are based on it being a non-consensual and unnecessary procedure. Nothing to do with how much pain it inflicts at the time.

Zonbei posted...

would it matter if I have?

i mean yeah? lol
as someone thats handled a lot of dick, its not really that different at all and weirdos that get super defensive about their own cut status and make up dumbass reasons about why their status is better like "omg do you realize how hard it is to wash an uncut dick?" are fuckin dumb lol

ai123 posted...

There are 100 neonatal circumcision-related deaths per year in the US. No babies died because their parents chose not to have them circumcised.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3b97cf85.jpg

What info I could find on circumcision related deaths is they theyre due to failure to adhere to medical standards. Which can happen with any procedure.

You say that not being circumcised has never killed any babies. One: you purposely phrased that to avoid the fact that circumcision is known to lower the risk of penile cancer, HIV, and spreading HPV (which kills women mostly.) Two, there are reports of UTIs (another thing that being circumcised helps prevent, especially at a young age) killing babies due to not being circumcised, although this is also very rare. In one (admittedly pretty old) study, the studied group had two deaths from that, and no deaths at all in the circumcised group.

its clearly more complex than youre making it out to be.

ArsGoetia posted...

i mean yeah? lol
as someone thats handled a lot of dick, its not really that different at all and weirdos that get super defensive about their own cut status and make up dumbass reasons about why their status is better like "omg do you realize how hard it is to wash an uncut dick?" are fuckin dumb lol

everyone I have ever talked to about this has said its more work. Not a lot, not some massive undertaking, but is in fact simply
more time spent if youre actually getting clean.

I mean maybe theyre all wrong, I can only listen to people who have been through different experiences than I have. Kind of like I wouldnt try to tell a circumcised person theyd been mutilated and their life was worse if I wasnt circumcised.

Zonbei posted...

champion? All Ive done is say that Im happy with it for myself.

Hmm lets see

Zonbei posted...

What info I could find on circumcision related deaths is they theyre due to failure to adhere to medical standards. Which can happen with any procedure.

You say that not being circumcised has never killed any babies. One: you purposely phrased that to avoid the fact that circumcision is known to lower the risk of penile cancer, HIV, and spreading HPV (which kills women mostly.) Two, there are reports of UTIs (another thing that being circumcised helps prevent, especially at a young age) killing babies due to not being circumcised, although this is also very rare. In one (admittedly pretty old) study, the studied group had two deaths from that, and none in the circumcised group.

its clearly more complex than youre making it out to be.

Guess that didnt last long.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

Don't know what your on about but washing an uncut dick takes the same amount of time as a cut one. Either way the only reason a person should be cut is for a medical emergency or by their own choice. The whole point of this argument is consent. A baby cannot consent and therefore should he left the fuck alone until they can make the choice themselves

as one of those babies, I personally could not give a fuck about what they did to me. By definition, babies cannot consent to literally anything and yet many things are done to them. Many things my family, doctors, whatever, did, I did not consent to. Oh well. Medical professionals say there are pros and cons either way, its a choice left to the parents. Im fine with that, like you are all in many other cases.

Zonbei posted...

everyone I have ever talked to about this has said its more work. Not a lot, not some massive undertaking, but is in fact simply
more time spent if youre actually getting clean.

I mean maybe theyre all wrong, I can only listen to people who have been through different experiences than I have. Kind of like I wouldnt try to tell a circumcised person theyd been mutilated and their life was worse if I wasnt circumcised.

idk id rather my kid be doomed to an eternity of keeping his dick clean
than cut part of it off
anyone that says it isnt genital mutilation is covering for and coping with a culture that encourages it
you think FGM has persisted as long as it has without tacit support from victims of it that don't even realize it because of the culture they live in?

I e been thinking about getting a trim

CSCA33 posted...

Hmm lets see

Guess that didnt last long.

Yeah, crazy how I provided facts when someone spread misinformation. Such championing. Its almost like I looked up something someone said and saw it was wrong.

Even if I was suddenly a champion for circumcision, a term youre using to get an emotional reaction out of people rather than one that actually means anything here, that wouldnt change what I said initially. As it turns out, time passes and conversations change.

ArsGoetia posted...

idk id rather my kid be doomed to an eternity of keeping his dick clean
than cut part of it off
anyone that says it isnt genital mutilation is covering for and coping with a culture that encourages it
you think FGM has persisted as long as it has without tacit support from victims of it that don't even realize it because of the culture they live in?

Female Genital Mutilation is an entirely different thing, with literally zero medical benefits (there are benefits of circumcision even if you think they arent worth it), done entirely to oppress women. People like you need to stop using it as some kind of gotcha, easily since none of you fuckers oppose it anywhere near as vehemently or loudly as you do circumcision.

as I have said, personally, I prefer being circumcised and Im glad it was done. I cant speak for anyone else. You know who can speak for babies though? Their parents.

Zonbei posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3b97cf85.jpg

What info I could find on circumcision related deaths is they theyre due to failure to adhere to medical standards. Which can happen with any procedure.

You say that not being circumcised has never killed any babies. One: you purposely phrased that to avoid the fact that circumcision is known to lower the risk of penile cancer, HIV, and spreading HPV (which kills women mostly.) Two, there are reports of UTIs (another thing that being circumcised helps prevent, especially at a young age) killing babies due to not being circumcised, although this is also very rare. In one (admittedly pretty old) study, the studied group had two deaths from that, and none in the circumcised group.

its clearly more complex than youre making it out to be.

My information on neonatal deaths is from here:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240804903_Lost_Boys_An_Estimate_of_US_Circumcision-Related_Infant_Deaths

Every medical procedure carries risk for a variety of reasons. That's precisely why you don't do them without very good reason. Slightly easier washing and looks nicer to some are not very good reasons.

Penile cancer is vanishingly rare in men under the age of 80. The likelihood of circumcision saving you is less than the chances of death by complications. As others have pointed out, nations that do not routinely circumcise are not characterised by significantly higher rates of penile cancer and STDs.

Zonbei posted...

as one of those babies, I personally could not give a fuck about what they did to me. By definition, babies cannot consent to literally anything and yet many things are done to them. Many things my family, doctors, whatever, did, I did not consent to. Oh well. Medical professionals say there are pros and cons either way, its a choice left to the parents. Im fine with that, like you are all in many other cases.

Like getting vaccinated? Because not doing it affects others. A circumstance only affects the person its happening to. Not the same thing. You may be fine with it and thats great but a lot of guys I've had sex with tell me that they wish they had theirs and they would have if they had been given that choice. Not everyone is ok with being cut with no choice. Consent fucking matters.

Prestoff posted...

As someone who is also circumcised, you still have to wash your dick. The idea that it's somehow "cleaner" when you live in a country that has easy access to water and personal hygiene is just laughable. The "pros" for circumcision is highly exaggerated because if it really did help with things like HIV, you would think HIV rates would also be lower in places with more circumcision like North Africa. The simple fact is that even if there is any positive effects, it's extremely minimal. It's primarily a cosmetic or religious thing here in the states.

Anyone saying its cleaner is wrong, as long as everyone involved is washing. Its slightly harder to clean though and requires you to know the correct way to, which leads to more uncircumcised gross people failing to clean. Unfortunate but true.

HIV rates among people who are circumcised in Africa ARE lower than HIV rates among people who arent, in Africa. a higher rate of circumcision doesnt magically make them drop below other countries in terms of HIV rates.

Zonbei posted...

Female Genital Mutilation is an entirely different thing, with literally zero medical benefits (there are benefits of circumcision even if you think they arent worth it), done entirely to oppress women. People like you need to stop using it as some kind of gotcha, easily since none of you fuckers oppose it anywhere near as vehemently or loudly as you do circumcision.

what kind of dumbass argument is this
i dont live in a society that permits FGM
i live in one of the few societies that encourages it for men
why wouldnt i be more outspoken about something happening in my country?
there are no proven medical benefits for male circumcision that affect citizens of developed nations

ai123 posted...

My information on neonatal deaths is from here:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240804903_Lost_Boys_An_Estimate_of_US_Circumcision-Related_Infant_Deaths

Every medical procedure carries risk for a variety of reasons. That's precisely why you don't do them without very good reason. Slightly easier washing and looks nicer to some are not very good reasons.

Penile cancer is vanishingly rare in men under the age of 80. The likelihood of circumcision saving you is less than the chances of death by complications. As others have pointed out, nations that do not routinely circumcise are not characterised by significantly higher rates of penile cancer and STDs.

The link you posted is by Dan Bollinger, who is literally mentioned by name in what I posted as being untrustworthy.

The only reason I didnt provide a link is because its paywalled, by the way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circumcision-outweigh-risks-pediatric-group-says.html

not characterized by significantly higher rates. Correct. Slightly higher rates. Thats why this is an elective procedure with pros and cons on both sides, and thus a personal choice for parents.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8022379/#:~:text=The%20prevalence%20of%20STIs%20overall,vs%2015.5%25%2C%20respectively).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0130396

Zonbei posted...

Cant speak for revan, but all Ive ever said is that its a little easier and less time consuming. Which is just true.

Washed many uncircumcised penises, have you?

ArsGoetia posted...

what kind of dumbass argument is this
i dont live in a society that permits FGM
i live in one of the few societies that encourages it for men
why wouldnt i be more outspoken about something happening in my country?
there are no proven medical benefits for male circumcision that affect citizens of developed nations

Right, so you never talk about it because it doesnt affect you, except to bring it up as a gotcha when arguing about circumcision. Thank you for proving my point.

You can say things like there are no proven benefits but youre literally just lying. Studies show otherwise. You may not think the benefits are pronounced enough to justify doing it, which is fair, but you shouldnt have to pretend there are none to make your case.

FunWithAFryPan posted...

Washed many uncircumcised penises, have you?

somebody already said this exact thing because youre all boring as hell, so Im going to respond the same way, with an addition.

what if I have? What are you, some kind of homophobe? Or do you just hate healthcare workers?

It is crazy to me that Americans know:

1. Nobody else does this except for religion

2. It was a plan hatched by a cereal man to stop people from jerking it

3. The hospital takes that foreskins and sells it. You don't even get a cut of that either. In fact, you are paying thrm. You are literally paying them to give them something they are then going to make more money off.

And they still are in favor of this. It is like stockholm syndrome to a cereal man's ghost. So weird.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

Like getting vaccinated? Because not doing it affects others. A circumstance only affects the person its happening to. Not the same thing. You may be fine with it and thats great but a lot of guys I've had sex with tell me that they wish they had theirs and they would have if they had been given that choice. Not everyone is ok with being cut with no choice. Consent fucking matters.

circumcision or lack thereof can effect others, thanks to the spread of HIV and HPV. However thats a slight effect compared to the serious issues of not getting vaccinated. Thats literally all pros and almost never any cons, and not doing so actively affects the whole of society. The fact youd compare them shows that youre not acting in good faith, or you dont know what youre talking about. Either way, another instance of this conversation coming entirely from an emotional place that ignores facts.

seriously, you can have an opinion on this without making shit up or making bad comparisons. I dont want me or my children to get circumcised is a totally fine thing to believe.