Current Events > To circumcise or not?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Zikten posted...

I see it everytime I look down. It looks horrifying to me.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that friend

Zikten posted...

I see it everytime I look down. It's fine. Yours looks horrifying to me. Everyone is used to what they have. To me it looks normal. Because it is. That's literally what humans are supposed to look like

You only think yours looks good cause it's what you are used to

Okay Bigot

BobanMarjanovic posted...

Okay Bigot

Ok hypocrite

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Alleged health benefits, ease of maintenance, and parental rights.

BobanMarjanovic posted...

Okay Bigot

How does what he said make him a bigot?

ai123 posted...

Alleged health benefits, ease of maintenance, and parental rights.

I can somewhat understand the first two, the first one more than the second. The parental rights thing is lunacy though. Do Americans think their baby is like their car or something? Like some object they own.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

How does what he said make him a bigot?

It's basically only a matter of time before antis all call it knife rape and foreskin genocide.

Zwijn posted...

I can somewhat understand the first two, the first one more than the second. The parental rights thing is lunacy though. Do Americans think their baby is like their car or something? Like some object they own.

I think the idea is that someone has to make the choice. The baby can't, so it falls to the parents.

And that, for me, is why the whole thing is mad. When it comes to unnecessary surgical procedures without consent, the default should be 'no'. Not 'well, there are arguments on both sides, so let the parents decide'.

ai123 posted...

I think the idea is that someone has to make the choice. The baby can't, so it falls to the parents.

And that, for me, is why the whole thing is mad. When it comes to unnecessary surgical procedures without consent, the default should be 'no'. Not 'well, there are arguments on both sides, so let the parents decide'.

there are arguments on both sides so let the parents decide is how basically all of parenting works, especially medical stuff. I dont understand why its suddenly different when its a penis. I doubt youre against every other unnecessary but beneficial medical procedure.

Zonbei posted...

there are arguments on both sides so let the parents decide is how basically all of parenting works, especially medical stuff. I dont understand why its suddenly different when its a penis. I doubt youre against every other unnecessary but beneficial medical procedure.

Yes?

ai123 posted...

Alleged health benefits, ease of maintenance, and parental rights.

To be clear, ease of maintenance was only my personal reason for being happy with being circumcised, among other reasons. Its certainly not a reason to choose circumcision on its own.

parental rights is also a weird misrepresentation. Ive only said that it makes sense its up to parents. Im not saying circumcise because parental rights. I HAVE said that most of the medical community believes its a choice, and that choice falls to parents.

Zwijn posted...

Yes?

So youre against all nonessential medical
procedures that change the body for anyone under 18? So you oppose cleft lip being fixed when its not medically necessary? Braces? Vaccines? Any sort of surgery to correct a disability or deformity? Theres a
lot of different commonly
performed elective pediatric surgeries.

Or do you have some other threshold thats lesser than necessary?

Zonbei posted...

So youre against all nonessential medical
procedures that change the body for anyone under 18? So you oppose cleft lip being fixed when its not medically necessary? Braces? Vaccines? Any sort of surgery to correct a disability or deformity? Or do you have some other threshold thats lesser than necessary?

Had to dig deep for that didnt you? Also in my country children have bodily autonomy after theyre 12 and before that age it is advised to not always go against the childs wishes.

Zonbei posted...

So youre against all nonessential medical
procedures that change the body for anyone under 18? So you oppose cleft lip being fixed when its not medically necessary? Braces? Vaccines? Any sort of surgery to correct a disability or deformity? Or do you have some other threshold thats lesser than necessary?

Are you seriously comparing foreskin to deformities and diseases/viruses?

Zwijn posted...

Had to dig deep for that didnt you? Also in my country children have bodily autonomy after theyre 12 and before that age it is advised to not always go against the childs wishes.

no, those ones were pretty much off the top of my head. Babies dont have wishes.

Enclave posted...

Are you seriously comparing foreskin to deformities and diseases/viruses?

No, Im comparing an elective surgery to an elective surgery. If youre against one because of consent and not being necessary youre against all of them. The HPV vaccine isnt a necessity for children. ( it you should get it.) Cleft lip and other surgeries arent medically necessary for all children.

Im not the one making blanket statements to justify my opposition to something here. Im just point out its silly to make those blanket statements, which you clearly
agree with given you understand these things arent the same.

Might as well take out a babys prostate eh.

As long as there isn't a medical reason that makes the surgery a necessity, I'm against circumcision.
The hospital I'm working for does provide ritual circumcisions. I spoke to one of our children surgeons once. He said none of them likes doing it, but also that it's better when they're the ones doing it than a 2nd rate doctor on the streets.

Zwijn posted...

Might as well take out a babys prostate eh.

Given the prostate serves an actual function thats important, no. The appendix though? Yeah go wild, its probably going to save lives.

Zonbei posted...

there are arguments on both sides so let the parents decide is how basically all of parenting works, especially medical stuff. I dont understand why its suddenly different when its a penis.

It's different because it's unnecessary. They aren't saving a child's life, preventing psychological trauma, improving their function, or correcting a birth defect.

I doubt youre against every other unnecessary but beneficial medical procedure.

No need for inverted commas. Unless there is a clinical issue, circumcision is unnecessary. Once people can give informed consent, I have no objection.

If elective circumcision wasn't a thing, and doctors suddenly introduced it at $4k a a time, claiming some marginal and disputed health and aesthetic benefits, it would be denounced as a predatory scam.

But for those with generations of emotional investment in the procedure, the view is somewhat different.

Foreskins serve a purpose bro. Source: me.

ai123 posted...

It's different because it's unnecessary. They aren't saving a child's life, preventing psychological trauma, improving their function, or correcting a birth defect.

No need for inverted commas. Unless there is a clinical issue, circumcision is unnecessary. Once people can give informed consent, I have no objection.

If elective circumcision wasn't a thing, and doctors suddenly introduced it at $4k a a time, claiming some marginal and disputed health and aesthetic benefits, it would be denounced as a predatory scam.

But for those with generations of emotional investment in the procedure, the view is somewhat different.

you mean quotation marks?

as Ive pointed out, many unnecessary procedures are decided on by parents. And many life decisions. Thats the purpose of a parent.

my issue is saying parents simply arent allowed to make a beneficial choice for their children because its a medical intervention.

my other issue is pretending its some insane mutilation when its a minor medical procedure that has literally never caused me any trouble.

Zonbei posted...

you mean quotation marks?

I'm from the UK.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/inverted-commas

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/in-inverted-commas

The foreskin totally serves a purpose. You have no idea what your talking about dude. It's not just a loose piece of skin you should just cut off.

ai123 posted...

I'm from the UK.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/inverted-commas

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/in-inverted-commas

gross, the uk
:p
(Im joking the uk is cool)

Zonbei posted...

gross, the uk
:p
(Im joking the uk is cool)

That's one decision I can blame on my parents.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

The foreskin totally serves a purpose. You have no idea what your talking about dude. It's not just a loose piece of skin you should just cut off.

Pretty sure many researchers believe its vestigial, and the rest believe the purpose is to prevent irritation to the head of the penis. (Something I have never had an issue with personally.) Although that doesnt make much sense evolutionarily.

The only thing that does sort of make sense is is that its to help sexual pleasure, which would technically be passed down preferentially. (Again a thing Ive never had an issue with personally.) assuming people wouldnt have sex anyways, which seems completely untrue given all the sex having circumcised people.

Um for one it protects the glans and keeps it moist like its supposed to be. it also helps to reduce friction when your having sex. Seems to me you don't really know what the foreskin actually does.

It's maming the child. As far as concerns over hygeine, yes, your child like any other person needs to be hygenic in their life to stay healthy. Any stories of problems with "cleanliness" down there resulting in infections/diseases is a result of people who DO NOT WASH there AT ALL.

You'll be gimping your son's sex life in adulthood. It's there for a reason.
Zonbei posted...

I mean. If you washed your dick and didnt pull the foreskin back and wash under it, (I know its not really under but you know what I mean), then youre not really washing it. Whereas that extra bit of attention isnt necessary when youre circumcised.

You describe this as if it is incredibly difficult. What you're talking about literally takes two seconds and is something you learn very quickly growing up as you bathe yourself. You NOTICE if it's not clean, like any other part of your body.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

Um for one it protects the glans and keeps it moist like its supposed to be. it also helps to reduce friction when your having sex. Seems to me you don't really know what the foreskin actually does.

lol. Keeps it moist. Okay bud. Its actually gross you think thats the case. Spoiler: it isnt, and warm and moist is literally Bacteria City. There also shouldnt be any need to reduce friction while having sex unless youre doing it wrong.

Good thing I just made up what I said instead of actually looking it up. Oh wait

JimmyFraska posted...

It's maming the child. As far as concerns over hygeine, yes, your child like any other person needs to be hygenic in their life to stay healthy. Any stories of problems with "cleanliness" down there resulting in infections/diseases is a result of people who DO NOT WASH there AT ALL.

You'll be gimping your son's sex life in adulthood. It's there for a reason.

You describe this as if it is incredibly difficult. What you're talking about literally takes two seconds and is something you learn very quickly growing up as you bathe yourself. You NOTICE if it's not clean, like any other part of your body.

Allegedly, a bunch of dudes absolutely do not. But as Ive already said, I dont have a foreskin and am only going off what Ive been told by men who do and women who have dealt with gross dudes.

regardless, Id rather not have to worry about it.

also: gimping your sons sex life is insane shit only people who arent circumcised say because they have no clue what theyre talking about. My sex life is very far from gimped.

Zonbei posted...

also: gimping your sons sex life is insane shit only people who arent circumcised say because they have no clue what theyre talking about. My sex life is very far from gimped.

You can never know that if you had it done to you as a baby.

What I do know is guys who have made the choice to have it done as an adult (some for personal reasons, and some out of pressure from partners). They say it is not as pleasurable. Which makes sense, there's less nerves with it gone, less sensitivity, not to mention how it helps in sex aside from outright pleasure.

Zonbei posted...

lol. Keeps it moist. Okay bud. Its actually gross you think thats the case. Spoiler: it isnt, and warm and moist is literally Bacteria City. There also shouldnt be any need to reduce friction while having sex unless youre doing it wrong.

Good thing I just made up what I said instead of actually looking it up. Oh wait

Zonbei posted...

lol. Keeps it moist. Okay bud. Its actually gross you think thats the case. Spoiler: it isnt, and warm and moist is literally Bacteria City. There also shouldnt be any need to reduce friction while having sex unless youre doing it wrong.

Good thing I just made up what I said instead of actually looking it up. Oh wait

Guess what? I didn't look that up. If you actually researched you'd know what the foreskin does. That's a part of its function. It came from multiple sites and an anatomy book. Your not even uncut so how the fuck would you even know? I'm tired of you dude. Welcome to my ignore list.

JimmyFraska posted...

You can never know that if you had it done to you as a baby.

What I do know is guys who have made the choice to have it done as an adult (some for personal reasons, and some out of pressure from partners). They say it is not as pleasurable. Which makes sense, there's less nerves with it gone, less sensitivity, not to mention how it helps in sex aside from outright pleasure.

My guy, I can be one hundred percent sure my sex life isnt gimped, because my sex life is awesome. (Yes, its gamefaqs, everyone is lying, blah blah I dont care.) I dont feel the need to feel any more pleasure. Conversely, people who arent circumcised cant know that it feels worse.

Being circumcised in adulthood is not the same thing, and pleasure isnt some sort of number scale. Human brains are malleable.

The American steadfast refusal to engage in any critical thinking about the weird stuff they do is legendary.

'No, it's the people who DON'T cut their babies' dicks with a knife that are wrong!!!'

Do what you want with your own junk. Leave other peoples' alone.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Because people are making weird, inaccurate claims about other peoples experiences, and specifically mine, duh. Youll notice that I was responding to someone, that context may help. Im pretty secure about my life as a promiscuous poly person, so I dont mind telling the truth, and I dont particularly care if people disbelieve or whatever other nonsense. No cope here, regardless of what you think.

Zonbei posted...

No, Im comparing an elective surgery to an elective surgery. If youre against one because of consent and not being necessary youre against all of them. The HPV vaccine isnt a necessity for children. ( it you should get it.) Cleft lip and other surgeries arent medically necessary for all children.

Im not the one making blanket statements to justify my opposition to something here. Im just point out its silly to make those blanket statements, which you clearly
agree with given you understand these things arent the same.

Correcting literal visible birth defects like a cleft lip results in the recipient having a measurably improved quality of life, correcting crooked teeth not only results in the same but it can also help avoid potential (and far more likely than the very rare penis cancer) health impacts (especially regarding wisdom teeth).

Vaccines prevent spread of major communicable disease and helps protect people who are immune compromised who are unable to get vaccinated, again this is not comparable to the alleged and minor benefits around circumcision as rates of penis cancer and HIV are not wildly different between North America and Europe and thus circumcision is clearly not actually a very relevant factor in those.

Of course your more recent posts seem to suggest that you're on the side you're on not because you're actually informed on the subject at all but rather you're defensive about the fact that your parents had an unnecessary cosmetic procedure done on you when you were a baby and now you're trying to rationalise it, this seems apparent from the fact that you seem incredibly ignorant about the foreskin in general.

Zonbei posted...

My guy, I can be one hundred percent sure my sex life isnt gimped, because my sex life is awesome. (Yes, its gamefaqs, everyone is lying, blah blah I dont care.) I dont feel the need to feel any more pleasure. Conversely, people who arent circumcised cant know that it feels worse.

You know who could? People who have had the surgery as an adult. You know who couldn't? People who literally had it done so early that they never knew anything else.

reincarnator07 posted...

You know who could? People who have had the surgery as an adult. You know who couldn't? People who literally had it done so early that they never knew anything else.

If only I had addressed that exact point and you hadnt ignored it.

you cant compare someone having it done in adulthood to someone at birth. I can absolutely believe theres a loss of feeling if you do that, because its a much more difficult and impactful procedure as an adult. And brains are malleable, youd be used to different nerves and feelings.

that said, when it comes to doing it at birth, several studies have found that theres no actual difference in sensitivity. Youre in luck, I even found one for you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7691872/

This debate still going on? Maybe I should have said what I meant earlier. In Canada, they stopped enforcing circumcision at birth. For most of my life it wasn't an issue. As an adult, getting the procedure done for medical reasons is justified. People can go there entire lives without actually needing intervention. If I didn't have unusual circumstances, I would never have needed it. It's not required at birth and friends who have it at birth from other countries didn't realize it wasn't a thing. In all cases, it's mixed results but no study has been conclusive. It's more psychological in nature and depression affects it way more. In my opinion and some studies have found. Should you do it at birth? Not really. Will it make a big impact if you do? Not really.

Enclave posted...

Correcting literal visible birth defects like a cleft lip results in the recipient having a measurably improved quality of life, correcting crooked teeth not only results in the same but it can also help avoid potential (and far more likely than the very rare penis cancer) health impacts (especially regarding wisdom teeth).

Vaccines prevent spread of major communicable disease and helps protect people who are immune compromised who are unable to get vaccinated, again this is not comparable to the alleged and minor benefits around circumcision as rates of penis cancer and HIV are not wildly different between North America and Europe and thus circumcision is clearly not actually a very relevant factor in those.

Of course your more recent posts seem to suggest that you're on the side you're on not because you're actually informed on the subject at all but rather you're defensive about the fact that your parents had an unnecessary cosmetic procedure done on you when you were a baby and now you're trying to rationalise it, this seems apparent from the fact that you seem incredibly ignorant about the foreskin in general.

Cool pretending to be a psychologist you did there. Im not defensive about it at all; I legitimately am glad it was done and feel better off, personally. You can believe whatever you want, but its a story youre telling yourself.

Ive said multiple times I dont know much about the experience of having a foreskin, because I dont have one, and can only speak on what others have told me.

The only thing Ive said that may be objectively wrong that I didnt get from uncircumcised friend and women who have been with uncircumcised men was that the glans shouldnt be eternally moist; I was talking more about dampness, water, sweat, etc, but I was surprised to find uncircumcised penises actually secrete what is essentially mucus, which I presume is what the other guy meant. (Although that is less a function of the foreskin and more the glans, the foreskin does keep the mucus membrane from keratinizing, so in a roundabout way it keeps it moist, in terms of gross dick mucus.)

the incidence of HIV and STDS isnt wildly different between these two counties so clearly circumcising has no impact has been addressed MULTIPLE times already. That isnt how that works. You cant possibly draw that conclusion, many factors affect those rates. Europe has public health care, but by your logic, that has zero effect on std spread, despite the fact thats obviously not true.

Also, nobody has ever said it was a huge impact. Its a minor benefit.

Scardude posted...

This debate still going on? Maybe I should have said what I meant earlier. In Canada, they stopped enforcing circumcision at birth. For most of my life it wasn't an issue. As an adult, getting the procedure done for medical reasons is justified. People can go their entire lives without actually needing intervention. If I didn't have unusual circumstances, I would never have needed it. It's not required at birth and friends who have it at birth from other countries didn't realize it wasn't a thing. In all cases, it's mixed results but no study has been conclusive. It's more psychological in nature and depression affects it way more. In my opinion and some studies have found. Should you do it at birth? Not really. Will it make a big impact if you do? Not really.

to be clear, it isnt required at birth here either.

Zonbei posted...

to be clear, it isnt required at birth here either.

Then that should have been your only argument. It's not a requirement at birth. Everything else is an emotional argument from left to right. I've read all the research there is and even my doctor said there's no real conclusion from any side. Everyone just has mixed feelings. They don't know what the pain is when you actually need it. It's more quality of life treatment for me.

TC said they can change their mind during labour. It's not needed. Anyone calling it mutilation doesn't understand the condition.

I propose we cut off our infants noses shortly after birth.

Facts:
- It reduces the chance of a nose break by 100%
- Less snot accumulation in the middle of your face
- Safe significant times by not having to trim nose hair
- No future romantic partner is going to love boogers and nose hair

Rhinectomies are a win-win really.

Hornezz posted...

I propose we cut off our infants noses shortly after birth.

Facts:
- It reduces the chance of a nose break by 100%
- Less snot accumulation in the middle of your face
- Safe significant times by not having to trim nose hair
- No future romantic partner is going to love boogers and nose hair

Rhinectomies are a win-win really.

My dude. Let me introduce you to what tribul cultures do. Humans have a history of doing weird things. https://www.google.com /amp/s/guardian.ng/life/the-significance-of-lip-plates-among-african-tribes/amp

I'm so glad I moved to a country where this insanity isn't normalized. Nobody asked if I wanted my kids circumcized when they were born because most think it's barbaric and don't recommend it.