Lurker > Sheep007

Utena

Tatami

Most meat is not actually good unless it's expensive, and meat substitutes (including tofu, halloumi, paneer and many direct meat replacements) are typically easier to prepare and cheaper than meat of similar quality.

Warm/hot drinks are nasty, full stop.

Pizza is only good if it has spice on it somewhere.

Creamy sauces/condiments are all disgusting unless they're hot.

Tatami

Haibane Renmei

I am retiring from mafia permanently and would ask that people firmly remind me of that if I try and join another game? I think it was pretty obvious I wasn't right this game and Chris telling me to go sort myself out D1 gave me a little existential crisis. I just really can't keep up with arguments nor make any semblance of logic work myself, which is a lil sad but just the reality of where my brain is. I'm not physically able to be in a game without there being a good chance I will actively sabotage my team, which really isn't fair on y'all - I spent basically every waking hour I could on the game and just... couldn't pull together a coherent argument because I simply wasn't capable. It's frustrating because my reads D1 were really damn excellent, but my instincts don't detract from the fact my cognitive ability isn't there to do the far more important communication part of the game.

Aside from that... I think this was one of the higher levels of play I've seen in a game for quite a while, with almost exclusively excellent players around. Town got a little complacent on those who lynched Chris and everyone seemed burned out the last two days, but the start of the game was crazy good from basically everyone. Props to scum for the crazy D1 plan, I said as soon as I died that's a stacked team and no chance everyone on there was gonna die. They all have very different strengths, are crazy smart, and would have come up with a different way to get a simple win if the Chris plan hadn't carried the team through D2-4.

Scum played great. Ben played great but there wasn't much he could do, and Town just got complacent after that D1. And Han's play was hilarious to watch knowing his role.

Tatami.

Tatami

Mob

Sheep007 posted...

Utena

Didn't see it was already safe

Tatami

Utena

Mob

Tatami

Most legendaries are bad both conceptually and design-wise and going beyond 5-6 in a generation is one of the biggest reasons for the bloated dex, people growing tired of newer designs, and unmanageable competitive power creep.

Revue Starlight

Hey BCT

Are you acting like this to try and replicate your recent Town mannerisms? I know for a fact you played up your ignorance in our scum game together for that very reason.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Actually Sheep flipping town would make it more likely Isquen is scum. It's either that or the PoE is megadisastrously off.

I mean it doesn't really matter what Sheep flips I think he's scum regardless.

I'm reverse Death Miller (flip as Town Vanilla).

I wish Lopen was here and also that I didn't hate self-votes as a concept these days.

##unvote
##Vote: Isquen

I think he's the most likely Scum slot still, and am always perfectly happy to leave a special opportunity open should we wish to pursue it.

Town
Ulti - Have gotten townvibes basically from the very start of the game. Claimed bloody doctor, and lynched Chris. Please do not kill.
Crescent - Also seemed Town basically the whole game. Saved by Ulti.
Lea - blah blah lynched Chris blah blah funny and delightful blah blah (also had a very good post defending JC at one point when it was kinda silly to do so from a Scum pov)

Probably Town
Sultan - Chris' suspicion of him is very strange and fake, blah blah lynched Chris blah blah, had a rough start but has felt very genuine when I questioned him.
Wall - Very strong start to the game, a bit less good since but I've not really sensed any nerves, shakiness or phoney reasoning that we would typically see in newer Scum players.
Ctes - Claimed the Death shot, and while his interactions have been relatively limited, I've felt good as a result of basically all of them.
JC - Silly scan man go brrrr and I have read far too much of him today. I think the Crescent scan claim is a really weird thing to do as Scum? Also as Town. But I think Scum playing the odds with Crescent (especially considering they probably didn't scan her assuming Ulti is truthful about his target) is really weird, and a large risk to take that they could simply not? Plus I frankly feel good about his posts.

Han
Han - He should not by any means escape suspicion entirely (I do think it's likely there's one Scum who has hidden themselves pretty excellently and it's not entirely impossible it's him), but yeah, I am probably being paranoid about the Chris thing, and his response in this topic is the most town-feeling thing from him this game, for me. He's had generally pretty poor reads imo, but did put his vote in the exact right place when it counted (probably the opposite of what I'd expect from Scum, really). So yeah, if you're taking anything from me with a pinch of salt, probably make it this.

Kinda Scummy via PoE
BCT - I felt really good about him earlygame? Today, not whatsoever. The PoE has shrunk drastically, his Chris vote was probably the weakest, and he's done very little of note at all today. A lot of that is my fault, and on reflection I wish I'd engaged him more in the time I was here rather than rereads that I ultimately didn't get much out of. That said, he needs to be pressured and I stand by what I said before about taking an alternative route to it. Just ask the dude questions and make sure he responds adequately.
Dumey - He's in kinda the same boat as BCT, where I felt great about him early on, but I don't fully agree with the take that his response to my vanilla claim was because he was gonna claim vanilla himself? I also really liked the analytical slant to a lot of his posts and found myself thinking they were thoughtful, especially on this reread. Honestly, he's solely here because everyone else has far more compelling reasons to think they're Town, imo.

Isquen
Isquen - What do you want me to say? Nothing else to go off, most of the game has fairly compelling Town reasons, not gonna argue off inactivity but MZero hardly showed much good while here.

Peace out and good luck y'all. Apologies for my shite play, hopefully I can feel a little vindicated if my reads are on point in the end.

When exactly did Isquen claim, sorry?

Thank you Lea. I'm doing alright and will probably post some stuff in dead chat so everyone can understand afterwards because I don't like talking about personal stuff in active games, might not be around for postgame but I am and will be okay.

I'm gonna have a list to go out for the end and hopefully it will be a little help or something to base the start of tomorrow off? And if anyone does have questions for me, now is probably the time to ask and I will answer to the best of my ability given the time we have left.

Look, I've tried, Crescent. I'm sorry but this is all I have had in me this game, I have genuinely put every hour I have been able to into this and come out with almost nothing. I wish there was more to show for it more than anyone.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's only possible if you think me and Chris are both complete morons.

If we're setting against each other, we find a way to get Town lynched there at end of day. Then we continue self-harming ourselves into Day 2. Then whichever of us lives looks great.

I'm not great at Scum! But I get strategy.

I am going to save most of the self-deprecation for the post-game, but yeah, the more I think about it the more it makes less sense and was a kinda stupid idea. I'm sorry for being so paranoid towards you this game, I can't even explain it in a way that will make sense to you or anyone, the rational part of my brain knows it is probably unfounded but it still feels wrong to think you are Town.

Like no slander to those three I respect them but also they have not lifted a fuckin finger here

If I seriously get lynched D2 with a scumteam of like Dumey/BCT/MZero I am going to be more upset with myself than I already am.

Bleh. I'm at the same point in my ISO as Lea is mentioning, and yeah, Han's vote is way, way more of a swing point than I felt it was even at the time. I don't think it's impossible for him to do, but I need a quick rethink.

I think Ulti is probably the most confirmed person in the game. I'm probably gonna make a list of some sort before today, because classically my lists have actually been pretty strong, plus I feel like it's in the spirit of today after I attempted to do two separate searches on JC in this game for two hours and rotted the fuck out of my brain. Also it's just more accessible and more likely to have people listen to me after I die which is, I feel, the only purpose of this other than wasting an utterly miserable three hours to marginally affect the rest of the game. Hope it's bloody worth it for y'all when it's D6 and you're all desperately thinking "gee, wonder what Sheep would do here?"

HanOfTheNekos posted...

That's not theater, that's self-harm. Not to the level of dealing with Lopen, but having to deal with accusations from Scum that were also bad to the level I did?

It's laughable.

Anyway, death throes from a Scum Sheep, so w/e

Cool. Where's Scum when I flip Town, Han? I don't care if you have a tracker scan and saw me walk up to Chris' corpse and try to resuscitate him, I still want you to think about who on that lynch is capable of pulling the wool over everyone's eyes.

I feel Han has been pretty aggressive personally but then I am said scum you believe to be locked!

I don't think JC and MZisquen being scum together makes a lot of sense. Very weird for Scum to come in with a soft defence of other scum (who has done literally nothing) in their first (already pretty strange post). Don't think it changes all that much in the long run, but if JC does flip Scum while the latter is still alive, I think Isquen should be given more of a chance than I think he perhaps might be afforded.

Also Ulti calling me an ovine basically confirms him as Town in my eyes.

Crescent-Moon posted...

One thing though, for Han to be scum requires yesterday to have been a town/scum/scum split where the scum were voting each other.

I think it's important to make it clear that Chris was not present when it became split this way, though. Han's vote made it so that, if either is Scum, the other looks damn good. He could easily, easily have justified staying on Death with the way his D1 went - his vote (and yours at the time, actually) both made me think Chris was almost certainly Town at the deadline, just because of how much they shocked me.

Okay, let's flip that on its head, Sultan.

What have you seen beyond the vote on Chris to make you trust Han, if I flip Town?

Bleh. I don't really like his approach to JC, I don't like his approach to Death, I'm cooling down on his vote for Chris, and he's just not given me a single crumb of good gut feelings all game. Or perhaps my internal microbiome isn't quite right and I need to down some yogurt to heal the flora, who knows. Either way, sticking this down here for posterity because I strongly believe Han should be looked at tomorrow, hopefully more to come when I'm done reading through the JC-as-Town lens.

##Unvote
##Vote: Han

I personally just think Ulti is horribly overdramatic in the best possible way and it makes everything he does look like theatre. I do think it was at the stage where he couldn't back out of the lynch once it gained traction, but I too think he's Town for separate reasons (mostly his overall vibes tbh).

wallmasterz posted...

Im around too sheep

I'm happy for everyone to answer the same question tbh, I think it's the best place for y'all to start when I die?

ctesjbuvf posted...

If you flip town, then yes, that seems quite likely.

Though Wall would still be in mine as well. I have enough respect for what I've seen from him to think he could be scum despite being "new" and literally ever player accepting him as town is a bit worrying. I would not go that route first, but he's definitely still in my PoE.

I understand him being in the PoE, but why is it the case that you respect him specifically enough to be in PoE, but think the others on the Chris lynch are a step too far? I don't necessarily disagree but am curious.

I mostly discounted the possibility tbh Ctes, because I thought the vote was weird and I had just been aggy with Han for no apparent reason yesterday. It's something I'm considering in a lot more detail now.

Also, this is a kinda dumb thing but I would genuinely like scum to pass this onto Chris? I've only just started rereading old stuff in full and stumbled upon a few of his posts early on in the game. It's pretty obvious he saw I wasn't doing great 24 hours into the game and decided to lay off me for a bit. He really didn't have to do that, he had very valid reasons for voting me even if he was Town, and I think he might have literally just done it because he felt bad and not because it was beneficial for him, and it even ended up backfiring to some extent with his lynch over me being an easy one. I don't know for sure, but I don't think Chris of many years back woulda done something like that if it was actively detrimental to him. But it got my head screwed on enough to play the damn game even if this has generally been a dire performance and it was probably a play that was bad for him. So yeah, thank you, I appreciate it a lot. You're a good dude.

I don't have anything in particular aimed at you, Sultan but here's where I'm standing:

I think Scum is probably in MZero/Dumey/Han/BCT. To what extent do you agree, if I flip Town here?

Jeez, it's fuckin' dead here. I wish I coulda been round more a bit earlier.

I'm halfway through my JC iso (my god is he mentioned a lot more than he speaks). Going down lots of different routes and thinking on whether my Han case is good (I am seeing what I feel is evidence for it but want to consider it a lil more before dumping it out there because I would be rather irritated if I make a massive post as I'm dying and it's just entirely incorrect). Nobody sticks out to me, regarding JC, although I really, really like Lea's defence of him? #156, topic 3. Something about it makes me feel warm and fuzzy and I am sorry for suspecting you yesterday Lea.

To elocute a bit more on the matter with a stray thought: I think every single person I remember that Han has majorly suspected this game is either Town or likely Town, except for his very late vote on Chris (which I would like to think about a lil more regarding the whole momentum thing - was Han's best option to vote Chris there considering the way things were swinging?). Scum Han is very hesitant to bus and invite pressure on Scummates who might not be able to cope with it to my memory, but is also willing to go in on them when necessary (I'm thinking of his behaviour in Kingmaker Mafia, and later his feuding with Lopen when he thought it was necessary). If any player in this game is capable of the level of theatre that Han and Chris woulda had to engage in yesterday, to be teammates, it's them.

I'm rereading you because I don't see where the Scum options are if you are not scum, JC. If you are not scum, I also need to rethink this whole game. I've gone through your whole game and have honestly come to the conclusion you are not. I'm gonna look through every mention of you instead because I think there's probably more to be gleaned from that? If you're Town, you're basically the easiest mislynch (assuming MZero is Scum which I am not entirely sure of) in the game after me, so I think it might get me somewhere more useful.

I was also kinda hoping there would be a little more to sink my teeth into than I thought, but alas. Nothing sticks out as bad, but from tone I'm feeling pretty good tbh? It just feels like Town that can't be around a lot. This is concerning - mostly because I think there's fuck all other places I'm looking for Scum that are obvious - Ctes feels legit, and I hardtownread Wall, so we're left with... Isquen and Dumey?

Nah. I'm not buying a three man scumteam. I'm also straight not ever buying Crescent, Lea or Sultan as Scum right now, and I really don't think Ulti is Scum this game either? Which kinda leaves me wondering a little more on Han and BCT right now? I mostly just want BCT to be more present, because his vote is definitely the worst on Chris (not that any are bad in the slightest) - I don't remember for sure, but I feel like he had a far larger presence when I saw his Town games? Regardless, he needs more content and I think that'll reveal his alignment.

That said, honestly, of all of the people that voted Chris I think I'm feeling the worst about Han? I feel like a dickhead for even saying this and I know I've butted heads with him a lot this game, and I really like the dude (which makes it feel more dickish). That said... he just doesn't feel right. I can't explain it in the slightest and I wish I could, I'm going to try and reread and pinpoint it again because I've felt this all game, but if you take anything from my flip, I'd like it to be that y'all should look harder at Han. He is possibly the most eminently capable of lynching Scum Chris and regardless of what happens this game, he can't be allowed to go free of suspicion going forwards. If it makes y'all wanna kill me more, whatever, I don't think I'm likely to find a silver bullet to save myself but I think I need to get that out there. If only because I'll absolutely fuckin kick myself if I get into the dead chat and it turns out I was right on it and didn't make it eminently clear. Please just consider it and don't give him a free pass - and please try and focus on people other than like, MZero and Dumey tomorrow. I'm a lot to blame for today stagnating and I coulda done more (a lot of it is schedule enforced but I can always do better), but our advantage is absolutely boned if we have another day like this.

You could reconsider the game from the perspective of me being Town. You'll likely be doing it in three hours anyway, so I'm saving you some time and giving you something to do!

Thoughts on JC from topics one and two: I actually... kinda like him? Or at least think his posts feel pretty genuine - the weird argumentative spat with Crescent in topic 1 (#197) feels like the sort of thing Town who doesn't have much time to spend on the game would have stick in their head when making a scan, and the more I think about it the more I kinda like his response to his list being questioned? I don't think he overexplained those reads in the way Scum tends to feel the need to, and the only thing that makes me feel kinda iffy is the MZero one. Even then though, I know how it feels to have a bunch of reads where the best reasoning you can place on a lot of them is "gut" and it seems to be coming from that angle, to me?

I'm really sorry for the delay, had a busy day. Will be here for the last three hours before deadline. Catching up now, will start with a JC iso.

Hey Isquen. Can you put a finger on why you think I'm Town, or is it basically only gut?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

If that did not exist then yeah, JC is firmly in the PoE and probably gets lynched today instead of you.

Idk man, maybe I'm getting it wrong but this reads to me like you would be happier to lynch JC than me without the "slip".

Scum doesn't need to take the risk on making that play, Lea. If they shot Crescent and she doesn't move, JC instantly dies. It's not necessarily the worst odds on the risk, because they know that me and Death were vanilla and could well have scanned another non-mover, but I see no reason to make that particular move when scum are already down and it doesn't even make JC look good. If they have a scan, just say the person they actually scanned, if they don't, they don't need to make a claim like that.

I'm genuinely kinda astounded you think that's a slip, Han? I'm literally talking about whether it's a good scan to make as Town in that post, why do I need to preface it with "if JC is Town"? Of all the things I've done that are stupid or I've struggled to put into words this game, I find it crazy that the thing that makes you wanna kill me is a fine point that came out basically the way I wanted.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Sheep I think gave himself away. If, if, IF he somehow turned up Town after all of that, then I'd flip back onto JC.

Is it something that he did in relation to me, or just that he's the next one on your list?

On this note I would ask that we don't end the day until the evening because I'll at least have time to do a JC ISO then.

UltimaterializerX posted...

So who is the scum if my PoE is wrong?

One of JC and Ctes (I suspect JC but something in my gut is telling me that's wrong), I'd say.

Who would you say it is, assuming you lynch me this instant and I flip Town?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Add in all my town reads and the only POE left is MZero, Sheep, and Dumey. Ergo, unless I wildly missed something the game is likely solved.

You have wildly missed something (although I kinda think the game isn't far off solved with ctes and JC in my own PoE). I think there's a decent chance that there's only one scum here, and I also think it's really weird no matter what perspective you come from to think myself and Duney are linked.

Chaeix posted...

Given that it doesnt seem like anyone else will claim with pressure on sheep, do we just do it

also I went back further and saw more of Chris interacting with Sheep. Chris talked more about Sheep initially than I thought. Thats all. I just smoked 2 joints and will be more coherent later

Fwiw, I would think there's probably some interaction between me and Chris that makes it fairly obvious we aren't paired. We talked a fair bit and I do think people are not doing as much digging as they could before voting me.