From: JaKyL25 | #191 "An outspoken upstart entering into a feud with Vince because he doesn't fit the mold of what Vince McMahon sees as a good representative of the WWE as Champion and has to scratch and claw to hold onto the title because of it" is almost certainly an Austin re-hash.
This is pretty much every heel authority figure story though. It pretty much always boils down to them saying that the guy they're screwing isn't professional enough or doesn't "look like a champion" or whatever while their preferred guy is of course the spitting image of sophistication, at least when they even bother to give a reason beyond "I'm a dick". I mean you could call it an Austin re-hash but then you'd have to call basically every pro wresting story a re-hash (...even moreso than you might normally <_< ) because the nature of a business that lasts this long means you are going to be eventually have nearly every story being based on an established archetype.
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
If you want an example of a very basic way to re-run the story, I'm running a TEW game right now that kinda twists the Austin vs McMahon story.
Basically it goes that Austin wins the belt, Bischoff (who's my boss and playing the role of McMahon here) doesn't think he's a champ that fits the image yada yada, typical stuff. But then, after a few weeks, an outside party basically causes the whole organization to cannibalize itself, and Bischoff needs help to restore order. He eventually realizes he needs Austin's help to put this rebellion down, because all of his other stars are either trying to stop it, or party to the plot. He apologizes to Austin, even comes off as sincere. Bischoff turns face as a result of this and some other stuff he's been doing-- basically he's been being a fair good boss for a while aside from his feud with Austin, which he's kinda given up on. That's not good enough for Austin, though, and Austin dicks him over even more while completely ignoring the problems that the organization is having. A random wrestler on the roster calls Austin on being a dick and tries to expose him for the jerk he is. Uhh I'm rambling but yeah you get the picture.
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TimJab posted... BTW if Vince sends out the two MITB guys to stop Punk what's stopping him from getting himself intentionally DQed?
*punk wins title, celebrates in center of ring*
*BOOYAKA BOOYAKA 619*
*crowd goes wild*
*punk hits rey with belt*
*punk leaves*
I assume in that situation that once things got so desperate that Vince was sending out MitB #2, Vince would make the match no-DQ and "ring the ****ing bell" at the first opportunity.
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From: JaKyL25 | #210 I assume in that situation that once things got so desperate that Vince was sending out MitB #2, Vince would make the match no-DQ and "ring the ****ing bell" at the first opportunity.
and the new nexus runs out and beats MitB guy #2 and punk gets the win
but then again i'm not sure new nexus would stay loyal to punk when they're the ones that have to stay in the company and face vince's wrath
Well the "hero" of our story John Cena was oblivious to the organization destroying itself, and his attacks on random people (because he's John Cena and that's what he does) may have even been encouraging it (along with apparently creating temporal distortions to introduce even more bad elements to the organization). Se7en and Daffney were in their own ways trying to show Cena that something bigger was afoot and eventually succeed, despite Se7en talking in cryptic timespeak and Daffney coming off as just inane ramblings. Then Cena and Daffney try to put the rebellion down togethe-- I'm rambling again.
(And for those keeping score at home Glacier is the one calling out Austin on being a jerk.)
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I think throwing more than one MitB guy at Punk is dumb anyway.
The Raw guy, sure, that comes with the territory of being the Champ on Raw, but for Vince to bend the rules and allow the SD guy to try his hand as well, while logically okay considering that it's Vince, kinda defeats the purpose of preserving the integrity of the title.
I mean, his contract isn't up until Midnight, you may as well extend the PPV an hour and keep sending in everyone one at a time. Iron Man Gauntlet Match!
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From: JaKyL25 | #216 The Raw guy, sure, that comes with the territory of being the Champ on Raw, but for Vince to bend the rules and allow the SD guy to try his hand as well, while logically okay considering that it's Vince, kinda defeats the purpose of preserving the integrity of the title.
Has it officially been said that each winner can only challenge for their brand's belt? It seems like an event where the other champion is in attendance (say, a PPV) would be fair game. I figured the only reason for having two is so that you can have a MITB storyline on both shows (although a better solution would be to give the briefcase holder free reign like the tag champs).
Yeah, the best solution is definitely to only have one MiTB match per year and have four guys from each brand in it. Raise the prestige of it a bit when you have the midcarders earning their way into a relatively small amount of places, and only give us one "cash in" story at a time. Look at last year, you have to imagine that Swagger cashing in almost immediately and Kane cashing in instantly were at least partially decided by the WWE realizing that having three separate briefcase cash in tease stories going on in the same year with two being simultaneous would be excessive. Makes you wonder how they'll avoid it this year, and I think that's the reason the idea of a cash-in on either Punk (to keep the title and Cena in the company and cop out of anything neat happening) or on a victorious Christian (to continue screwing him over) has some sort of credibility - it solves the problem of having the same Money in the Bank story on each show.
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
Yeah, they specifically say that the Raw MitB case is for a shot at the WWE Championship, and the SD MitB case is for a shot at the World Heavyweight Championship.
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I'd like to officially join the "this sucks and ruined the angle" crowd. How can they expect me to go for this? It's been how many months since John Cena was "fired"? And that lasted for how many minutes exactly? And THIS TIME I'm supposed to believe it. Um, no. I'm quite certain that Punk will somehow weasel his way to victory, the storyline will be "DESPAIR! THE END OF TIMES IS AT HAND! PUNK IS TAKING THE BELT AWAY AND HEROIC JOHN CENA IS FIRED!!" and before you have the time to say "Yes PWB, this is in fact still a work," it will all be magically resolved and everything will be as it was before, like a Season 13 Simpsons episode (that one's for you Jakyl!)
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Frankly I'd rather not let the fact that they totally shredded the last Cena being fired storyline prevent me from hoping that they'll get it right this time (as in, either not having him fired in the first place, or having it actually stick for a while or at least have a good reason for why it doesn't)
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Since it's Vince doing it and not Wade Barrett/Raw GM I'd imagine it'd stick for at least a while, this time. Also considering what DC said about Cena being battered and needing a break.
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Also I still think Cena being fired for one week and Punk actually beating him is a better outcome than Cena retaining and Punk just leaving, or a MitB guy coming along and taking out Punk before he gets out of the arena, which is what I expected before Raw.
Granted the latter might happen now anyway but the former I have some faith they won't be so stupid anymore.
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Frankly I'd rather not let the fact that they totally shredded the last Cena being fired storyline prevent me from hoping that they'll get it right this time (as in, either not having him fired in the first place, or having it actually stick for a while or at least have a good reason for why it doesn't)
You know what though, they shouldn't get off that easy. Credibility is a huge issue in a fake sport like Pro Wrestling, I mean Pro Entertainment. They should suffer the consequences of their past sins, and in this case, the consequence of turning the "fired" stipulation into a joke is that nobody respects the "fired" stipulation anymore.
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From: SmartMuffin | #229 You know what though, they shouldn't get off that easy. Credibility is a huge issue in a fake sport like Pro Wrestling, I mean Pro Entertainment. They should suffer the consequences of their past sins, and in this case, the consequence of turning the "fired" stipulation into a joke is that nobody respects the "fired" stipulation anymore.
Well the thing is, it's not so much about letting them get off easy as it is me hoping that they'll actually get it right this time and thus fix the bad taste the last time left in our mouth. Because if you ever ask me about that story you'll make me ***** and moan at length about how much of a travesty it is that they didn't use that story to turn Barrett into a true top heel and how pathetic it was that they actually would have Cena do his whole speech about spending time with his family and being there for his mothers birthday and all that when it wasn't true at all. Look, you didn't even ask and I did it anyway. I just don't want to decide that because they ****ed up hardcore then, they can't possibly try to make up for it in the future.
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
The main reason I say that this doesn't ruin the storyline is because it's not like this stipulation would ever actually come to pass anyway.
I mean we can sit here and fantasy book all day about WWE/ROH invasion/joint PPV/whatever, but the fact of the matter is that once Punk revealed his master plan there was not a chance in the world that he was gonna walk out of that PPV with the title.
Either Cena retains or MitB cash-in wins. That was how it was always gonna be, and that's how it still is. The stipulation ruins nothing. I want to see how they get there though, and I definitely want to see what Punk does at the PPV.
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In fact, I would much rather Cena just flat-out retain cleanly after a good match than I would see Punk win the title and either go back on his word or somehow be forced to stay. And CM Punk is my favorite wrestler.
Punk LOSING and then deciding to stay would be acceptable.
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I feel like if Punk won and vacated the title after Cena gets fired would be the best. Go out with a promo saying how he's the best and if he chooses to come back, nobody better forget it.
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I don't think there'd be any problem with Punk sticking around if he walked out with the title.
It's all about how it's presented, though. If he's forced in some way it's bad. If he sticks around to gloat despite "not being on the payroll" and then tosses a few guys a bone defending in unsanctioned matches or something it might not bad.
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I think Punk winning and then "leaving", only to invade nWo style wouldve been great...if Nexus didnt JUST happen and in fact still exist....but ON THE OTHER HAND, this actually is a chance to make sense of Punks leadership of the New Nexus if you think of it... he could reappropriate the idea and bring it back STRONGER than EVER!
Yeah its not gonna happen. But... I dunno Im just getting the sense that there is potential for a re-do of the Outsiders here.
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I'm really against Punk walking out with the belt and then sticking around in any capacity, even unsanctioned.
WWE floated the idea of Punk taking the belt to other companies. THEY'RE the ones setting the expectation there about what would happen should Punk prevail.
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From: JaKyL25 | #243 Best possible outcome: Sheamus wins MitB, gets traded to Raw for ADR, cashes in on Cena BEFORE the Punk match, wins the title and then beats Punk.
I actually do expect Sheamus to cash in at MitB, except he'd be cashing in on Christian 2 seconds after he wins the title.
SmartMuffin posted... Search your feelings. You know it to be true!
Even if that did happen, then still the "John Cena is fired" stip being broken did not hurt the angle at all.
Because we already established that Punk would be leaving! Breaking THAT "stipulation" ruins the angle in and of itself, throwing another broken one on top of the pile doesn't kill it any worse.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://i.neoseeker.com/n/2/nintendo_quality_seal.jpg
Sheamus wins MitB, gets traded to Raw for ADR, cashes in on Cena BEFORE the Punk match, wins the title and then beats Punk.
That'd be awesome, and even without the traded part, it could still happen! Pretty sure it doesn't say in the rules that the briefcase must be used on your brand's champion (see Edge in 2007).
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From: edwardsdv | #244 I think Punk winning and then "leaving", only to invade nWo style wouldve been great...if Nexus didnt JUST happen and in fact still exist....but ON THE OTHER HAND, this actually is a chance to make sense of Punks leadership of the New Nexus if you think of it... he could reappropriate the idea and bring it back STRONGER than EVER!
Yeah its not gonna happen. But... I dunno Im just getting the sense that there is potential for a re-do of the Outsiders here.
Punk/Truth/Christian coalition bank on it.
With Punk being away for a while before eventually returning to "save" the company from itself and then revealing himself as the third man (or the fourth, or fifth, or sixth, if you throw in Henry, Ryder and go nuts and swerve Barrett into there too)
(totally not happening)
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.