Board 8 > All Purpose Wrestling Topic 139: A T-Rex Would Kick Ortons Butt

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announcing

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Now with more bold! Less italics due to bold.

From: GTM | #100
What will he do during the 4 or so months between appearing on the stage for a month and having matches at the end of the year?

I figure for one month, he'll have an interview backstage each week about why he kept WWWYKI'ing all month. Then the next month, he'll come down and do guest commentary on a random match. Month number three he'll cut brief in-ring promos. For the final month, we'll get hype videos in the form of training montages, showing how he's spending the month getting himself into shape for his return to in-ring competition on Raw.

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From: CMPunk
I'm glad TMZ posted that video because everybody needs to be held accountable for their bulls***, me included. What I said was bulls***.

From: CMPunk
...I'm embarrassed. I own up to being a total douche in this situation and I offer a sincere apology to anybody I hurt with careless words.

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I'm sold.

MITB 2011 will be the first WWE PPV I purchase since Wrestlemania X-7

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P [52 - 31]
2008 WFC

ewr is great


love how dgusa always hires kobashi in the first week

i always imagine him chopping flippy dudes out of the air like flies

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TG: on earth class is sorted out by who can drop the most delirious flow
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Hm.

Well, I disagree with people who said that the storyline was ruined last week after reading the spoilers. In fact I'd say it got more interesting. For some reason I just think CM Punk is going to win and everything's going to be a mess, which would be fantastic.

I just can't think WWE can screw this up by just having Cena win.

I wonder if it's because the odds now seem in John Cena's favor because he's fighting for his job, or something.

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i don't doubt for a minute that they'd "fire" cena

but some people do think his job being on the line shifts the odds closer to a cena win

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TG: on earth class is sorted out by who can drop the most delirious flow
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/7529/rapisamanssoul.gif

Well I'm not metaing the odds from a booking standard. I'm just saying that in character, ignoring his overcoming the odds hax, a Cena fighting for his job seems like he'd be impossible to defeat cause he has so much pride for his job and whatnot.

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well i guess i kinda meant it both ways?

but on the other side you have both an extremely unique opportunity that won't really present itself again without looking contrived, and from an "in world" perspective you have a guy who's raging hard against wwe and everything it represents, and who knows and proves regularly that he's got the goods but isn't treated like it.

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bad advice
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I think the spoilers didn't do the episode justice. The spoilers made it seem like Ryder climbed the ring and went "WOO WOO WOO" in a wacky kind of way. But the actual episode had him more or less...threatening them. And the Cena-Vince segment was much, much better than the spoilers said.

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so yeah, you've got two guys laying literally everything on the line in one match in a way that hasn't really been present in wwe for a long while

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TG: on earth class is sorted out by who can drop the most delirious flow
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/7529/rapisamanssoul.gif

Well right.

Before Cena didn't have anything on the line so the odds seemed against him. Punk had rage and "last chance" factor and all that going for him. Now it's basically Punk out to prove something with only one chance to do it vs Cena fighting for his job and for the WWE. At worst, you say the odds are even, in which case Cena loses his oddz hax.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

And yeah I love the build to this match

It's great to see a feud where a title is not the centerpiece. It's been so long since a non streak feud was built like this and actually felt like it mattered. Well, I guess Nexus vs Cena fit this build... but... yeah... I just hope they don't screw it up like they did that feud.

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What? The title is the centerpiece. It's very rare for the title to have as much importance as it does right now. Vince McMahon is willing to fire the most popular, marketable wrestler in a generation if he loses the title to a wrestler threatening to defend the WWE Championship in other companies. The angle would drastically change if the title wasn't involved, and it most likely wouldn't be engaging.


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ICON:
I'm pretty serious about chocobos.

I'd disagree on that. The title is the means to an end here. Punk is using the title to stick it to WWE, and Cena is retaining the title to protect his job and the WWE. A title centric feud wants to win the title because having the title is the crown jewel of the craft blah blah blah. This isn't really the same thing.

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No problem!
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yeah the title hasn't looked this important in a long time

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TG: on earth class is sorted out by who can drop the most delirious flow
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/7529/rapisamanssoul.gif

The title definitely looks important. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that the motivations extend beyond capturing the title for capturing the title's sake. Like saying this storyline is "about the title" would be like saying the nWo storyline back in WCW was "about the title" when Hogan went out on a mission to get it and then spraypainted the thing.

The title is just a playing piece here-- a very important playing piece to be sure, but it's not the only driving force at work here and not even the most important driving force behind the feud (that would be the concept of the WWE's rep).

For an example of a feud that's about the title and only about the title see Christian vs Orton. I mean yeah there's a "Christian is mad because he knows he can beat Orton" thing going on there, but he only really wants to beat him because he took his title.

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From: Lopen | #115
Punk is using the title to stick it to WWE

Which is why the title is important. This is the crux of CM Punk's argument. He believes he is the best wrestler in the world -- better than the wrestler put forward by the WWE as the prototype for what a wrestler should be, and current world champion -- and has the resume to prove it: three time world champion; tag team champion; intercontinental champion; protege of Paul Heyman; the man who retired Jeff Hardy; undefeated vs. John Cena in 2011; etc. Despite all these accomplishments, he's constantly passed over for any sort of marketing or main event slot. He needs to prove to the WWE that he's the best wrestler in the world, and in order to do so, he has to defeat their idea of the best wrestler in the world, for the title, on CM Punk's last day of employment. He's beyond frustrated with the WWE, and needs to take their title away from them to both prove his point and punish them for being so wrong.

It doesn't work without the title.

From: Lopen | #117
(that would be the concept of the WWE's rep).

What does this even mean?

From: Viktor Vaughn | #116
yeah the title hasn't looked this important in a long time

I dunno, the Nexus stuff put a ton of importance on the title. John Cena was willing to be fired in order to keep the title from Wade Barrett. Sure, the follow-up was dreadful, but that moment was excellent.


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ICON:
the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops the raindrops

I suppose you're right. It's just kinda hard for me mentally to separate that from the stuff that came after.

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bad advice
http://img.imgcake.com/viktorpnges.png

As in Punk is out to besmirch the rep of the WWE (using walking out with their title to do so) and Cena is fighting to defend their rep (and now his job) by keeping the title at home. Having the title isn't about being the best in the WWE at the moment, it's about just having the title so it does (or doesn't) get taken away from the WWE when Punk's contract expires.

Punk never once mentioned the title in his rant last week. He complained about marketing and such. He's out to stick it to Cena and the WWE and is going to take the title to do so, but I don't agree that the title is the real focal point. Like I said it's just a tool Punk is using to accomplish his goals. I really don't agree that his approach is "I'm better than Cena and the WWE, and by taking the title I'll prove it" like you're implying. I more interpret as "I'm better than Cena and the WWE, and now on my way out I'm going to dick them over by taking their title with me."

Like I know you're saying it's both but I'm saying it's hardly the first at all. At least that's how I see it. I don't get the vibe that Punk feels he has to prove anything at the moment.

I agree it doesn't work without the title, but that's only because that's really the only tool he can use to spite WWE this much without like... I don't know what.

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I disagree, simply because of his word choice when he first said it.

He didn't say "I'm leaving WWE and taking the title with me."

He said "I'm leaving WWE as the WWE Champion."

That makes it seem that his approach is more "I'm the best, I'm gonna prove it, and then I'll leave as the best" over "I just wanna screw them over."

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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In any case, the fact that it's an even debatable point means it's less title centric than most recent title feuds have been, anyway. He may want the title to prove he's the best, and that may or may not be his top reason for getting it, but he pretty clearly wants the title for more than just that, which is the big point here.

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No problem!
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I was almost about to ask when the last time there was a true superfeud anywhere that wasn't about the title. And then I remembered



I just love that video for some reason.

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But it's just you debating it.

Like you count.

Burn.

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Psh Jakyl's totally going to agree with me when he gets in here. You just watch.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

this match reallly does feel like everything's gonna be on the line.

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Vote for this guy in every contest: Sess

I think Cena's going to win, and the only way he doesn't is if ADR wins the Raw MitB match.

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Totally meta discussion in this topic, it's like the odds are so stacked against Cena, it seems like Cena has the advantage and is going to lose!

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Member of the merSHINEsess Nation since 7/15/09

I'm going to largely agree with Lopen here. The way I see it, this feud isn't about the title, and then people getting personal over it (like usual WWE feuds), it's about major personal issues between Punk, Cena and the WWE in general, and the title being the only thing important enough to do their plans justice.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

rewatched Unforgiven 2001

so good

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i should note before i say anything that i haven't seen any of the new developments from last night's raw besides cena's opening promo

i agree with lopen that the feud isn't really about the title

the title is on the line in the match, but it's really just a symbol of the wwe as a whole

most guys challenge for the title because they want to be champion

punk has no interest in being wwe champion (in kayfabe at least). all he wants is to have the belt in his possession when he walks out the door. he doesn't want to defend the title or represent the wwe as its champion, he just wants to wreak as much havoc on the wwe as he can on his way out the door. everybody knows how sore a subject the idea of somebody leaving with the title is for vince. he screwed his biggest star and most loyal soldier to prevent it from happening before. i'm really surprised they haven't brought bret back to be involved with the angle. it seemed like the perfect opportunity when they had HBK back to promote his show and even had him interact with punk.

edit: and the cena getting fired thing makes it even less about the title because now he's fighting to keep his job, which is a bigger deal than fighting to keep his belt. with cena defending wwe's honor and with his job on the line vs. what can potentially happen if punk wins, i can't really see cena losing.

edit 2: here's the stipulation of the match listed on wiki: Singles match for the WWE Championship. If Punk wins and leaves Chicago with the title, Cena will be fired immediately. the way that's worded makes it seem like cena can lose the match and not get fired, assuming the mitb winner cashes in and saves the day. based on his feud with punk, i'm assuming that person would be rey, especially since rey vs. cena (or rey vs. cena vs. punk) would be a huge summerslam main event.

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From: Viktor Vaughn | #105
ewr is great


love how dgusa always hires kobashi in the first week

i always imagine him chopping flippy dudes out of the air like flies

in the game i'm messing around in, wrestlelicious' top star is toshiaki kawada

the rest of the top five is daffney, ashley lane (madison rayne), lacey von erich, and some chick named josie

imagine that main event scene

edit: the only other guy in the company is trent barretta. i would watch this promotion.

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They missed a trick really. They could have had Zack Ryder replace ADR in the MitB match by saying ADR gets a title shot at Summerslam. Then they could have had Ryder win the MitB, Cena lose to Punk and then Ryder be all like 'I'll save you bro!' after his budding fist pumping friendship with Cena backstage!

Ok so maybe not realistic but even so!

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Crucifying my Oracle average one match at a time

ShatteredElysium posted...
They missed a trick really. They could have had Zack Ryder replace ADR in the MitB match by saying ADR gets a title shot at Summerslam. Then they could have had Ryder win the MitB, Cena lose to Punk and then Ryder be all like 'I'll save you bro!' after his budding fist pumping friendship with Cena backstage!

Ok so maybe not realistic but even so!

This would be the best thing.

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Everybody loves nanomachines.

why does everyone keep fantasy booking mitb ending without punk as champion

i really think you all hate fun

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bad advice
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i wasn't fantasy booking, i was reality booking

i want punk to leave as champion

very badly

but i just don't see it happening

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i do see it happening

because i think that wwe would have to be run by a literal monkey to screw this up

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bad advice
http://img.imgcake.com/viktorpnges.png

My fantasy booking involves Punk walking out with the title, but I just don't see it happening.

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http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7315/ocelotpartycd1.gif
Everybody loves nanomachines.

From: Viktor Vaughn | #137
i do see it happening

because i think that wwe would have to be run by a literal monkey to screw this up

lol like michael hayes would let a monkey anywhere near the book

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The Board 8 Legend Killer
TIMJAB

the number one way wwe can screw this up adr still being in the match AND winning OR taking the pin

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The grouch and the Zangoose.

Hehe, well observer's got an interesting fantasy booking option.

Turn punk babyface and rather than turn Cena heel, you can delfect it by making it Punk vs McMahon.

So even if Punk beats Cena you can have Vince order the MitB winner to cash in, Punk retains and then have McMahon order the other MitB winner to cash in.

They presented it fairly well, but it all depends on the contract situation, really dunno what's gonna happen.

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Vote for this guy in every contest: Sess

the best post

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/218-pro-wrestling-wwe/59647568/662686659

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Lopen posted...
Psh Jakyl's totally going to agree with me when he gets in here. You just watch.

Hah, as I was reading this discussion I kept seeing your side of things more and more and was going to say as much anyway.

I do think in some sense both sides of this argument are right; the Championship looks incredibly important right now, but this angle is not "about" the Championship.

Tim said it very well. CM Punk has no desire to actually "be Champion," he just wants the belt to cause chaos and prove a point. This feud has nothing to do with "Who is the best wrestler on Raw" as any other feud about the title would be. This feud is about WWE fighting for the right to keep their Championship for FUTURE use.

This angle is about the IDEA of what being WWE Champion means, and how that idea is tainted if Punk walks out with it to "defend" it elsewhere and they just crown a new Champ at Summerslam out of vacancy.

Cena needs to win not to prove he is the best, or to keep the belt in WWE (they'd just make a new one and do Cena vs. Del Rio at Summerslam for it and life would go on). He is not fighting for the right to be WWE Champion. He is fighting to keep intact the credibility of the WWE Championship, the richest prize in wrestling history.

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
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From: JaKyL25 | #143
Tim said it very well.

AWWW YEAH EVERYONE CAN SUCK IT

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why am i reading results for a dick togo retirement show

why is this happening

EDIT: Dick Togo will spend one more year wrestling around the world before he retires for good. But for now, his wrestling career in Japan is over.

ok that's not as bad but still

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CM Punk has no desire to actually "be Champion," he just wants the belt to cause chaos and prove a point. This feud has nothing to do with "Who is the best wrestler on Raw"

But Punk stated that he's tired of the idea that John Cena is "the best." He wants to prove both that HE is the best and spite WWE for not recognizing it by taking the title away and proving that they missed the boat with him.

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bad advice
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Viktor Vaughn posted...
CM Punk has no desire to actually "be Champion," he just wants the belt to cause chaos and prove a point. This feud has nothing to do with "Who is the best wrestler on Raw"

But Punk stated that he's tired of the idea that John Cena is "the best." He wants to prove both that HE is the best and spite WWE for not recognizing it by taking the title away and proving that they missed the boat with him.


Yeah, this. He outright states that he doesn't hate Cena, just that Cena is seen as "the best." He wants to show that HE is the best in the world, and will do that by becoming WWE champion. He's said that much. He's just then taking it a step beyond that and basically going "But you can't reap the benefits of having the best as your champion, because I'm leaving as said champion."

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

Well yeah, but the title is kind of irrelevant. He was frustrated that he wasn't considered for promotional stuff like posters and cups and Cena was even though he's (in his eyes, although he's right) the best wrestler in the world and Cena isn't. Vince even outright said last night that Punk isn't worthy of being on promotional stuff.

Punk wants to beat Cena to prove that he's better than him, not necessarily to take his title. He obviously doesn't think having the belt makes you the best because he doesn't have it, Cena does. Having the title on the line is only really there to add to the drama since there is really nothing else of value that Punk can take with him. What else would he do? Show up in ROH and just say "I beat John Cena so I'm the best!" Every heel does that.

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From: StealThisSheen | #147
"I'm going to prove that I'm the best in the world by beating who you THINK is the best. And then when you finally realize I am and embrace that fact... Well, it's too late, because once I'm the best, I'm LEAVING as the best, and you won't be able to argue otherwise."

If he was feuding with anybody but Cena (maybe Orton but even he's iffy) I'd buy this. But Cena is the WWE's golden boy and #1 promotional tool regardless of whether or not he's champion. Punk wanted to be that guy and wants to prove that he should have been.

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TimJab posted...
Well yeah, but the title is kind of irrelevant. He was frustrated that he wasn't considered for promotional stuff like posters and cups and Cena was even though he's (in his eyes, although he's right) the best wrestler in the world and Cena isn't. Vince even outright said last night that Punk isn't worthy of being on promotional stuff.

Punk wants to beat Cena to prove that he's better than him, not necessarily to take his title. He obviously doesn't think having the belt makes you the best because he doesn't have it, Cena does. Having the title on the line is only really there to add to the drama since there is really nothing else of value that Punk can take with him. What else would he do? Show up in ROH and just say "I beat John Cena so I'm the best!" Every heel does that.


No, but the "WWE Universe" does, and that's his argument. He's saying that people "think" Cena's the best because he's champion. So while HE may not necessarily believe it, he knows "everybody" else does, and thus he's gonna spit in their face by winning the title, which is the sign of being the "best," and then leaving with it so nobody can ever say "Well, I'm champion now so I'm better."

EDIT: I mean, hell... Doesn't he, in his mind, already think he beat Cena? Wasn't he bragging about that? Why wouldn't he just stop then if it wasn't about the title/what it represents to WWE fans?

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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