Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: Thrall vs. Morgl, the endless cycle

(+) Yeah! (+)

Paladin secret: When your opponent equips a weapon, gain control of it.
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I tried a variation of the Kibler Hunter that was posted early in the topic as a suggestion for me. The only card in the deck that I don't have is Rat Pack and I wasn't going to waste 800 dust crafting two of them for what I hope are obvious reasons. Anyway even without the Rat Pack, the deck actually did really, really well. I went from the absolute bottom of Rank 20 (with 0 stars) all the way up to Rank 17 without losing a single match. I had a few close ones, specifically against Shaman, but for the most part it was pretty dominant. I think there's a few good reasons for this.

For one thing, the deck is just conceptually on a higher level than what I was trying to do on my own ideas. A great example is how I would combine Hunter's Mark and On The Hunt as a low cost removal. It's only two cards and they are very cheap so this should be good, right? Well... it's good if I draw both of the cards, yes. Kibler's deck explores more dynamic synergy: Hunter's Mark, Dispatch Kodo, Unleash the Hounds, Knife Juggler, Dire Wolf Alpha, etc. etc. The difference being that these cards all involve multiple combinations with each other rather than it just being two cards that go together. Dispatch Kodo or Unleash the Hounds can be used with Hunter's Mark to remove a big minion. Unleash the Hounds can also be used with Dire Wolf Alpha to get a chain of 2 attack hounds which can remove a big taunt. Or you can combine them with Knife Juggler to get a bunch of knives that shoot things randomly. These juggled knives can even be hail mary'd at a Hunter Mark target if you are backed into a corner and have no other options. You can also drop the Kodo beside the Dire Wolf Alpha to blast something for 3 damage instead of 2.
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MariaTaylor posted...

You can also drop the Kodo beside the Dire Wolf Alpha to blast something for 3 damage instead of 2.

Not an interaction I would have thought of.
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That one I have heard of. Honestly between Alleycat/Rat Pack/Kodo, Dire Wolf Alpha is probably nearly an auto-include if you are building Hunter right now. (Unless it's a secret build)
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Camden posted...

MariaTaylor posted...

You can also drop the Kodo beside the Dire Wolf Alpha to blast something for 3 damage instead of 2.

Not an interaction I would have thought of.

it synergizes with Leokk too but that's more rare and less reliable
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The purge monster awaits.

Haven't played much this month. After two months where I've pushed deeper into the ladder than I've ever gone, I've mostly just logged in for quests in March. Unlike most people, that has nothing to do with a stale meta and everything to do with me having other things to look at. However, I got to experience not being able to lose stars at rank 15 a few times last night, which was kinda neat...especially since I had to deal with like 3 egg druids. Egg druids? Seriously? Honestly, as long as I don't mulligan for a jade druid, that deck's usually easy for me to beat, but it's a janky little deck to play when you know you've got nothing on the line, I guess.

how fast is the purge rate on this board?

sidenote; I got to rank 15 with Hunter!
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Made it to Rank 10 with Demon Zoo. I tried to make it so I don't whiff on 1-drops, but even if I do, it's still hilarious to watch people scramble once you hit the gas pedal.

Turn 2 Peddler, Turn 3 Imp Gang Boss, yeah nothing out of the ordinary here.

Turn 4 Bloodfury Potion -> Voidwalker, OK I'm f***ed aren't I
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Seems like about 48 hours.

Drafted my worst deck yet in New Arena, and of course started out 3-0. First time since it went standard where I'm at least going to go .500. To be fair, two of those three games I was losing and topdecked Babbling Book into Firelands Portal, both times killing a 5/5 exactly to bring me back from the brink.
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I think Rank 10 is a realistic goal for this deck, but it probably needs a little bit of refining.

babbling book into firelands portal is a classic hearthstone move...

one of my most fun RNG outcomes so far btw, a Shaman devolved my board but it turned one of my minions into an Addled Grizzly. that was all of his mana so there was nothing he could do about it. he just conceded immediately since my hand was still pretty full of cards and I think he knew I was going to summon at least 3-4 things and gain huge tempo before he killed it. especially since I was already ahead on board to begin with.
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You can get to rank 5 with any half competent deck if you have a decent understanding of the game. Past that point you have to be good to win with non-meta decks, because everyone you play will be competent at the game and they'll be using one of the same five or so net-decks.
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Yeah rank 5 isn't too bad, it's pretty easy to do so long as you have an understanding of the decks you will be facing (I've done this every month since awards without stressing much about it)

5 to Legend is pretty Aggro heavy as it's the bottleneck so you either play a deck that can deal with Aggro pretty well or Aggro itself.
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I don't doubt that 5 is doable, but with the amount of time I spend on the game (a few hours a week, tops) I find it's best to set my expectations lower. I literally might not even play enough games total to reach rank 5 when all is said and done.

that being said I am now at Rank 14 with Hunter!
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i am yet to see the person with the coin lose this brawl.
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I won my first game and I didn't have the coin.

My opponent afk'd
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In my 10+ arena runs on NA, I've yet to break 5 wins.

In my 4 arena runs on EU, I've gone 9-3, 6-3, 12-2, 5-3 (because woo 4 Fireland's Mage).

NA > EU?
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yeah I believe this is known for a while, Stevie. especially confirmed after arena stats were revealed multiple times. asia server is the hardest arena, europe is the weakest. america is average.
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MariaTaylor posted...

yeah I believe this is known for a while, Stevie. especially confirmed after arena stats were revealed multiple times. asia server is the hardest arena, europe is the weakest. america is average.

Oh really? I'm not much of an arena player so I don't follow stats. Pretty crazy how far apart my wins have been though. Averaging like 3 on NA and 8 on EU.

Also I had a Hunter draft with I believe 2 Argent Horseriders, 2 Rat Packs, KC, QS, 2 Houndmaster, and a ton of solid early stat minions, and absolutely coasted to 12 wins. I had the Rat Packs on picks 1 and 2 and instantly thought "yeah 12 wins sounds good".
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Hunter is also a "secretly good" arena class, although it's not really a secret since Kripp has talked about it multiple times. so it probably helps that you were using a class which isn't used much but can succeed even if your individual card quality is a bit low.

sidenote; did you make a new account specifically to access the EU server? that is another contributing factor. your first few runs (it's either 2 or 3, we don't know for sure) give you a match handicap. as a result you're very likely to do better on your first two, possibly three runs on any given account. that would contribute to driving your average up if you've never arena'd with that account before.
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No it's an account that's been around for a while, so no match handicap. And yeah my brother told me about Hunter being able to take advantage of a value-centered arena meta by rushing opponents down, which makes sense.

Speaking of him my brother is apparently pretty good at arena and might hit the end of the month leaderboard which sounds pretty cool.
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neat. I used to play arena almost exclusively but I stopped during the karazhan meta. haven't really gotten back into it yet. now I just play constructed a few hours a week. I hear arena is pretty good right now though and constructed can be a bit frustrating at times. might be the time for me to switch back over. butttt I think I'll want to experience the un'goro meta with a bit of perspective so it might be better for me to continue with constructed and work on my deck building skills.

the first few weeks after a new expansion is always the best time for me. it feels like you see more people being creative on ladder for this window, until they figure out what works and everyone net decks that.
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MariaTaylor posted...

yeah I believe this is known for a while, Stevie. especially confirmed after arena stats were revealed multiple times. asia server is the hardest arena, europe is the weakest. america is average.

The difference should not be more than 1.0 wins, though.

it's a small sample size and there are going to be luck-based variations. if he played 30 matches on each server his average would regress toward the mean of whatever his skill level is. but his EU server would be higher than his NA server.

in the short term? yeah, I could see a competent player losing a handful of games on NA and winning a handful of games on EU... resulting in a heavily skewed average.
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I officially give up on having any idea how to draft the new arena, I need to take a class to understand it now or something. After failing to get to 3 wins in my previous runs, including a couple of decks that honestly seemed pretty stacked to me, I'm taking a Mage deck with one Frostbolt, one Kraken and exactly 28 bleh cards and I'm currently at 8 wins.

MariaTaylor posted...

the first few weeks after a new expansion is always the best time for me. it feels like you see more people being creative on ladder for this window, until they figure out what works and everyone net decks that.

I feel like the first few weeks after Goro, it's going to be pirates, jades and Shamans of all types. But yes, outside of when Old Gods came out I've always enjoyed the immediate aftermath of new cards.
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I don't consider myself a vindictive person but honestly it will be immensely satisfying if shaman ever becomes dumpster tier again in the future.
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The first few weeks after Mean Streets were the most fun I've ever had with the game. I reached Rank 3, which I've yet to beat, and generally enjoyed my time with the game.

It's weird, because I was playing the same decks I'm playing now, and facing the same decks I face now, but it just felt better, likely because it was new. It's why I'm really looking forward to right after the next expansion hits, even if we get similar decks at the top.

Playing with new cards is fun.
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Threw Yogg into my Jade Druid deck. Surprisingly, he's still fantastic.

You basically throw him down when you don't have board and then you get board (and cards).
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I got wrecked by Yogg yesterday. Had Tirion, something with 7 health, and a third minion. I swear Yogg was hand-picking the spells, because he went:

1) Forked Lightning (hit Tirion's shield)
2) Flamestrike
3) Maelstrom Portal

My opponent had an azure drake up, so that completely wiped my board. Only then did Yogg start casting random stupid stuff without consequence, although none of it was negative for the druid.

#IStillBowDown
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Couple things

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20594524/watch-the-winter-championship-3-16-2017

Make sure you pick a champ for free packs! Picking Pavel cause it's the trendy thing to do


Also, Ungoro card reveal stream coming very soon! And by soon I mean 45 minutes
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Explore Un'Guro is such a dumb card that I'm 100% going to play.
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Camden posted...

Explore Un'Guro is such a dumb card that I'm 100% going to play.

Can't wait to cast it off Yogg.
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That Swamp King Dredd display

Beautiful
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So why would you not include the quest package for each class in every deck? I really don't like them forcing these archetypes with quests.
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What are you talking about? This isn't forcing an archetype at all.


If you don't hard commit to discolock, the warlock quest is seems pretty unplayable So it stengthens the discard archetype, but that doesn't mean a warlock deck without it can't be good. I certainly don't see these quests being included in every deck.
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I guess a better way to articulate the issue I have with quests is that they seem mandatory for whatever archetype Blizzard is pushing.

Like if you're going to play a control Priest in the new meta there's no reason to not include the new quest package. So it just feels like it's severely limiting the options for those styles of decks because if you want to play control Priest and don't include this quest you're at a disadvantage.

Likewise if you're going to play a zoo Warlock there's no reason to not put the discard package in. Sure you might not include that package if you're playing a control deck or highlander but it doesn't exactly inspire creative deckbuilding.

I just don't like when Blizzard goes hard on these dumb archetypes because it stifles deckbuilding and ruins classes when the entire expansion is based on 1 mechanic that bombs (Hunter/Paladin)

I think Reno is great design because the effect is powerful but so is the risk. You're sacrificing consistency in your entire deck for one card. What are you sacrificing with these new quests? Putting 7+ deathrattles in your deck isn't going to make anything harder for you. The only thing you're risking is being down a card from turn 1 (and you can even choose to not keep it). Is that a big enough risk? I don't know but my gut says no.
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I picked Pavel last time and it went pretty well for me.
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I am super excited for the warlock discard quest; Discard Warlock has been one of my favorite decks. Though six is a lot...

They said that the quest is guaranteed to be the top card in your deck, so if you're e.g. going first, it'll be the leftmost card, and the other two cards in your hand will be entirely random. They also said you can mulligan the quest away, which is coo'. It's not just a free bonus card, so it doesn't have to be in every deck.

In other news, a seven-mana 9/9: because 4-mana 7/7 wasn't meme-ee enough. That card terrifies me already.

Edit: Kazakus Warlock is still going to be a deck, for instance. They're not going to be running the Warlock quest. Dragon Priest (which I'm assuming will survive to some extent) isn't going to play the Priest quest. You could do a Priest Control deck that doesn't want to run enough deathrattles to justify it. Current Zoo Warlock builds don't have enough discards to play the discard quest. Et cetera~
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skull_bonek23 posted...

Likewise if you're going to play a zoo Warlock there's no reason to not put the discard package in. Sure you might not include that package if you're playing a control deck or highlander but it doesn't exactly inspire creative deckbuilding.

Not true! A theoretical Zoo Warlock deck might not run that card because for Zoo style, playing Flame Imp on turn 1 could just be better. I think the problem would be Standard not having the support for a traditional Zoo playstyle to compete with this (especially with PO gone). But in Wild, this is a new archetype. The discard Taunt card makes me think they're trying to make it a distinct archetype in Standard, too. In a way, your complaint is really about the Standard card pool. With cards leaving, there's always less decks to build and new, powerful cards edge out older stuff that can't compete.

I think you're right on Priest and it's much more of a no-brainer to include in your deck, but you can still go Reno-style with the quest as a replacement Reno or just all-in on Deathrattle Priest trying to trigger the quest ASAP and live to play N'zoth or something. Or both if you're super greedy! It does look like that Quest is gonna go in every Priest deck, but with dragons leaving the alternative is probably no Priest decks.

On another note, new Elise is hilarious. I love it.
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Yeah New Elise is fantastic and will probably be played in several control decks
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Update: I have just beaten my first Hunter in ranked play since the last expansion.

Rank 9 with Dragon Priest, and it wasn't very close. Feels good.
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I can't speak for all Hunters, but the Hunter deck I've been playing gets WRECKED by Dragon Priest
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MariaTaylor posted...

I can't speak for all Hunters, but the Hunter deck I've been playing gets WRECKED by Dragon Priest

I know that it's kind of unbelievable, and that generally it was pretty absurd considering the state of Hunter, but after I had lost over 10 in a row against them, I couldn't help but laugh and start recording the matchup.

I should be winning with decks like Dragon Priest, but for what was about three months I somehow managed to draw terribly in every game against Hunters, at every rank. It feels good to finally get that odd, unecessary monkey off my back.
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yeah it's almost hard to even imagine. for me it feels completely the opposite. when I queue into Dragon Priest I know that I've already lost. even if I draw as well as I can possibly draw there's still nothing I can do. they put too much stuff on the board and it's too hard for me to remove it. I can't get anything on the board because they can keep killing it and healing their own stuff. plus taunts for days blocking the face. if by some miracle I get some damage in early on I still can't even close the distance with my hero power and maximum burn, because they just heal themselves while I'm waiting to put my hand together... or kill me in the meantime with their board full of minions.
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Dragon Priest is pretty great on ladder right now. Other than Warlock, which isn't as bad as a matchup as it used to be, there isn't a single class I see that has me thinking "Yeah, this is over".

I feel like every game is winnable, and a bunch of my losses come from me somehow not drawing a Dragon for 4-5 turns, which, despite me running a whole bunch of Dragons, happens more often than you think. It ends up being pretty infuriating because I know these games are winnable with a half decent draw.
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New cards seem interesting. Glad they seem to be trying out new mechanics.
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Can the new Elise give you any cards from Goro or is it limited to your class and neutral?

The cards all look good/fun/unique/interesting/notcompletelyterrible except for Sherazin. Four cards in one turn just to get a 5/3? I'm not even sure it would be good if it was four cards over any number of turns...
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Camden posted...

Four cards in one turn just to get a 5/3?

It's a 4-mana 5/3 as a base. That already makes it playable in limited, though certainly not good. You're probably never going to get it back there, but four cards in a turn is something Rogue does all the time. Plus, with the loss of Tomb Pillager, that deck is looking for a 4-drop.

Speaking of limited, just went 12-2 as Warlock~! Having a great early game (three 1-drops and five 2-drops) into two blastcrystals, a siphon soul, Ragnaros and a kraken does that for you.

deck mvp was, of course, the Coldlight Oracle that I cringed whenever I saw, and repeatedly hero powered or passed turn rather than play.
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Camden posted...

Can the new Elise give you any cards from Goro or is it limited to your class and neutral?

It's any card. Both a Hunter and a Rogue legendary were in the pack opened on stream. Don't even remember the base class.
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The example had them playing Warrior and it gave a hunter legendary, rogue legendary, and paladin card.

While they might have done that just to show off specific cards, I think it's pretty likely it can give you any classes cards.

They said it guarantees an epic and a legendary too, which would be pretty static if it was only neutral and your class cards.
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