Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Rikku, Tira, Yu Narukami, Doomguy, Bass.EXE vs. Ryu

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rikku, Tira, Yu Narukami, Doomguy and Bass.EXE have challenged Ryu to a fight! Location of the fight: Suzaku Castle Rooftop - Moonlight is the only source of illumination in this fairly confined area where Ryu trains...and fights, as seen in Street Fighter 3. Access to the interior of the castle is prohibited but fighters may battle around the snow covered grasslands surrounding the castle freely. Attackers and defenders will start separated an equal distance from each other, as seen in SF3.. Which side will win?

Guidelines
- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting
- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

Kefka has been slain and has taken magic itself with him. Rikku's team will be unable to use magic for today's battle.

Rikku is as she appears in Final Fantasy X, equipped with Godhand and a Tercio without SOS Reflect. She has access to her own sphere grid. She has brought 5 each of Al Bhed Potion, Stamina Tablet, Mana Tablet, Chocobo Feather, and Light Curtain to battle and can use any combination of them with Use or her Mix Overdrive, provided sufficient Overdrive has been built. She may freely switch to her Persona Vishnu, as it appears in Persona 4, who has only their natural non-passive skills and elemental affinities. She comes into battle piloting Weltall Id, as it appears in Xenogears.

Tira is as she appears in Soul Calibur V, with access to all her moves, although she must charge her Critical Edge/Brave Edge moves before using them. She may freely switch to her Persona Loki, as it appears in Persona 4, who has only their natural non-passive skills and elemental affinities

Yu Narukami (MC) is as he appears in Persona 4. He has the persona Izanagi available, with all default skills from P4 learned in addition to all the moves from Persona 4 Arena, with the exception of his mortal blow or gameplay mechanics (invincibility frames, etc). He also can freely switch to his persona Thor, who only has their natural non-passive skills and elemental affinities. Null Physical is not available.
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Doomguy is as seen in Doom II. He comes to battle carrying a Pistol, Chainsaw, Chaingun, and Shotgun. He has used a Berserker Pack at the start of the match, giving him a massive strength boost and making him berserked for the first 30 seconds of the fight, however he will not be able to use any weapons but his fists during this time.

Bass.EXE is as he appears in the Megaman Battle Network series, with access to all the moves and properties of his Omega forms, though if any of his barriers/auras is destroyed, he loses access to all of them for the rest of the fight. He can operate here same as he does on the Net. He has also inhaled Lilith from Borderlands 2, gaining a set of moves fitting her. Whenever Bass.EXE receives a buff any parameters of it (i. e. duration, potency) are doubled.

~VS~

Ryu is as he appears in the Street Fighter series with all his moves minus gameplay mechanics, though his supers/ultras need to be charged.

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"The answer lies in the heart of battle". FIGHT!
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@Lopen
@Mewtwo59

The floor is yours.
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everyone but rikku
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Ryu gives in to his satsui no hado
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Argument:

So I think Doomguy probably gets to Ryu first, cause you know, he's berserked. I don't know how Ryu does. I think I lean Doomguy because of the massive strength boost.

Rikku flies Weltall Id to gravy's house to tear down all his Fei Fong Wong hentai posters.

BASS probably shoots Ryu if he wins against Doomguy..
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team not ryu
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V close match.
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Tira SOLOS.
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zzzzzzz
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FFDragon posted...

zzzzzzz

Don't blame me blame Mewtwo for giving up. Vaguely debatable match here if he hadn't rolled over imo
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Dantezoid posted...

Ryu gives in to his satsui no hado

Is he allowed to achieve it? If so kinda down with this, Bass is the only threat to him with no magic available.
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MenuWars posted...

Dantezoid posted...

Ryu gives in to his satsui no hado

Is he allowed to achieve it? If so kinda down with this, Bass is the only threat to him with no magic available.

Certainly not the giant continent destroying mech Rikku is piloting.
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mech pilot Rikku
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Doesn't Weltal operate on magic? I forget Xenogears law slightly, but I'm pretty sure it does.
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lol
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MenuWars posted...

Doesn't Weltal operate on magic? I forget Xenogears law slightly, but I'm pretty sure it does.

No. Spoilers for Xenogears below.

Weltall is a gigantic channel for the power of the Zohar Modifier, a worldwide generator of infinite energy that entraps the Wave Existence and empowers every fancy thing you see in the game. Ether attacks? Zohar. Gears except the Xenogear? Zohar. Bosses? Zohar. You can call it 'magic' for simplicity but Xenogears is completely sci-fi. None of the ether attacks would cease to work due to their origin, and neither would Weltall. The only discussion is if Weltall retains 'Id mode' when not piloted by Id, but even the base Weltall Fei Fong Wong uses, and which other people have managed to pilot, is something Ryu just can't defeat.
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Yu SOLOS
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I'm fairly certain ether just enhances the mechs and they run off fuel.

Not that ether is necessarily magic anyway, nor would it necessarily be considered using magic to pilot one. And not that Yu Tira and Doomguy couldn't win easily via non magical methods anyway.
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MenuWars posted...

Doesn't Weltal operate on magic? I forget Xenogears law slightly, but I'm pretty sure it does.

yeah, i could at least see the argument that gears won't work w/o magic

Rikku not being here at all wouldn't change my vote though
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I buy it, rofl stomp for Weltal Rikku and Bass it is then
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Lopen posted...

I'm fairly certain ether just enhances the mechs and they run off fuel.

Not that ether is necessarily magic anyway, nor would it necessarily be considered using magic to pilot one. And not that Yu Tira and Doomguy couldn't win easily via non magical methods anyway.

JeezyMiyagi posted...

MenuWars posted...

Doesn't Weltal operate on magic? I forget Xenogears law slightly, but I'm pretty sure it does.

yeah, i could at least see the argument that gears won't work w/o magic

Rikku not being here at all wouldn't change my vote though

We actually see what happens when the Zohar goes kaput - the gears just plain don't work. It still doesn't matter because 'I draw power from a fifth-dimensional being' isn't 'magic'. It's bullshit, sure, but not 'magic' in the sense of 'Kuja casts Flare Star' or whatever.
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Kamekguy posted...

Yu SOLOS

without magic? lol no.
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Well that's good to know. At least I learned something today.
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Yu Solos
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Yu is still pretty capable without magic, as I wouldn't consider the Persona as a whole "magic." Thor has a good amount of physical techs, and he's pretty legit in P4 arena without even having Persona attacks.
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And also Persona users totally don't have high school durability and don't instantly die to gunfire.

I am sorry this is a year old argument, carry on.
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I'd consider the very summoning of personas magic to be quite honest. It's irrelevant, because Ryu's fucked regardless but I don't buy that argument at all.
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Lopen posted...

And not that Yu Tira and Doomguy couldn't win easily via non magical methods anyway.

to be fair, that's entirely because of Doomguy.
2 on 1, no magic, Ryu beats the other two.
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MenuWars posted...

I'd consider the very summoning of personas magic to be quite honest. It's irrelevant, because Ryu's fucked regardless but I don't buy that argument at all.

It's not, btw.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

MenuWars posted...

I'd consider the very summoning of personas magic to be quite honest. It's irrelevant, because Ryu's fucked regardless but I don't buy that argument at all.

It's not, btw.

Bollocks.
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Consider how powerful personas make random high schoolers at base.

Consider Tira is kicking the ass of Yukiko or Kanji in a straight up fight when they don't have personas, and what a Persona turns high schoolers into, and I absolutely think she takes Ryu 1v1 here.
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Lopen posted...

Yu is still pretty capable without magic

wait wait wait
you (and others) have shit on guys like Crono for lack of experience and whatever, yet want to praise Yu here? the threats he's faced are vastly inferior to the ones Crono did. Yu vs. Crono should be a flat out win for Crono. he's faced better, stronger enemies, is faster, travels with (and presumably trained with) people with far more experience, etc. if you go no magic for both, Crono should win that fight even easier.
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Oh with magic this is an absurd rofl stomp I concur, even without it now that we know weltal isn't affected, but I think the bonding of a persona is very magical indeed, and I think Ryu, especially satsui no hado Ryu, kicks the ever loving piss out of Tira.
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I have never shit on Crono for lack of experience.

I've shit on him for his stuff just not looking very impressive. Yu in p4arena definitely looks a lot more impressive than Crono.
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Confuse alone is more impressive than anything Yu's done considering it gives Crono afterimages and the text explaining it is that he's moving so fast it's like he's slicing four times at once.

but by plot alone, he faced a bigger threat than anyone did in P3 or P4 and won.
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MenuWars posted...

I'd consider the very summoning of personas magic to be quite honest. It's irrelevant, because Ryu's fucked regardless but I don't buy that argument at all.

Persona very specifically splits the two to say what's magic and what isn't. Using a traditional "magic" attack takes up SP, whereas summoning a Persona for a physical attack takes HP.

The act of it taking HP makes it more akin to a "chi" type deal, which is different than magic in even the Street Fighter universe.

Thus, using a Persona for a physical attack definitely doesn't seem like it'd count as magic.

EDIT: Using a Persona is basically the same thing as Ryu throwing a Hadouken. Now, it's fair to say the Personas can't use their magic attacks, however, but...
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Why does the act of summoning something make it more like Chi? Just because it doesn't use SP doesn't make it any less of a magical force... and the bond created between the person and persona is clearly inherently magical in nature.
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Seeing as we're jumping the shark and going in random directions with the Crono stuff, is Ken from the Fist of the Northstar available in Mercs? He's been in a game now.
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the argument is that persona themselves are magical creatures, not that the techniques are used for it. what you're forgetting is that that the user needs to summon Persona. for P3, the Evoker completes the summoning ritual to do so. P4, the TV universe is what allows them to make it work. both ways, you've got a magical process to summon the thing in the first place, therefore no magic = no persona.
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Chrono Trigger is really gratuitous with after images. It's hard to take them very seriously as an indicator of speed especially considering how slow some of the techs with em look. And it's not SNES limitations-- FF6 and plenty of others have stuff that looks a lot faster with em.

Yu on the other hand has stuff in P4 arena that looks impressive even without hyping afterimages
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I forget, doesn't Sho Minazuki have afterimages even though he explicitly doesn't have a persona? And Yu beats him in a mano a mano? I need to refresh on PUMA's story.
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Crono sticking his sword straight through the Dragon Tank is more physically impressive than anything Yu does.
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Wanglicious posted...

the argument is that persona themselves are magical creatures, not that the techniques are used for it. what you're forgetting is that that the user needs to summon Persona. for P3, the Evoker completes the summoning ritual to do so. P4, the TV universe is what allows them to make it work. both ways, you've got a magical process to summon the thing in the first place, therefore no magic = no persona.

There's nothing magic about the Evoker. The Evoker is literally a fake gun. All it does is put them under the mental stress needed to summon the Persona from within. And in P4AU, they can summon them outside of the TV.
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If I recall Arena's story correctly Yu actually loses to Labrys, then Aigis kicks her ass to save him. He's pretty much made out to be a step below P3 Guy in combat (actually all of the P3 folks are implied to be a step above the P4 bunch just due to experience)
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MenuWars posted...

Why does the act of summoning something make it more like Chi? Just because it doesn't use SP doesn't make it any less of a magical force... and the bond created between the person and persona is clearly inherently magical in nature.

...There's no magical bond. The Persona literally, quite literally, comes from inside of them. That's why it says they "Awakened to an inner power." You know, like chi. >_>
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Losing to Labrys is not shameful. She'd kick Crono's ass too
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StealThisSheen posted...

MenuWars posted...

Why does the act of summoning something make it more like Chi? Just because it doesn't use SP doesn't make it any less of a magical force... and the bond created between the person and persona is clearly inherently magical in nature.

...There's no magical bond. The Persona literally, quite literally, comes from inside of them. That's why it says they "Awakened to an inner power." You know, like chi. >_>

...and that inner power is fucking magical. If I'm sitting in a book store and some dude explodes with energy and Thor appears, I'm not gonna go, man this guys Chi is really strong, I'm gonna go holy fuck that's magic.
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MenuWars posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

MenuWars posted...

Why does the act of summoning something make it more like Chi? Just because it doesn't use SP doesn't make it any less of a magical force... and the bond created between the person and persona is clearly inherently magical in nature.

...There's no magical bond. The Persona literally, quite literally, comes from inside of them. That's why it says they "Awakened to an inner power." You know, like chi. >_>

...and that inner power is fucking magical. If I'm sitting in a book store and some dude explodes with energy and Thor appears, I'm not gonna go, man this guys Chi is really strong, I'm gonna go holy fuck that's magic.

So then Ryu's Hadouken is magic?
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It's a lot less magical than summoning something from another dimension, and considering it's described explicitly as an energy source derived from inner strength I'd say no. But hell if it'll stop the innate madness you're talking sure.
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