Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 4: The Happening (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lang is finally out of the line count basement

Now poor Gregory has to wait another game to move out of last place. Then it'll probably belong to Polly forever.
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Are you planning to count Orla? Or does Orla have more lines than I remember.
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I think Orla probably has more "lines" than Polly because she's present during every segment of the case.
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also they make her sing that song a lot
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I think my ultimate curiosity in E1-3 is seeing how many lines Shih-na has.
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Oldbag's testimony in E1-3 is one of the only ones in the series where you press every statement, do some other things, and then come back to the exact same testimony a little bit later. Pretty sure the only other ones are Redd White's last testimony in 1-2 and Stickler's testimony in 4-2.
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I like Lang as an opponent because he's unorthodox compared to your usual "rival" character. He doesn't care about following the letter of the law or about providing motives or direct evidence (and he never really challenges Edgeworth to do the same). He's just really good at coming up with plausible scenarios, and he can adjust his theories on the fly very well.
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a reverse phoenix

he has faith in his client

to be guilty
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LeonhartFour posted...

Oldbag's testimony in E1-3 is one of the only ones in the series where you press every statement, do some other things, and then come back to the exact same testimony a little bit later. Pretty sure the only other ones are Redd White's last testimony in 1-2 and Stickler's testimony in 4-2.

De Killer's first testimony in 2-4 before "naming his client."
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kevwaffles posted...

De Killer's first testimony in 2-4 before "naming his client."

Nope. You never go back to that testimony once you're done with it. He just makes you run around in circles to get him to say it.
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There's a weird situation in E1-3 where if you try to present Deacon's pendant to Lauren, Edgeworth will say he doesn't want to show it to her so she won't ramble again. I get that they don't want her reacting to it just yet, but it's strange that they don't just have the default response instead of coming up with a special piece of dialogue just to prevent her from seeing it. I suppose it's a bit more realistic than to have her fail to react to something she would clearly react to though.
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Presenting Lauren with the photo of the body is probably my favorite investigation present in the series

Paratroopa1 posted...

Presenting Lauren with the photo of the body is probably my favorite investigation present in the series

it's pretty amazing yes

I love Lauren's crazy ramblings
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Also, E1-3 Middle complete. Cameos galore here, whether directly (Ema, Oldbag, Chief of Detectives), obscurely (the Bellboy), or indirectly (Viola).
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LeonhartFour posted...

kevwaffles posted...

De Killer's first testimony in 2-4 before "naming his client."

Nope. You never go back to that testimony once you're done with it. He just makes you run around in circles to get him to say it.

Oh, I see what you mean now.
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Hey Leon since you are doing this thing there is something I am curious about
I always thought that the 3DS games were much longer than the DS games for some reason (even without the DLC cases)
I am not sure if it's because of just..more text, or because of animations or maybe I am just crazy
I just want to know how the number of lines differ between the games
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leon isn't really measuring the number of words, since line count is strongly influenced by how much people interrupt each other (and as a result, stuff like having an assistant can pad case lengths)

if you were around last year, he did a playthrough where he recorded how many hours it took to go through each case, the 3DS cases (and AAI2) obviously had longer playtimes in general - each non-epic investigation case would be longer than the last, essentially.
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AAI2 has the longest average case length in the series. It's just as long as DD despite having one fewer case.
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yeah, AAI2 is long. though all of its cases are "full" cases aside from arguably E2-1 - AA5 has three cases that aren't full-length.

unrelated thought: it's kinda weird that E2-4 winds up being shorter than cases 2 and 3 given its stakes.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

yeah, AAI2 is long. though all of its cases are "full" cases aside from arguably E2-1 - AA5 has three cases that aren't full-length.

5-4 and 5-5 are full cases. Trying to argue they aren't simply because one directly leads into the next is nonsense. You might as well say E2-4 isn't a full case if that's your reasoning.
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they're obviously different in format from a regular case - each has fewer than 2 investigations and 2 trials

also 5-4 doesn't even end with the mystery solved; it doesn't leave you on a cliffhanger with the killer getting away like the way E1-4 or 3-4 does
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so is 6-2 a full case or not

"different format" =/= "not a full case"
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I always felt like 5-4 wasn't a "full case" on the basis that it ends without knowing the culprit or understanding the crime, and leads directly into another case in which you learn that.

There are other cases involving two separate trials - 3-2, 6-3 - and no-one considers them as two cases. Unless you're defining things as "all cases are created equal, and if the game says it's a case, it's a case", then 5-4/5-5 being one long case is a very arguable perspective.
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AA6 is weird because they turned one-day investigation/trials into the norm (as 6-3 and especially 6-5 move into double-case territory). 6-6 is the only traditional 2-day trial in it. I wouldn't count 6-1 or 6-4 as full-length cases.

nonetheless 5-4 is the only case that doesn't resolve the key mystery behind it. 5-4 and 5-5 the two together tell the sort of story that 1-5 does.
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6-3 and 6-5 are both two separate trials.

I think there's basically only trial-only cases and full cases. I don't want to muddy the waters by trying to throw in other stuff between those two.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

nonetheless 5-4 is the only case that doesn't resolve the key mystery behind it.

E2-4 doesn't either. You catch the killer of Jill Crane, but the key mystery is the Mastermind who abducted Kay and set the whole thing up, and you don't solve that at all.
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although I'm realizing this is just SD trying to make a meager justification of AAI2's absurd length because of how much he complains about how long the newer games are while simultaneously hailing AAI2 as the best game (also while lamenting why more AA games can't be like PW1 even though AAI2 is the most unlike PW1 in the series)

what a walking contradiction
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E2-4 is helped by that relative brevity. it might be the last case that wasn't overlong? like, even 6-4 is a bit of a tragedy lengthwise. that case feels like it should be maybe 90 minutes but ends up being closer to 3 hours.
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Yeah, that's true. I think 5-4 is pretty brisk, too, though, but most post-Takumi games have pacing problems.

well technically we got AAI2 after DD here so I guess you're right
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"Lance Amano! I propose that you killed Mr. Deacon with the revolver in the haunted house!"

A+ Clue reference

also I like how they go rapid-fire testimonies between Lauren, Lang, and Lance here at the end
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LeonhartFour posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

nonetheless 5-4 is the only case that doesn't resolve the key mystery behind it.

E2-4 doesn't either. You catch the killer of Jill Crane, but the key mystery is the Mastermind who abducted Kay and set the whole thing up, and you don't solve that at all.

Catching Blaise (and thus resolving most of Courtney's character arc) is pretty damn big.

5-4 resolves significantly less than any other case conclusion and I dunno why you're so resistant to that fact. If the game called 5-4 and 5-5 one case, we wouldn't even consider separating them; they're joined significantly more tightly than are the two parts of 6-5.
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NeoElfboy posted...

5-4 resolves significantly less than any other case conclusion and I dunno why you're so resistant to that fact.

I don't think I ever denied it. I've said multiple times it has an unorthodox structure. The thing I've been resistant to is this idea that it's less of a case because of it. I think 5-4's a pretty darn good case with an excellent climax (which is what you're here for), so I don't really like when people try to detract from it solely because it has an unusual ending (and the unusual ending is a plus in my book, not a minus).
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I like that the most talking Shih-na does in E1-3 is when you talk to her during the Haunted House simulation and they talk about Little Thief.
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I enjoy the irony of Lang talking about how there's a corrupt prosecutor working together with Ernest Amano and the smuggling ring as Portsman's standing right there

also Buddy Faith has the fewest number of words in the series for anyone who actually speaks in the series

"Yeah."
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LeonhartFour posted...

NeoElfboy posted...

5-4 resolves significantly less than any other case conclusion and I dunno why you're so resistant to that fact.

I don't think I ever denied it. I've said multiple times it has an unorthodox structure. The thing I've been resistant to is this idea that it's less of a case because of it. I think 5-4's a pretty darn good case with an excellent climax (which is what you're here for), so I don't really like when people try to detract from it solely because it has an unusual ending (and the unusual ending is a plus in my book, not a minus). I've always thought that 5-4 is plenty capable of standing on its own merits, and apparently, the developers thought so, too, since they chose to separate it from 5-5 to begin with.

Oh, to be clear, I like 5-4 quite a bit: good mystery, Yuri is great, the space station switch is a fun plot twist, etc. But it often feels like it needs an asterisk when discussing it compared to other full cases.

It's possible the writers thought that it deserved to stand alone... but it's also possible it was a marketing decision to avoid a "this game only has four cases, not worthy of being a full-price 3DS game!" from certain corners of the internet. (I know someone who was turned off of Apollo Justice by that. I think it's silly, but it might have been a real concern for the devs.)
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I mean they could've just made another trial-only case like they did with SoJ if that was an actual concern
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5-4 feels compromised by its unresolved ending -- though if I had to pick out a flaw, it's the overly complicated 'how did this happen?' with the space station switch. I think the cross examination with Yuri is probably the best in the series but I can't say any of the actual 'how did this happen?' details are satisfying.
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Eh, I don't think the space station switch is all that complicated. The details just get convoluted because Cosmos is a shameless liar.

also 5-4's cliffhanger is an absolute top tier WHAT moment so it isn't compromised by that at all in my opinion
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well, by which I mean that it can't totally stand on its own merits. it relies on 5-5.
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Eh, I disagree. 5-5 gives it complete context, of course, but I don't think that actually diminishes it. There are other cases in the series that need another case to give it fuller context (3-1 and 3-4 both need each other and 3-5, for instance), too. The fact that 5-4 ends the way it does is what makes that cliffhanger so effective. It's unique, but it's not insufficient or unsubstantial.
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it's a good moment, no doubt. but it's good in the way that, say, Lamiroir's 4-3 day 1 fingering of Daryan is. (that's a bad example since 4-3 is a bad case, but I think you know what I mean,)
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Yeah, it's similar to that, but Lamiroir's doesn't come after you're still reeling from getting a Not Guilty without catching the killer for the first time ever. 5-4 totally plays with your expectations in a really effective way.
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I think 6-3 might be better at that with the guilty verdict. you get to the bottom of it within the context of the case as opposed to a wide detour with the kidnapping/UR-1.
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Eh, 6-3 undermines the effectiveness of the shock within minutes of it happening. That guilty verdict is essentially meaningless because it doesn't have any practical effect on the case. Phoenix still gets to wander freely and investigate like nothing happened. 5-5 gives 5-4 its complete context, sure, but 5-4 allows 5-5 to exist at all.
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Honestly, the better parallel with 5-4's ending is the way 3-2 day 1 ends, because the game is screwing with your expectations by giving you a larceny case where no one dies and you get a Not Guilty for Ron in one day and then BAM murder
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Total lines by character:

1. Phoenix Wright - 15074
2. Miles Edgeworth - 5978
3. Maya Fey - 4441
4. The Judge - 3845
5. Dick Gumshoe - 2768
6. Franziska von Karma - 1654
7. Mia Fey - 1418
8. Ema Skye - 1179
9. Pearl Fey - 1035
10. Godot - 902
11. Larry Butz - 683
12. Kay Faraday - 638
13. Dahlia Hawthorne - 578
14. Wendy Oldbag - 491
15. Adrian Andrews - 459
16. Lotta Hart - 437
17. The Judge's Brother - 421
18. Bikini - 351
19. Will Powers - 329
20. Lawrence "Moe" Curls - 320
21. Manfred von Karma - 316
22. Winston Payne - 299
23. Luke Atmey - 292
24. Damon Gant - 285
25. Calisto Yew/Shih-na - 279
26. Ini Miney - 275
27. Angel Starr - 272
28. Ron DeLite - 269
29. Rhoda Teneiro - 267
30. Shi-Long Lang - 263
31. Maggey Byrde - 257
32. Jake Marshall - 257
33. Jean Armstrong - 251
34. Lana Skye - 249
35. Victor Kudo - 247
36. Tyrell Badd - 242
37. Marvin Grossberg - 234
38. Shelly de Killer - 219
39. Maximillion Galactica - 203
40. Ben & Trilo Quist - 200
41. Ken "Acro" Dingling - 182
42. Mike Meekins - 182
43. Iris - 181
44. Furio Tigre - 176
45. Matt Engarde - 171
46. Cammy Meele - 168
47. Morgan Fey - 165
48. Redd White - 162
49. Regina Berry - 151
50. Dee Vasquez - 148
51. Zinc Lablanc - 145
52. Trilo Quist - 140
53. Desiree DeLite - 139
54. Cody Hackins - 135
55. Lauren Paups - 129
56. Richard Wellington - 107
57. April May - 104
58. Yanni Yogi - 98
59. Lance Amano - 92
60. Penny Nichols - 86
61. Viola Cadaverini - 80
62. Terry Fawles - 74
63. The Bellboy - 72
64. Director Hotti - 71
65. Ernest Amano - 68
66. Benjamin Woodman - 60
67. Sal Manella - 59
68. Frank Sahwit - 58
69. Chief of Detectives - 55
70. Lisa Basil - 46
71. Turner Grey - 39
72. Elise Deauxnim - 30
73. Polly - 20
74. Gregory Edgeworth - 5

Overall total lines - 51894

Total lines by segment:

E1-3 End - 953
E1-3 Beginning - 744
E1-3 Middle - 715

Total lines by case:

2-4 - 5946
1-5 - 5913
3-5 - 5815
3-2 - 4151
3-3 - 4063
2-3 - 3884
1-4 - 3466
2-2 - 3119
E1-4 - 2935
1-3 - 2741
E1-3 - 2412
E1-2 - 1995
1-2 - 1773
3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
2-2 - 899
1-1 - 389

Total lines by character per case:

The Kidnapped Turnabout (E1-3)

1. Miles Edgeworth - 1059 (43.91%)
2. Kay Faraday - 539 (22.35%)
3. Shi-Long Lang - 260 (10.78%)
4. Lauren Paups - 129 (5.35%)
5. Lance Amano - 92 (3.81%)
6. Ernest Amano - 65 (2.69%)
7. Dick Gumshoe - 61 (2.53%)
8. Mike Meekins - 54 (2.24%)
9. Wendy Oldbag - 48 (1.99%)
10. Other - 30
11. Ema Skye - 29
12. Shih-na - 23
13. The Bellboy - 15
14. Jacques Portsman - 5
15. Chief of Detectives - 2
16. Buddy Faith - 1

Total lines by character per game:

Ace Attorney Investigations

1. Miles Edgeworth - 3323
2. Franziska von Karma - 736
3. Kay Faraday - 638
4. Dick Gumshoe - 505
5. Calisto Yew/Shih-na - 279
6. Rhoda Teneiro - 267
7. Shi-Long Lang - 263
8. Tyrell Badd - 242
9. Cammy Meele - 168
10. Zinc Lablanc - 145
11. The Judge - 132
12. Lauren Paups - 129
13. Other - 122
14. Lance Amano - 92
15. Ernest Amano - 68
16. Manfred von Karma - 68
17. Mike Meekins - 54
18. Wendy Oldbag - 48
19. Ema Skye - 29
20. The Bellboy - 15
21. Jacques Portsman - 5
22. Mack Rell - 5
23. Byrne Faraday - 2
24. Chief of Detectives - 2
25. Manny Coachen - 2
26. Sal Manella - 2
27. Buddy Faith - 1
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Most lines per case:

Phoenix Wright (2-4) - 2194
Phoenix Wright (1-5) - 2032
Phoenix Wright (3-5) - 1570
Phoenix Wright (3-3) - 1476
Phoenix Wright (3-2) - 1433
Phoenix Wright (2-2) - 1370
Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 1328
Phoenix Wright (2-3) - 1236
Phoenix Wright (1-4) - 1211
Phoenix Wright (1-3) - 1117
Miles Edgeworth (E1-3) - 1059
Miles Edgeworth (E1-2) - 936
Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 812
Mia Fey (3-4) - 436
Mia Fey (3-1) - 396
Phoenix Wright (2-1) - 329
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 135

Highest percentage of lines per case:

Miles Edgeworth (E1-2) - 46.92%
Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 45.80%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 45.25%
Phoenix Wright (2-2) - 43.92%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-3) - 43.91%
Phoenix Wright (1-3) - 40.75%
Phoenix Wright (2-4) - 36.90%
Phoenix Wright (2-1) - 36.60%
Phoenix Wright (3-3) - 36.33%
Mia Fey (3-4) - 35.59%
Phoenix Wright (1-4) - 34.94%
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 34.70%
Phoenix Wright (3-2) - 34.52%
Phoenix Wright (1-5) - 34.36%
Mia Fey (3-1) - 33.93%
Phoenix Wright (2-3) - 31.82%
Phoenix Wright (3-5) - 27.00%
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LeonhartFour posted...

Eh, 6-3 undermines the effectiveness of the shock within minutes of it happening. That guilty verdict is essentially meaningless because it doesn't have any practical effect on the case. Phoenix still gets to wander freely and investigate like nothing happened. 5-5 gives 5-4 its complete context, sure, but 5-4 allows 5-5 to exist at all.

Yeah, the 6-3 guilty verdict is just SoJ being stupidly overdramatic as it so loves to be. It's extra insulting because it comes after a terrible string of testimony for the prosecution, and it's totally irrelevant because for some reason Phoenix is allowed to investigate freely with the princess in tow and no armed guards, like c'mon. The case would be strictly improved by removing that verdict, both for believability and pacing reasons.
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hey now

Nayna is there too
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