Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 5: The Pursuit (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Deid Mann was a great name

you picked the wrong E1-4 victim to tout as a terrible name
---

Reached the E2-3 Middle checkpoint. I think E2-3 and E2-5 are the only AAI cases where every segment has a save checkpoint.
---

Dover's body appearing in the fountain followed by the sculptures melting in the present like they did in the past is when E2-3 gets real
---

I like how Gregory says at one point that he's lived a long life

just a reminder that 34 in video game age is practically on death's door (well I guess in Gregory's case it's true)

also he talks about how he's confident in his hairstyle today before taking the picture with Ray even though he's wearing a hat
---

so Delicia says part of Dover's lyre was salty

the lyre was salty because Gustavia shaved off the part of the rock salt lamp that had his blood on it

ergo Delicia ate Gustavia's blood
---

I don't really get why they didn't just make Gregory a bit older. He's pretty close to my age and I can't imagine anyone my age saying something like that. And he doesn't even have the excuse of living in a fantasy setting like many video game characters - AA is basically supposed to be a (zany) take on our world.
---

well he already had an established age from PW1
---

(He's fallen as silent as a stone.

A rather large stone.)

probably Gregory's best one-liner
---

E2-3 Middle complete

Gregory had a small advantage over Miles in line count in that segment. The past portion of E2-3 took up approximately 1700 lines (didn't get an exact count because it didn't occur to me to try to count the line totals between the two at first).

also Miles isn't even top 3 in line count at this point in the case

I feel very confident he'll be #1 by the end now that I know how many he needs to pass Gregory
---

It occurs to me that Ray must do really well in E2-3

Miles was behind someone besides Gregory and Ray? Wow.
---

NeoElfboy posted...

Miles was behind someone besides Gregory and Ray? Wow.

Going to take a stab at this and say Badd.

Wait, maybe not Badd, he is an investigation partner and guy you cross-examine but he's not in the future so that seems odd. Delicia maybe? I actually don't know.

Badd is correct. He has a bigger role in this case than I remembered. Line distribution for this case is pretty interesting so far.
---

I love the little conversation Kay has with Delicia where she explains how to use all her British exclamations like "Oi!" and "Yessie!" and "Fie!" and she tries to use it on Edgeworth, only for him to tell her to be more serious. Then she drops her head and says, "Yessie..." It's such a great close to that bit.
---

Kay: Hide the pot...?

presented without context
---

I like that Edgeworth has the same reaction to many things that Gregory did just to show that they're still much the same deep down even though they chose different paths in life.
---

Kate's plan to catch the killer was pretty great

Kate in general is pretty great

E2-3 is just such an emotionally stirring case, which you almost never get from a non-epic case.
---

Edgeworth actually openly admitting that von Karma had a history of forging evidence was a pretty huge moment for him as a character, I think. He even hesitated to say it at first.
---

Miles finally passed Gregory in line count. I think the final tally will be a little closer than I expected, although I'm not totally sure how close to the end we are. Gustavia's about to show up, but I don't think his part in the case is super long. He has a rather lengthy Logic Chess, but he's pretty quick to admit to all his crimes so you don't have to spend a lot of time proving any of that.

also I never know how much of Courtney's resistance to Edgeworth is an act
---

You know, I like the fact that Gustavia actually did care about having the title of the World's Greatest Pastry Chef instead of it just being a cover for getting the Angel's Recipe like it was for Dover and Delicia. It gives his character a little more nuance.

also the first time he busts out candy design in the present is a "Whoa" moment
---

LeonhartFour posted...

Kate's plan to catch the killer was pretty great

Kate in general is pretty great

E2-3 is just such an emotionally stirring case, which you almost never get from a non-epic case.

I can get behind this Kate hype. I also like Jeff quite a lot even though he's minor. Damn, you feel for him. It's great bringing the truth to light so you can clear his name.

It's interesting that you say E2-3 isn't an epic case since... I dunno that I agree? It's certainly long enough to be one. It connects to a previous case in the past like most of them do. It's got lots of characters and high stakes (in the good way). The biggest argument for it not being an epic case (besides not being the last case in the game I guess) is usually the rival figure is important in those and it's actually Sebastian/Courtney's most deletable appearances, although AAI2 is oddly structured in that regard - Courtney's big moment is in case 4.
---

depends on what you consider an epic case to be (and it's more than length because every case in AAI2 is probably longer than it needs to be)

E2-3 is certainly not what the entire game has built up to. It's honestly fanservice more than anything just because you get to delve into what led up to DL-6, get some background on Gregory and his final case, and get to square off with von Karma again. E2-3 ultimately doesn't resolve anything meaningful in the present either. It's mostly cleaning up the mess left behind in the past by Gregory's untimely death. It's more of a launching point into many of the game's larger themes than it is any sort of destination or resolution. It's extremely satisfying and emotionally powerful. It's also AAI2's best case, but it's not an epic case.
---

I go both ways on that. E2-3 is presented like an epic case with the time jump and Miles finishing what Gregory couldn't. I think it even plays into the canon in a way that nothing else in that game does. I think E2-3 is closer to an epic case than any other mid-game case for sure.

Kate, blah
---

well both AAI games in general are pretty insignificant to the overall canon but they were kind of designed to be self-contained

E2-3 is probably the most "important" case to the overall canon because it's the only one that's really not self-contained

AA in general started going in pretty hard on 3rd cases starting with AAI2. 5-3, 6-3, and DGS's 3rd case (also the best case in that game) are all monster cases. Heck, same thing with L-3, too.
---

I like how Gustavia respected Master enough to the point that he admits he never intended for him to take the fall for it. He planned on framing Delicia all along (as did Kate, poor Delicia).

man Gustavia is such a great villain, what an unrepentant scumbag
---

LeonhartFour posted...

depends on what you consider an epic case to be (and it's more than length because every case in AAI2 is probably longer than it needs to be)

E2-3 is certainly not what the entire game has built up to. It's honestly fanservice more than anything just because you get to delve into what led up to DL-6, get some background on Gregory and his final case, and get to square off with von Karma again. E2-3 ultimately doesn't resolve anything meaningful in the present either. It's mostly cleaning up the mess left behind in the past by Gregory's untimely death. It's more of a launching point into many of the game's larger themes than it is any sort of destination or resolution. It's extremely satisfying and emotionally powerful. It's also AAI2's best case, but it's not an epic case.

I don't know what I consider to be an epic case really... the part about the rest of the game not building up to it is of course totally fair, and if that's your criteria then I 100% agree with you. I know I've seen people call 1-5 an epic case when of course it's absolutely not built up to at all, and feel that any definition that makes 1-5 an epic case would apply to E2-3 as well.

Regarding the more recent case 3's... 5-3 isn't really a monster case at all (it's longer than earlier game's case 3's because everything is these days, but it's shorter than 5-2!). 6-3 is a monster in the sense that is indeed long, but it doesn't have that epic feel in part because it has so few characters, but also because it is obviously building towards something else (e.g. Datz's stuff in the hideout isn't really relevant to 6-3, but is very relevant to 6-5 / the game as a whole).

The showdown with Gustavia feels like a pretty big culmination of previous events in a way that those with Means / Tahrust / any other case 3 villain doesn't, even though like them he's introduced in that case.

(Re that showdown since you're getting there, I kinda wish the game didn't telegraph the statute of limitations extensions as hard as it did. Not sure how better to do it, but it fell a bit flat for me, which is a shame because I really like the case overall.)
---

Well, I'm not talking monster necessarily in terms of size. It's just a case the game goes big on in terms of content. In the OT, AJ, and AAI1, the third case is lighthearted and generally kinda independent/disconnected from the rest of the game. Since then, third cases have generally been pretty important and more serious. 5-3 is probably the most lighthearted of the bunch, but it also pushes DARK AGE OF THE LAW harder than any other case in the game.

1-5 is a weird situation simply because it came along so much later than the rest of the game and doesn't totally fit as a result, but it feels like a follow-up to 1-4 more than anything, at least when it comes to Edgeworth. It's like an epic case sequel.

I don't know that E2-3 pushed the statute of limitations thing "hard." They drop it in about as casually in passing as they can without any sense of how it's going to come into play at the time (it actually first comes up in relation to Kate stealing Dover's body and how the statute of limitations for theft is only 7 years), but you also know it's not going to be added into evidence unless it's going to matter, just like the evidence law thing in 1-5. Plus, from 1-4, you already know that the statute of limitations on murder is 15 years and E2-3 is directly connected to it. I don't know how you could've integrated it into the case and have it be a "surprise" like you could with the metal detector.

Besides, the fact that E2-3 having the statute of limitations be involved allows Gustavia to act more "freely" and openly as a villain, which makes him feel unique as a result. You spend relatively little time in the showdown proving he did it and most of the time trying to find a way to nail him on it, with the added twist of the conundrum at the end that proving Master's innocence means Gustavia goes free anyway. It's another one of those legal/moral quandaries that AAI2 is good at.
---

5-3 doesn't fit any criteria of an epic case. it's the definition of filler. none of the characters carry forward besides Juniper who was already in 5-1. it might tie into the theme of the game but not enough to matter. you could pull that case from the game and it would still function as a whole.
---

I mean I'm not trying to argue it's an epic case

I've been arguing they're not epic cases just because they're large productions. I'm just saying that AA likes to make third cases a big spectacle nowadays. 5-3 is kind of a blend of the old third case style and the new third case style. It's pretty silly most of the way through until Means transforms and it becomes pretty serious business for a while. It establishes DD's themes pretty solidly though, much like E2-3 does.
---

E2-3 is the closest to epic-case of a non-epic case i think due to its canon tie-ins. (here i'm considering E2-4 to be epic)

it's a good point that it's really only 1-5's position at the end of a game that makes it particularly more 'epic' than E2-3.

anyway, love the kate and gustavia love here. there are really mediocre parts of E2-3 but it sticks the landing so well.
---

I love Ray's reaction when Gustavia reveals he was in Zheng Fa for exactly three years. His nervous animation pops up (one of the few times you actually see him sweat) and he says, "L-Let's calmly think this over." It's one of the rare genuine reactions from him in the game. He keeps himself pretty closely guarded like Edgeworth does, albeit by using humor as his defense mechanism instead. It's always great when you see a character like Ray lower his guard for a second.

Also, I'm glad they let Ray be the one to deliver the big line before Gustavia's breakdown.
---

Edgeworth's pretty great at the end here. Even as Courtney tells him that he'll need to appear before the P.I.C. because of what happened, he says, "Regardless of the outcome, I will never regret what I did here today." Then, even though he never actually gets the chance to, I like that he realizes that Larry was helpful to the case's outcome and he should try to express his gratitude to him. It's those little changes to Edgeworth's character that I really like about him in AAI2.
---

Total lines by character:

1. Phoenix Wright - 15074
2. Miles Edgeworth - 11777
3. Maya Fey - 4441
4. The Judge - 3846
5. Dick Gumshoe - 3791
6. Kay Faraday - 2302
7. Franziska von Karma - 2086
8. Mia Fey - 1418
9. Ema Skye - 1180
10. Pearl Fey - 1035
11. Larry Butz - 1007
12. Godot - 902
13. Raymond Shields - 804
14. Shi-Long Lang - 701
15. Gregory Edgeworth - 649
16. Tyrell Badd - 591
17. Dahlia Hawthorne - 578
18. Wendy Oldbag - 553
19. Justine Courtney - 505
20. Calisto Yew/Shih-na - 489
21. Adrian Andrews - 459
22. Manfred von Karma - 444
23. Lotta Hart - 437
24. The Judge's Brother - 421
25. Bikini - 351
26. Shelly de Killer - 351
27. Will Powers - 329
28. Maggey Byrde - 323
29. Lawrence "Moe" Curls - 320
30. Winston Payne - 309
31. Quercus Alba - 303
32. Luke Atmey - 292
33. Damon Gant - 285
34. Sebastian Debeste - 279
35. Ini Miney - 275
36. Angel Starr - 272
37. Ron DeLite - 271
38. Rhoda Teneiro - 268
39. Katherine Hall - 265
40. Jake Marshall - 257
41. Jean Armstrong - 251
42. Lana Skye - 249
43. Victor Kudo - 247
44. Marvin Grossberg - 234
45. Jacques Portsman - 231
46. Regina Berry - 224
47. Frank Sahwit - 218
48. Dane Gustavia - 209
49. Horace Knightley - 204
50. Patricia Roland - 204
51. Maximillion Galactica - 203
52. Ben & Trilo Quist - 200
53. Mike Meekins - 183
54. Ken "Acro" Dingling - 182
55. Iris - 181
56. Furio Tigre - 176
57. Nicole Swift - 175
58. Matt Engarde - 171
59. Cammy Meele - 168
60. Morgan Fey - 165
61. Redd White - 162
62. Colias Palaeno - 150
63. Delicia Scones - 150
64. Dee Vasquez - 148
65. Zinc Lablanc - 146
66. Desiree DeLite - 142
67. Trilo Quist - 140
68. Cody Hackins - 135
69. Lauren Paups - 130
70. Di-Jun Huang - 109
71. Richard Wellington - 107
72. April May - 104
73. Jay Elbird - 101
74. Yanni Yogi - 98
75. Lance Amano - 92
76. Jeff Master - 87
77. Sirhan Dogen - 87
78. Penny Nichols - 86
79. Viola Cadaverini - 80
80. Simon Keyes - 79
81. Terry Fawles - 74
82. The Bellboy - 72
83. Director Hotti - 71
84. Ernest Amano - 68
85. Benjamin Woodman - 60
86. Sal Manella - 59
87. Chief of Detectives - 55
88. Lisa Basil - 46
89. Turner Grey - 39
90. Elise Deauxnim - 30
91. Missile - 20
92. Polly - 20
93. John Marsh - 1

Overall total lines - 67582

E2-3 End - 1603
E2-3 Middle - 1393
E2-3 Beginning - 963

Total lines by case:

2-4 - 5946
1-5 - 5913
3-5 - 5815
E1-5 - 4831
3-2 - 4151
3-3 - 4063
E2-3 - 3959
E2-2 - 3936
2-3 - 3884
1-4 - 3466
2-2 - 3119
E1-4 - 2935
1-3 - 2741
E1-3 - 2412
E1-2 - 1995
E2-1 - 1923
1-2 - 1773
3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
E1-1 - 1039
2-2 - 899
1-1 - 389

Totals lines by game:

T&T - 16422
PW1 - 14282
JFA - 13848
AAI1 - 13212
AAI2 - 9818

Total lines by character per case:

The Inherited Turnabout (E2-3)

1. Miles Edgeworth - 870 (21.98%)
2. Gregory Edgeworth - 644 (16.27%)
3. Raymond Shields - 531 (13.41%)
4. Tyrell Badd - 278 (7.02%)
5. Katherine Hall - 265 (6.69%)
6. Kay Faraday - 261 (6.59%)
7. Dane Gustavia - 209 (5.28%)
8. Justine Courtney - 193 (4.87%)
9. Delicia Scones - 150 (3.79%)
10. Larry Butz - 128 (3.23%)
11. Manfred von Karma - 127 (3.21%)
12. Sebastian Debeste - 121 (3.06%)
13. Jeff Master - 87 (2.20%)
14. Dick Gumshoe - 57 (1.44%)
15. Other - 27
16. Isaac Dover - 5
17. Desiree DeLite - 3
18. Ron DeLite - 2
19. John Marsh - 1
---

Total lines by character per game:

Ace Attorney Investigations 2

1. Miles Edgeworth - 3297
2. Kay Faraday - 823
3. Raymond Shields - 804
4. Gregory Edgeworth - 644
5. Justine Courtney - 505
6. Dick Gumshoe - 483
7. Sebastian Debeste - 279
8. Tyrell Badd - 278
9. Katherine Hall - 265
10. Dane Gustavia - 209
11. Horace Knightley - 204
12. Patricia Roland - 204
13. Nicole Swift - 175
14. Frank Sahwit - 160
15. Delicia Scones - 150
16. Shelly de Killer - 132
17. Larry Butz - 128
18. Manfred von Karma - 127
19. Other - 117
20. Di-Jun Huang - 109
21. Jay Elbird - 101
22. Jeff Master - 87
23. Sirhan Dogen - 87
24. Simon Keyes - 79
25. Regina Berry - 73
26. Missile - 10
27. Shi-Long Lang - 8
28. Winston Payne - 8
29. Isaac Dover - 5
30. Desiree DeLite - 3
31. Ron DeLite - 2
32. John Marsh - 1

Most lines per case:

Phoenix Wright (2-4) - 2194
Miles Edgeworth (E1-5) - 2036
Phoenix Wright (1-5) - 2032
Miles Edgeworth (E2-2) - 1597
Phoenix Wright (3-5) - 1570
Phoenix Wright (3-3) - 1476
Phoenix Wright (3-2) - 1433
Phoenix Wright (2-2) - 1370
Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 1328
Phoenix Wright (2-3) - 1236
Phoenix Wright (1-4) - 1211
Phoenix Wright (1-3) - 1117
Miles Edgeworth (E1-3) - 1059
Miles Edgeworth (E1-2) - 936
Miles Edgeworth (E2-3) - 870
Miles Edgeworth (E2-1) - 830
Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 812
Miles Edgeworth (E1-1) - 466
Mia Fey (3-4) - 436
Mia Fey (3-1) - 396
Phoenix Wright (2-1) - 329
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 135

Highest percentage of lines per case:

Miles Edgeworth (E1-2) - 46.92%
Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 45.80%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 45.25%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-1) - 44.85%
Phoenix Wright (2-2) - 43.92%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-3) - 43.91%
Miles Edgeworth (E2-1) - 43.16%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-5) - 42.14%
Phoenix Wright (1-3) - 40.75%
Miles Edgeworth (E2-2) - 40.57%
Phoenix Wright (2-4) - 36.90%
Phoenix Wright (2-1) - 36.60%
Phoenix Wright (3-3) - 36.33%
Mia Fey (3-4) - 35.59%
Phoenix Wright (1-4) - 34.94%
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 34.70%
Phoenix Wright (3-2) - 34.52%
Phoenix Wright (1-5) - 34.36%
Mia Fey (3-1) - 33.93%
Phoenix Wright (2-3) - 31.82%
Phoenix Wright (3-5) - 27.00%
Miles Edgeworth (E2-3) - 21.98%
---

I like Kay's remixed theme in E2-4

also LOL Gumshoe still hasn't caught the Judge after three cases
---

yeah, kay's reminiscence theme is awesome. adrian/steel samurai is still the GOAT though
---

man Kay's freaking out animation here is really something
---

I'm debating whether I should count Karin's recitation of lines from Bonnie as just lines from Karin or if I should count them for Bonnie because she won't have any lines otherwise.
---

maybe I should do it just for fun like I did with Ben and Trilo
---

If you are up to the extra work it doesn't hurt to separate them.
---

I love that Karin's facial expressions change when she's speaking for Bonnie. I imagine she does an impression, too.
---

Man, I barely remember these characters.
---

well they're not super great other than being a two person comedy act so they're kinda forgettable
---

oh hey the rest of the English dub of the Ace Attorney anime came out today

I guess I'll slowly work my way through it to give my thoughts on their voice actor choices and lament over 2-4's adaptation again
---

E2-4 Beginning complete

it always pleases me when Edgeworth turns Courtney's bad logic against her

also yeah Blaise is not a good character
---

since AAI2 is one of the games I'm least familiar with, I think my character rankings are still pretty fluid here (might still be the case with SoJ too since I've only played it twice back to back as soon as the game came out)

I think my opinion of Roland has actually improved a bit after E2-2 because she was better at the end than I remembered, but we'll see if E2-5 drags her back down. Conversely, I think my opinion of Courtney has dropped a bit because she's kind of annoying as an opponent. The case always bogs down whenever she shows up. I think part of it is because I'm not sure if she actually means anything she says or if she's just "testing" Edgeworth, but her logic is often kinda bad (not the Sebastian kind of bad, but in the "the burden of proof is always with you and never with me so I can just say whatever I want without consequence" way some AA rivals can be). We'll see if E2-4 brings her back up though. I think I might bump Ray up a little bit because I had forgotten just how good he was in E2-3, but I don't think he's all that good in the last two cases, so we'll see. The important characters in AAI2 seem kind of inconsistent in general, I think.

Blaise and Dogen have been firmly confirmed as boring and one-dimensional characters though.
---

Yeah I think AAI2's cast is sort of... eh

I really like E2-3's cast and Knightley and Simon are fine but everyone else, meh

Courtney's all about E2-4 and you've always given the impression that your big problem with Roland was e2-5 so I don't think a lot is going to change there.
---

I rank Courtney about where I rank Lang, i.e. lower-middle as far as rival figures go. Both have some style and a cool moment in the main plot but I find both sometimes annoying as opponents, because they come across as stupid/bullheaded at points (some of that's to draw a contrast with Edgeworth, of course). With Courtney there's the excuse of "well it's all a game to make the P.I.C. believe she's serious" but I'm not really a big fan of the P.I.C. plot or how much I actually buy the twist, even though I think the face turn is a pretty great moment.

I like Sebastian and Ray pretty well, but they're not all-time favourites. (Though yeah, Ray's basically done at this point; you could remove him from E2-4 and E2-5 entirely and I don't think much changes.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Yeah I think AAI2's cast is sort of... eh

I really like E2-3's cast and Knightley and Simon are fine but everyone else, meh

This generally sums up my feeling on the case-specific characters, yep.
---