Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 5: The Pursuit (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Anyway, E2-4 Middle complete

The line distribution for this case has been weird because each segment has been so heavily focused on only two or three other characters besides Edgeworth, and the last segment probably won't be any different (Courtney and Blaise for End, obviously).
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6-2 is such a mixed bag for me

on the one hand, the cast is GREAT, although nahyuta sort of fails to impress in his debut - weirdly, even though he's against Apollo here, this is his least memorable case by a lot, he makes barely any impact on the case at all imo. Retinz and the twins are great though.

on the other hand they badly undersold the twins gimmick, the murder method was not very well explained, the investigation had insufferably slow pacing... meh

Nahyuta is mediocre in every case! (At least as a prosecutor; his plot related stuff in 6-5 is a bit better).
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Been a while since I read those threads
Leon are you close to finishing your project?
Are you planning on Layton vs Phoenix Wright too?
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Nahyuta's best gimmick is when he proves himself to be extremely knowledgeable on things you wouldn't expect him to know anything about, like in 6-2 where he knows all about this famous restaurant's burgers because he stood in line for hours to get one. The problem in 6-2 with facing Apollo is that you have no sense of their relationship at this point. Apollo gives you the vague impression that he knows the guy, but he's so emotionally guarded that he won't let it show to anyone (and so is Nahyuta, for that matter). They might as well be strangers in 6-2 from the way they interact with each other.

I do like Retinz/Reus as a villain a lot, and Trucy's testimony where she explains the magic trick is probably a top 5 testimony ever. It's so good. The twins were decent (although Bonny is way better than Betty). The case really felt like it should've been split up into two PW1-length days instead of having it be one insanely long day though.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Nahyuta is mediocre in every case! (At least as a prosecutor; his plot related stuff in 6-5 is a bit better).

Eh, I don't agree with this. I thought Nahyuta's non-prosecutor stuff in 6-5 was kinda bad. Honestly, him trying to take the fall for Ga'ran might have been the worst part of that case. It's so forced, and there's no real emotional resonance there, even though there's supposed to be when you finally "set him free" or whatever.

Nanis23 posted...

Been a while since I read those threads
Leon are you close to finishing your project?
Are you planning on Layton vs Phoenix Wright too?

Close? Well, it's probably more than halfway done at this point, but I wouldn't say we're "close."

I might do Layton/PW at the end since it's essentially non-canon so we can have the final "canon" numbers.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Nahyuta's best gimmick is when he proves himself to be extremely knowledgeable on things you wouldn't expect him to know anything about, like in 6-2 where he knows all about this famous restaurant's burgers because he stood in line for hours to get one.

preach!
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LeonhartFour posted...

Eh, I don't agree with this. I thought Nahyuta's non-prosecutor stuff in 6-5 was kinda bad. Honestly, him trying to take the fall for Ga'ran might have been the worst part of that case. It's so forced, and there's no real emotional resonance there, even though there's supposed to be when you finally "set him free" or whatever.

Yeah I agree. This was the weakest part of 6-5 imo. It just didn't really land.

i kinda give 6-5 nahyuta a pass because it's all transparently a buildup for A DRAGON NEVER YIELDS

also think it's kinda neat that nahyuta looks like his mom and rayfa looks like her dad
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Just finished up Blaise's Logic Chess. I can't get ginned up for this guy. He's just not interesting as a character or as an opponent at all. He's so shallow, and he's not even entertaining to compensate for it.
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Nahyuta's best gimmick is when he proves himself to be extremely knowledgeable on things you wouldn't expect him to know anything about, like in 6-2 where he knows all about this famous restaurant's burgers because he stood in line for hours to get one.

Definitely agree with this. This and the rakugo bit in 6-4 are probably my favourite two Nahyuta moments. I feel the game could have done more with him as a studious super-nerd, since his personality outside of that feels like such a retread.

Taking the fall for Ga'ran was indeed ineffective (the game tries to sell you on the "sins of the father" stuff but I didn't really buy it) and even if it were okay once, it's diluted by how both he and Amara do that. Very much the artificial "extend the final case needlessly" part of the game there!

also think it's kinda neat that nahyuta looks like his mom and rayfa looks like her dad

Yepyep. It reminds me a lot of Suikoden 5's main family, both even have a silverhaired mother/son.
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Okay it's been a few days now and I've had time to reflect.

The second half of 6-5 is dumb. Super dumb. The murder is dumb, Amara is dumb, the hostage situation with Rayfa is dumb, allowing Garan's reign of terror that results in shitloads of executions because you don't way Rayfa to have the sins of her father was dumb, the revelation of Rayfa's parentage was dumb, Nahyuta was dumb, Garan as a prosecutor was dumb, Inga blatantly murderering Dhurke knowing a seance would show Dhurke's final moments was dumb, nearly everything was dumb.
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NeoElfboy posted...

(the game tries to sell you on the "sins of the father" stuff but I didn't really buy it)

well that's very much an Oriental concept (and a real one for that matter) so it makes sense it doesn't have much impact on a Western audience

also if Amara exposes Ga'ran and Rayfa loses the right to rule because she's a wanted criminal's daughter, it basically results in anarchy, so there's no "easy" solution to that problem

OliviaTremor posted...

Inga blatantly murderering Dhurke knowing a seance would show Dhurke's final moments was dumb

I mean this assumes there would even be a trial for Dhurke's murder when there probably wouldn't be considering the circumstances
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okay I'm finished watching the AA anime dub

while I still think the 2-4 adaptation made a lot of weird changes, it wasn't so bad the second time around once I knew what I was getting into

T&T anime hype
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I like that during most of E2-4 End, the other P.I.C. members are just sitting around and watching everything unfold.

Hit the checkpoint of End. I'm not sure if this section will have an investigation segment at all. It hasn't had one yet.
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E2-4 complete! I'm realizing how few investigations this case has. You investigate the rooftop, the P.I.C. meeting room, and the storehouse, and only the storehouse is an extensive one.

Numbers forthcoming soonish
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Total lines by character:

1. Phoenix Wright - 15074
2. Miles Edgeworth - 12910
3. Maya Fey - 4441
4. Dick Gumshoe - 3968
5. The Judge - 3846
6. Kay Faraday - 2517
7. Franziska von Karma - 2250
8. Mia Fey - 1418
9. Ema Skye - 1334
10. Pearl Fey - 1035
11. Larry Butz - 1007
12. Godot - 902
13. Raymond Shields - 867
14. Justine Courtney - 769
15. Shi-Long Lang - 701
16. Gregory Edgeworth - 649
17. Tyrell Badd - 591
18. Dahlia Hawthorne - 578
19. Lotta Hart - 576
20. Wendy Oldbag - 553
21. Calisto Yew/Shih-na - 489
22. Adrian Andrews - 459
23. Manfred von Karma - 444
24. The Judge's Brother - 421
25. Sebastian Debeste - 405
26. Shelly de Killer - 359
27. Bikini - 351
28. Will Powers - 329
29. Maggey Byrde - 323
30. Lawrence "Moe" Curls - 320
31. Winston Payne - 309
32. Quercus Alba - 303
33. Luke Atmey - 292
34. Damon Gant - 285
35. Ini Miney - 275
36. Angel Starr - 272
37. Ron DeLite - 271
38. Rhoda Teneiro - 268
39. Katherine Hall - 265
40. Jake Marshall - 257
41. Jean Armstrong - 251
42. Lana Skye - 249
43. Victor Kudo - 247
44. Marvin Grossberg - 234
45. Jacques Portsman - 231
46. Regina Berry - 224
47. Frank Sahwit - 218
48. Blaise Debeste - 218
49. Dane Gustavia - 209
50. Horace Knightley - 204
51. Patricia Roland - 204
52. Maximillion Galactica - 203
53. Ben & Trilo Quist - 200
54. Mike Meekins - 183
55. Ken "Acro" Dingling - 182
56. Iris - 181
57. Furio Tigre - 176
58. Nicole Swift - 175
59. Matt Engarde - 171
60. Cammy Meele - 168
61. Morgan Fey - 165
62. Redd White - 162
63. Colias Palaeno - 150
64. Delicia Scones - 150
65. Dee Vasquez - 148
66. Zinc Lablanc - 146
67. Desiree DeLite - 142
68. Trilo Quist - 140
69. Cody Hackins - 135
70. Lauren Paups - 130
71. Karin Jenson - 127
72. Di-Jun Huang - 109
73. Richard Wellington - 107
74. April May - 104
75. Jay Elbird - 101
76. Yanni Yogi - 98
77. Lance Amano - 92
78. Penny Nichols - 88
79. Jeff Master - 87
80. Sirhan Dogen - 87
81. Viola Cadaverini - 80
82. Simon Keyes - 79
83. Terry Fawles - 74
84. The Bellboy - 72
85. Director Hotti - 71
86. Ernest Amano - 68
87. Benjamin Woodman - 60
88. Sal Manella - 59
89. Chief of Detectives - 55
90. Bonnie Young - 52
91. Lisa Basil - 46
92. Turner Grey - 39
93. Elise Deauxnim - 30
94. Missile - 20
95. Polly - 20
96. John Marsh - 4

Overall total lines - 70450

Total lines by segment:

E2-4 End - 1129
E2-4 Beginning - 871
E2-4 Middle - 868

Total lines by case:

2-4 - 5946
1-5 - 5913
3-5 - 5815
E1-5 - 4831
3-2 - 4151
3-3 - 4063
E2-3 - 3959
E2-2 - 3936
2-3 - 3884
1-4 - 3466
2-2 - 3119
E1-4 - 2935
E2-4 - 2868
1-3 - 2741
E1-3 - 2412
E1-2 - 1995
E2-1 - 1923
1-2 - 1773
3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
E1-1 - 1039
2-2 - 899
1-1 - 389

Totals lines by game:

T&T - 16422
PW1 - 14282
JFA - 13848
AAI1 - 13212
AAI2 - 12686
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Total lines by character per case:

The Forgotten Turnabout (E2-4)

1. Miles Edgeworth - 1133 (39.50%)
2. Justine Courtney - 264 (9.21%)
3. Blaise Debeste - 218 (7.60%)
4. Kay Faraday - 215 (7.50%)
5. Dick Gumshoe - 177 (6.17%)
6. Franziska von Karma - 164 (5.72%)
7. Ema Skye - 154 (5.37%)
8. Lotta Hart - 139 (4.85%)
9. Karin Jenson - 127 (4.43%)
10. Sebastian Debeste - 126 (4.39%)
11. Raymond Shields - 63 (2.20%)
12. Bonnie Young - 52 (1.81%)
13. Other - 22
14. Shelly de Killer - 8
15. John Marsh - 3
16. Penny Nichols - 2
17. Jill Crane - 1

Total lines by character per game:

Ace Attorney Investigations 2

1. Miles Edgeworth - 4430
2. Kay Faraday - 1038
3. Raymond Shields - 867
4. Justine Courtney - 769
5. Dick Gumshoe - 660
6. Gregory Edgeworth - 644
7. Sebastian Debeste - 405
8. Tyrell Badd - 278
9. Katherine Hall - 265
10. Blaise Debeste - 218
11. Dane Gustavia - 209
12. Horace Knightley - 204
13. Patricia Roland - 204
14. Nicole Swift - 175
15. Franziska von Karma - 164
16. Frank Sahwit - 160
17. Ema Skye - 154
18. Delicia Scones - 150
19. Shelly de Killer - 140
20. Lotta Hart - 139
21. Other - 139
22. Larry Butz - 128
23. Karin Jenson - 127
24. Manfred von Karma - 127
25. Di-Jun Huang - 109
26. Jay Elbird - 101
27. Jeff Master - 87
28. Sirhan Dogen - 87
29. Simon Keyes - 79
30. Regina Berry - 73
31. Bonnie Young - 52
32. Missile - 10
33. Shi-Long Lang - 8
34. Winston Payne - 8
35. Isaac Dover - 5
36. John Marsh - 4
37. Desiree DeLite - 3
38. Ron DeLite - 2
39. Penny Nichols - 2
40. Jill Crane - 1
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E2-5 time

line distribution here should be interesting just because of how massive the cast is
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I forget, who are the five characters the game uses for the centre of the case art for AAI2? Your comment reminded me one of the few games with a large enough cast that there has to be a major omission. Edgeworth, Gregory, Kay, Ray, Courtney, and Sebastian all feel like they belong there.

Come to think of it, JFA feels similar with Maya being left off, though of course that's partly a product of being only four cases.
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NeoElfboy posted...

I forget, who are the five characters the game uses for the centre of the case art for AAI2?

E2-1 - Edgeworth
E2-2 - Courtney
E2-3 - Gregory
E2-4 - Kay
E2-5 - Sebastian

I would've guessed Ray would be the omission off the top of my head because E2-3 is his big case in the game, and that one obviously has to be Gregory.
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Fall of the House of Lang such a good song

AAI2's OST is a step down from AAI1's but man the new character themes or remixes are so good
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Hit the first checkpoint in E2-5 Beginning. Penny's testimony about John speaking with "Gourdy" and mistaking the camera crane for it is pretty dumb because she ought to know better than anyone what it really was.
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also Penny already has as many lines in this case as she had in all of 1-3
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it only took one line from Roland for me to knock her back down where she was before

my word that was fast
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What did she say?
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she interrupts the opening statement just to be like "hey guys what am I even doing here being on trial like this LOL"
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LeonhartFour posted...

Hit the first checkpoint in E2-5 Beginning. Penny's testimony about John speaking with "Gourdy" and mistaking the camera crane for it is pretty dumb because she ought to know better than anyone what it really was.

I'm not sure if some of this is on the translation but the comedy of "multiple adults are convinced fictional characters are real" fell about the flattest for me of any comedy in the series. Penny was the worst about it, though, as you said.
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Yeah, it's part of the reason (along with the trial being the biggest part, obviously) why I'm not as big on E2-5 as others. The Moozilla/Gourdy stuff was not very good (although part of me wishes that the giant Moozilla head ended up being the real murder weapon). The first half of the case really drags because of those two things. Once you finally leave those in the dust, it picks up appreciably, but the damage is already done.
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There are two cool things about E2-5 imo:

1) It's really neat how it ties up all the plotlines from the previous cases, even if it is a little hamfisted.
2) Simon being the bad guy is cool, and he's fun to confront.

Otherwise I think the case is lacking. The rest of it is really unmemorable and unfocused and there's just TOO many plot threads.

Yeah, I think both AAI games have that same problem with their epic cases. They seem to believe that an epic case means there's tons of stuff happening at the same time, although they're at their best when you're only focusing on one or two things.
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I think both AAI games just kind of fail to find emotional resonance in their plots. I like the Yatagarasu stuff in AAI1 and I like E2-3 in AAI2 but I think everything else is seriously B-list material. Nothing quite finds its mark for me.

Incidentally, E1-5 and E2-3 are my favorite AAI cases

Courtney's panicked animation is so weird
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Final Logic Chess of the game complete. I actually like this one because it's more than Edgeworth just trying to extract information, but it's him also trying to encourage Sebastian and help him regain his resolve as a prosecutor. It's a side of his character we don't see often.

although I did find it amusing before the Logic Chess began that Edgeworth and Kay were worried about what effects using it on Sebastian would have, almost like he'd have some sort of mental shutdown a la Persona
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Eh, I'm a big fan of E2-5. I love its ambition and I think Simon is one of the better one-off villains in the series. Though, there is certainly parts of the case that drags on.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

I think both AAI games just kind of fail to find emotional resonance in their plots. I like the Yatagarasu stuff in AAI1 and I like E2-3 in AAI2 but I think everything else is seriously B-list material. Nothing quite finds its mark for me.

Incidentally, E1-5 and E2-3 are my favorite AAI cases

Same here! :)

Sebastian Logic Chess is, along with the showdown with Simon, one of two parts of E2-5 which make it worth the price of admission for me, despite being kinda down on it overall. It's funny, it's touching. In some ways you can quibble how much it matters to E2-5's plot itself, but oh well.
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it's weird that this trial in E2-5 is the only time in the entire series "innocent until proven guilty" actually applies
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man I've still got a ways to go and this is already the third longest segment so far
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Sebastian's manly tear followed by his new theme is so good
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Sebastian: You may have hated me to the very end, Pops, but I...I've always looked up to you. Thank you for everything up until now...and goodbye.
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E2-5 Beginning finally complete

goodbye trial forever
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Wait that's all "Beginning"? I've clearly forgotten the pace of this case. Or there's more annoying stuff with John Marsh than I remember.
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e2-5 is just not even. beginning is rescuing John, middle is figuring out who the mastermind is and end is just the showdown.
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E2-5 Beginning constitutes about 40% of the case.

Middle is mostly Mastermind and SS-5 stuff. There's still more annoying stuff with John Marsh and Dogen to come though. We can leave Blaise and Roland behind now, at least.
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also Edgeworth needed 2164 lines in E2-5 to catch Phoenix and he got 929 in Beginning

it's gonna be close
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you have got to be kidding me

I just lost all my data from E2-5 Beginning

this is a bad joke

now I've got to replay that whole friggin' thing all over again

...I'm going to bed
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ouch

well at least you just said how many lines Edgeworth had
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yeah but that doesn't really help me since I'll still have to count them all again anyway
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LeonhartFour posted...

goodbye trial forever

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yeah that's the bad joke

I think I'm just going to finish the case first and then go back to redo Beginning so I don't start hating E2-5 and I can just restrict it to self-loathing
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at least you know edgeworth's count so you can skip counting 40% of the lines
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