Board 8 > * The Show EP 2 - Epic Breakdown of World's Biggest Bracket!, w/ yo & Leon *

(+) Yeah! (+)

Just a thought but should've Joker actually be called Akira Kurusu? I mean that was his name going into the game. It's meant to be a game contest so that should be his default name and not the anime one.
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shane15 posted...

Just a thought but should've Joker actually be called Akira Kurusu? I mean that was his name going into the game. It's meant to be a game contest so that should be his default name and not the anime one.

No

First of all, that name comes from a manga, not the game. Second of all, that manga isn't canon. Third of all, if you want to go by games, his name is Ren Amamiya in Persona 5 Dancing Star Night anyway
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A correction: Sora vs Kefka (Battle 115) is in November. Because it's before thanksgiving.

Does my head in how they don't just give Persona main characters a name from the start.
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shane15 posted...

It still amazes me that matches like Joker/Claire can be decided by a name or a match pic. Is the IQ of people voting in these contests that low they can't figure stuff like this out?

It's not about not knowing who they are necessarily. Not everybody keeps a top 100 list of characters that they consult when it's time to vote in a match, so there are certain factors that can influence who they vote for, like the picture. Plus, there's going to be a decent chunk of voters who have never played P5 and/or an RE game with Claire in it, and they're not all just going to abstain and not vote.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Lightning Strikes posted...

It's the best Sonic game in over a decade (since at least Rush)

what

This is a near universally held opinion!

Also just to clarify a bit on KOS-MOS, she isn't just an equip in Xenoblade 2. She is the rarest blade in the game, and a full character with her own quest when you get her. However more importantly getting her, and bragging about getting her, is a massive meme in the fanbase. Xenoblade 2 has probably done more for her than any other game since her original. Xenoblade is waaaaaaaay more popular than Xenosaga and a lot of people will have been introduced to her that way.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

This is a near universally held opinion!

what

pretty sure Colors and Generations are both better liked than Rush
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LeonhartFour posted...

shane15 posted...

It still amazes me that matches like Joker/Claire can be decided by a name or a match pic. Is the IQ of people voting in these contests that low they can't figure stuff like this out?

It's not about not knowing who they are necessarily. Not everybody keeps a top 100 list of characters that they consult when it's time to vote in a match, so there are certain factors that can influence who they vote for, like the picture. Plus, there's going to be a decent chunk of voters who have never played P5 and/or an RE game with Claire in it, and they're not all just going to abstain and not vote.

In other words they'll see 2 random people and pick the girl because TJF.
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shane15 posted...

In other words they'll see 2 random people and pick the girl because TJF.

uh no not necessarily

but they're much more likely to vote for swanky Phantom Thieves Joker than a generic looking dude wearing a school uniform
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Like, you can argue all you want about how stuff like pictures shouldn't matter, but they absolutely do.

No pic: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/5141-which-27-seed-would-you-most-like-to-see-pull-a-surprise

Picture: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/5188-character-battle-ix-division-6-round-1-crono-vs-kerrigan-vs

Good pic: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/2116-gear-division-final-solid-snake-vs-sora

Bad pic: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/2123-tournament-quarterfinal-solid-snake-vs-bowser
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LeonhartFour posted...

Lightning Strikes posted...

This is a near universally held opinion!

what

pretty sure Colors and Generations are both better liked than Rush

Ah I see, I thought Mania was the point of contention. I very nearly said Advance instead of Rush. Anyway:

https://www.metacritic.com/game/ds/sonic-rush

https://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/sonic-colors

https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-generations
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Has the effect of pictures lessened over time? Surely more people would recognize Solid Snake by name now than in 200%, right?
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Lightning Strikes posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

Lightning Strikes posted...

This is a near universally held opinion!

what

pretty sure Colors and Generations are both better liked than Rush

Ah I see, I thought Mania was the point of contention. I very nearly said Advance instead of Rush. Anyway:

https://www.metacritic.com/game/ds/sonic-rush

https://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/sonic-colors

https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-generations

Metacritic =/= Fanbase
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Solid Snake still underperforms with sprite pics. He's just a lot stronger now so he's not almost losing to characters like Bowser because of it anymore. It's not just about name recognition. The dude has always been among the top ten most popular characters here and MGS games are popular, too. Not to mention, it's a unique name so even if you've never played MGS before, you probably at least recognize the name.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

Ah I see, I thought Mania was the point of contention. I very nearly said Advance instead of Rush. Anyway:

https://www.metacritic.com/game/ds/sonic-rush

https://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/sonic-colors

https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-generations

I mean if we're going to go by small sample sizes Colors and Generations both have better user scores (Generations is noticeably better) on here and they have 3-4 times as many user votes than Metacritic does
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I mean we can all agree that the far, far greater injustice is Yo saying that Samus hasn't had a worthwhile game in over 10 years despite Samus Returns being a thing. That's just scandalous.
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I'm actually playing the 3DS Luigi's Mansion remake as I listen to Leon say that nobody votes for Luigi because of Luigi's Mansion!

Though it's probably true
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I love Luigi's Mansion. Though I agree people probably don't vote Luigi for it.

That said Luigi owes a lot to LM. It gave him an actual characterization other than Mario's palette swap. If he has his own games today it's because LM made him his own character.

Squall/Zelda is giving me headaches
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You guys need to account for the Roy Moore vote in Ellie/KOS-MOS. We'll have to check the voting trends for Alabama in that one.

And I've got Zelda in Squall/Zelda because of the big neon banner during the last Nintendo Direct that said "Final Fantasy VIII sucks".
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I'm actually playing the 3DS Luigi's Mansion remake as I listen to Leon say that nobody votes for Luigi because of Luigi's Mansion!

Though it's probably true

Hey, I actually like Luigi's Mansion, too! I'm just callin' it like it is! Although we did have YEAR OF LUIGI in 2013, so maybe he'll be weaker this time.

Big Bob posted...

And I've got Zelda in Squall/Zelda because of the big neon banner during the last Nintendo Direct that said "Final Fantasy VIII sucks".

that wasn't the reason FFVIII wasn't among the games ported

it's certainly more popular than FFXII if nothing else but it's traditionally been more popular than FFIX among the fandom, especially in Japan

the problems with FFVIII getting ports have nothing to do with Square thinking the game isn't popular because they don't think that
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Oh, I know, Leon. That part of the Direct just made me lol. But the fact that it's not getting ported does mean less Squall exposure.
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all he needs is a KH3 trailer with him in it and it's all over
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Kingdom Hearts trailer with Bowsette, anyone?

Ok I'll go to bed now.

LeonhartFour posted...

that wasn't the reason FFVIII wasn't among the games ported

it's certainly more popular than FFXII if nothing else but it's traditionally been more popular than FFIX among the fandom, especially in Japan

FF8 sold a lot more, but it seems like FF9 is more highly regarded among hardcore fans. Given the double votes for registered users, and the smaller number of poll votes these days, I'd expect FF9 to benefit more than most games in this contest. (so in other words, Zidane over Knuckles seems pretty safe)
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Whew, finally finished
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Another thing about Squall/Zelda that no one has brought up yet is a very close match situation at the end of the match. If we do see a very close match at the end, there's no way I would trust Squall to out-clutch Zelda there.
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scaryice posted...

FF8 sold a lot more, but it seems like FF9 is more highly regarded among hardcore fans. Given the double votes for registered users, and the smaller number of poll votes these days, I'd expect FF9 to benefit more than most games in this contest. (so in other words, Zidane over Knuckles seems pretty safe)

I mean very few things Square will benefit from registered votes counting double, I'd wager

It'll help Crono and crew though because they've always had good board votes. Kefka, too. Modern FF, not so much.

please spare me all the "FFIX is basically Old Square" rhetoric
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LusterSoldier posted...

Another thing about Squall/Zelda that no one has brought up yet is a very close match situation at the end of the match. If we do see a very close match at the end, there's no way I would trust Squall to out-clutch Zelda there.

yeah because we saw Zelda really pull it out at the end against Charizard LOLOLOLO
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LeonhartFour posted...

yeah because we saw Zelda really pull it out at the end against Charizard LOLOLOLO

That's not really the same thing as Squall/Zelda because that's a Nintendo/Nintendo match-up. In this case, we're dealing with Nintendo vs. non-Nintendo.
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okay name all the Zelda clutch performances then

I'll wait

and wait

and wait

and wait

(also Charizard got out-clutched by a non-Nintendo character the very next round so this is a weak argument either way)
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Charizard might have lost to Mega Man, but Mega Man has much closer ties to Nintendo than Squall (who still has none). The difference between Squall and Mega Man is the degree to which they are anti-voted. It's hard to trust Squall to pull out a clutch win at the end when he's so anti-voted, where as Mega Man doesn't have any noticeable anti-voter base.
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Mario got out-clutched by Vivi, so the idea that Nintendo always pulls it out in the clutch is a false narrative anyway. The examples of Nintendo pulling it out at the end that aren't Mario and CJayC cheating to beat Crono are very few.

The two most clutch entities in contest history are Chrono Trigger and Metal Gear Solid, not Nintendo.
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Squall/Zelda is on the same day as D.Va/Aeris, potentially.

Square soft.
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Actually, I guess that's not necessarily true. Nintendo has pulled it out at the end multiple times. Zelda almost never has though. I mean, Link has never needed to, but Zelda and Ganondorf have both failed in close matches in their history. Actually, I guess Link did fail against Draven, but that one's not totally on him, of course. The games have failed in clutch spots, too. Remember how we were supposedly on our way to an all-Zelda Final Four in 2004, and then none of them got there?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3502-contest-quarterfinal-smb-1-zelda-i-smb-3-smw

never forget that this happened too

But even the most "clutch" entities fail sometimes so it's not a bulletproof strategy to just bet on the clutch character to pull it out in the end. Plus, relatively few matches come down to the wire anyway.
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LeonhartFour posted...

that's what the weekly episodes during the contest are for

by the time we have the next episode the contest will have started already so we've got to get the entire bracket preview in with this episode

sure but I literally mean, break the file up

it's hard to keep track of where you are if you can't listen in one sitting, and who has 4 hours to do a single thing?
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Is there a link to the 2013 bracket with stats?
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I listened to this episode of The Show in one sitting

I'm not sure if I should be proud of this
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you guys have to analyze the impact of the mid-term elections on the contest.

They're going to have a massive impact I feel.
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tag
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"Noc-Tis Guy" is good joke
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RoseChevalier posted...

sure but I literally mean, break the file up

I thought Ngamer was planning to split it up into two parts, but I guess he changed his mind!

ZenOfThunder posted...

"Noc-Tis Guy" is good joke

The FFXV characters pun off of Noct's name all the time

FFXV the best
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I have been meaning to complete the 2015 Contest Wiki pages for a while now.
I decided to do it while listening to that episode, and at long last it's finally done.

And I still have about 2 hours to go on...

Glad to see this is still going. I was on it back in the day - 3rd last episode of your first season.

some of my upsets I want to HIGHLIGHT:

DK > Leon
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4517-northeast-division-round-1-sub-zero-vs-scorpion-leon-vs-ada
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4545-northeast-division-round-2-donkey-kong-vs-king-k-rool-sub

L-Block > Kefka
Block beat AURON. You guys were talking about how these joke characters were one and done, but L-block stuck around and settled into a pretty strong character on its own merits. No rallies, just good strength. L-Block goes through to the finals where it falls to Sora.
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...did you literally use Rivalry Rumble to justify an upset

you might as well have Red winning the contest or at least coming darn close

WiggumFan267 posted...

Block beat AURON. You guys were talking about how these joke characters were one and done, but L-block stuck around and settled into a pretty strong character on its own merits. No rallies

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt

there was a big rally for L-Block in that match

now L-Block can still beat Kefka because he's Kefka and L-Block will probably always have the most staying power of any joke character because of 2007, but yeah
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I just got to that part of the podcast!

Was that really a rally? that match had only 39K votes. Granted the other ones near it in timing were high 20s/low 30s, so if thats a rally it was pretty small. Where did it come from anyway?

And then next match had:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/5259-character-battle-ix-division-7-final-samus-vs-l-block-vs
Which is still a really solid performance. Was it still rallied here? This one being at 52K was basically the average vote total for that round, Draven et all not withstanding

As for Rivaly Rumble... well i've been told that multiple times and why not! Sure the voter psyche is different for something like that, like caring about the rivalry itself- but I'm going to go ahead and say while it undoubted helped Sub-Zero/Scorp for having 2 strong characters together, and a a boost to care about that rivalry, that Ada and K Rool wouldn't do anything to help Leon and DK, and those "rivalries" I wouldn't think are worth bonus consideration for the rivalry itself... as long as Sub-Zero/Scorp are consistent match to match there, which I don't see why not... Give DK the ol' Nintendo boost even if that's only minor here and that does it for me.

Some characters like Red with Blue would be made wayyy stronger by the quality of the rivalry itself - where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. I really can't see that being true with K Rool added to DK, which you would have to assume if you think Leon beats DK given those results.
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Great episode
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