Board 8 > Avengers Endgame - spoiler discussion topic 2 (SPOILERS)

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Lopen posted...

I think I liked the time travel thing but yeah I was kinda hoping for something more unpredictable to happen somewhere in there, I think. Just some sorta unforeseen issue from screwing with time and infinity stones. Loki obviously would've been fun but like, just any non-Thanos interference, really. Dormammu showing up because he wasn't being checked by the time stone even. That would've been a nice "well you just made things worse" moment cause like, Thanos kinda peaked in Infinity War, right? The end of movie fight with him was kinda anti-climatic in a way. Thanos with no stones is weaker than Thanos with 1 or 4 or 6 stones which we'd previously seen so... yeahhh...

I think all of this stuff is coming later. There are too many villains in Marvel that deal with time travel and messing with the timeline to just ignore what the heroes did in this movie.
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Possibly. Certainly it's a good idea to lead into another bad.

In the vacuum of the movie though I think lowest power level Thanos we'd seen in the movies being the final boss was a bit weird either way.

(well, technically second lowest power behind exhausted Thanos from the beginning of the movie, so I guess there was escalation relative to the beginning of the movie, ha ha)
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EG Thanos may have been lower in power but he was much more brutal and bloodthirsty in combat which I think made the difference. IW Thanos held back a lot and just wanted to see his work done, convinced the universe would be grateful after.

EG saw that they wouldn't and was going all out.
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Yeah, EG Thanos was "stronger" than IW Thanos w/some stones because he was just bloodthirsty and legit just wanted to kill all of them, and then you toss in the fact that he brought a bunch of armies with him and it's a big deal. IW Thanos was definitely holding back and at no point was actually trying to just eradicate them like he is in EG. The whole point is basically... Just imagine what'd happen if EG Thanos got the stones, and thus why it's so important they win that fight.
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Yeah I guess that's fair. Maybe the issue was just Thanos as a bad can't hold my interest for 6 hours of movie? I don't know. I'm just saying the final fight was probably a step down from most of the IW fight scenes, for me, even if Thanos was trying to take lives (ironically his body count was higher when he wasn't trying to kill people)

It was still alright as a fight, but yeah I think the other Marvel movies generally were really good at putting the best fights and moments at the end and this one not as much. Maybe I'm comparing it with Infinity War more than I should be.
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Lopen posted...

(ironically his body count was higher when he wasn't trying to kill people)

...I really beg to differ.
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In fairness there is something fantastic about Scarlet Witch moving those two rocks and floating in the air before she attacks Thanos

That shot, with her costume color matching her energy and the way she's centred within it, is one of my favourites of the movie
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Movie Thor is more like Comic Hercules.
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Lopen posted...

Yeah I guess that's fair. Maybe the issue was just Thanos as a bad can't hold my interest for 6 hours of movie? I don't know. I'm just saying the final fight was probably a step down from most of the IW fight scenes, for me, even if Thanos was trying to take lives (ironically his body count was higher when he wasn't trying to kill people)

It was still alright as a fight, but yeah I think the other Marvel movies generally were really good at putting the best fights and moments at the end and this one not as much. Maybe I'm comparing it with Infinity War more than I should be.

Idk why you're so focused on his power level. He was fighting 2 of the strongest avengers at once and fairly easy dealing with them. The only one who have him any trouble at was Captain Marvel and then she was taken out quick lol. Base Thanos is still a crazy strong threat. Remember how easily he took out the Hulk at the beginning of IW?

Idk you just sound really nitpicky.
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Scarlet Witch had him beat too but that doesn't really detract from it

Waluigi1 posted...

Base Thanos is still a crazy strong threat. Remember how easily he took out the Hulk at the beginning of IW?

That's Thanos with the Power Stone IIRC, not base Thanos.
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Watched last night, wasn't sure how it could live up to the hype but then the Ant Man+stone hunting act was pure fun and then hot damn the climax battle.

Without repeating highlights that've probably already been covered over I just gotta laugh that ever since keeping the time skip seemed to be the goal I couldn't help but think about how award that is for Spider-Man who must have every relevant character dusted so his class mates aren't graduated ahead of him... or maybe he gets some new important classmates who were previously 5 grades below him

Speaking of, the Peter Starker relationship always pays off for me so much oh man, from early in Stark looking at his framed photo of Parker I was feeling it

Also about the "girl power" scene I could tell right away that would stick out as forced to people but honestly that kind of girl power feminism is just a very real-life occurrence itself so I had no qualms with it in the movie. Like I could see real female superheroes sticking together just the same way.
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Lopen posted...

That's Thanos with the Power Stone IIRC, not base Thanos.

The stones glow whenever he's using them - he beat Hulk down at base strength.
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I've seen people complain about Thanos being too weak in this movie and too strong.

I think he's consistent with Infinity War - he's the same level of strength he was there. And I don't think Infinity War ever indicates that he's physically stronger because he possesses the gems. They just grant him very powerful abilities he can activate (one of which is to become stronger).

That's one of the brilliant things about Infinity War; how it utilizes the gauntlet. When a gem is glowing, that means he's activated it's ability. When he opens a portal, the blue gem glows. When he turns Quill's shots and Gamoras dagger to bubbles, the red gem glows. When he needs to make himself stronger, the purple gem glows. They don't ever explain it, it's just something that occurs naturally as he uses the gauntlets powers throughout the movie and is very consistent. If no gem is glowing, I don't think he's utilizing the gauntlets power.

When he beats down the Hulk, no gems are glowing. It's just his own strength. He's not that strong because the gems are powering him up; it's because he's that strong that he can utilize the gems power with no repercussions.

Edit: damn you for making my post sooner in much less words
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I mean the power stone when actively used gives him the ability to like, shoot energy blasts and crap but I thought the implication was that it increased his physical strength passively as well. Maybe not, I guess. If not I'd probably chalk that up to Hulk being inconsistent though given Thanos's battles across the movies. Like I think Hulk's general level of power shown seems a bit higher than Thanos's without using wizardry.
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Just saw the movie

Beer gut Thor sucked

Everything else was very good

Captain America wielding Mjolnir is A+++
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The Hulk's strength might be a bit higher than Thanos's, I guess. Thanos's defeat of the Hulk actually isn't a display of overwhelming power. It's a display of power around the Hulks level combined with an overwhelming amount of skill. He tears the Hulk apart because he's much better at fighting than the Hulk, not because he's much stronger.
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I guess I'll put it another way though

Iron Man + Spider-Man + Doctor Strange + Mantis + Drax + Quill seemed like they basically beat Thanos with 4 or 5 Stones in Infinity War if Quill wasn't a dumbass. Maybe I'm forgetting someone but that was roughly the group. Nebula might've been there. Anyway point is when the final battle is those 6 of 7 + a bunch of other people vs Thanos without the stones it feels like we're de-escalating a bit, especially since the army scenario was basically the ending of Infinity War.

Anyway honestly I didn't have much of a problem with the scene, liked it even in a "hell yeah these guys are badasses doing badass things" kinda way, so this is kinda nitpicking don't get me wrong. I'm just explaining why I kinda was hoping for a bit more somewhere, why 'just' fighting Thanos kinda stopped doing it for me as much after 2 long movies with a bunch of cool fight scenes.
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But it's not just Thanos... it's Thanos + the children of Thanos + the full force of his army all together. I don't see why this would not be intimidating. It's an imposing force whether he has the stones or not. I don't see any reason they need to escalate his threat level.... their threat has already been well established.
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Lopen posted...

I guess I'll put it another way though

Iron Man + Spider-Man + Doctor Strange + Mantis + Drax + Quill seemed like they basically beat Thanos with 4 or 5 Stones in Infinity War if Quill wasn't a dumbass. Maybe I'm forgetting someone but that was roughly the group. Nebula might've been there. Anyway point is when the final battle is those 6 of 7 + a bunch of other people vs Thanos without the stones it feels like we're de-escalating a bit, especially since the army scenario was basically the ending of Infinity War.

Anyway honestly I didn't have much of a problem with the scene, liked it even in a "hell yeah these guys are badasses doing badass things" kinda way, so this is kinda nitpicking don't get me wrong. I'm just explaining why I kinda was hoping for a bit more somewhere, why 'just' fighting Thanos kinda stopped doing it for me as much after 2 long movies with a bunch of cool fight scenes.

Them beating him was entirely contingent on Mantis though. Remove her and throw in extra people who are better fighters and they still lose

ShatteredElysium posted...

Lopen posted...

I guess I'll put it another way though

Iron Man + Spider-Man + Doctor Strange + Mantis + Drax + Quill seemed like they basically beat Thanos with 4 or 5 Stones in Infinity War if Quill wasn't a dumbass. Maybe I'm forgetting someone but that was roughly the group. Nebula might've been there. Anyway point is when the final battle is those 6 of 7 + a bunch of other people vs Thanos without the stones it feels like we're de-escalating a bit, especially since the army scenario was basically the ending of Infinity War.

Anyway honestly I didn't have much of a problem with the scene, liked it even in a "hell yeah these guys are badasses doing badass things" kinda way, so this is kinda nitpicking don't get me wrong. I'm just explaining why I kinda was hoping for a bit more somewhere, why 'just' fighting Thanos kinda stopped doing it for me as much after 2 long movies with a bunch of cool fight scenes.

Them beating him was entirely contingent on Mantis though. Remove her and throw in extra people who are better fighters and they still lose

This, plus they had time to set up a plan and ambush him on Titan.

There was no time to plan in the final battle in EG. He ambushed them, and the only planning that got done was Strange gathering the reinforcements. Given that he had like thirty minutes to gather the Wakandans, Asgardians, sorcerers, and Ravagers I'm guessing he couldn't tell each much other than "Get ready for a big fight with Thanos, gonna open a portal" and that's it.
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Lopen posted...

Iron Man + Spider-Man + Doctor Strange + Mantis + Drax + Quill seemed like they basically beat Thanos with 4 or 5 Stones in Infinity War if Quill wasn't a dumbass. Maybe I'm forgetting someone but that was roughly the group. Nebula might've been there. Anyway point is when the final battle is those 6 of 7 + a bunch of other people vs Thanos without the stones it feels like we're de-escalating a bit, especially since the army scenario was basically the ending of Infinity War.

They had time to plan and laid a specific trap for him, and yeah - Mantis was the key. Once the plan went out the window Thanos beat them all pretty easily, apart from one drop of blood. Thanos attacked Cap, Panther, Black Widow, Okoye, Groot, Rocket, Hulkbuster, War Machine, Falcon, and (an admittedly distracted) Scarlet Witch/Vision, and beat them relatively easily because they weren't expecting him.

I kinda get what you mean about Thanos seeming beatable in IW, but the circumstances were radically different. He beat Hulk with his bare hands and no stones even after being jumped.
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Yeah I think people are really over-estimating how much of a boost the stones give Thanos. The power stone is really the only one giving him an offensive advantage, he only ever uses the other stones defensively. I never saw the stones giving him any passive abilities but maybe something in the movies contradicts that thought.
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It's certainly possible I'm 'wrong' on this but yeah I'll just say I disagree with the rebuts that time to plan and whatever else makes it sufficiently feel like escalation and honestly any villain who lasts that long in a movie series with a lot of fighting I'm probably gonna feel similarly about.

I mean "useful defensively" is a big deal considering the main thing against Thanos is a numbers disadvantage. Not sure why we're downplaying that.

Does that mean making Thanos more unbeatable in IW is a good idea? I wouldn't say that because they were good fight scenes in Infinity War. I really liked Infinity War and honestly, this is, again, nitpick territory and probably wouldn't have influenced my enjoyment greatly either way. But yeah like, I'm thinking of other movie series with recurring villains and I'm struggling to think of any that have so many battles across movies. Usually there are more gimmicks or flunkies or whatever involved to not make the fight seem similar multiple times.

Repetitive booking penalty man. TEW was right.
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So finally watched Spider-Man Homecoming.

It was pretty good! Tom Holland is adorable.

But maaan watching Tony interacts with Peter, the unveiling of the new Avengers HQ, and especially the ending where Tony was about to propose to Pepper really make me sad.
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Honestly Thanos kinda feels like an RPG boss.

They fight him a few times and get close to foiling his plan, but at the end of the day, that's really all they're doing. They're getting close to foiling his plan, which is his main motivation at the time, and he always gets away in the end. But then the end of the game comes (get it endgame hahaha) and the plan has already been put into motion and stopped/countered/whatever, so now he's a man with nothing to lose that just wants to destroy everything, plan be damned, and they fight him at full power at the very end. Yes, the "full power" is what's being debated since he had the stones previously, but it's not like he ever used them to their full potential, just like he was never fighting to his own full potential. So at the end of it all, everything is flipped around. The good guys have everything to lose, and Thanos has nothing to lose. And he's pissed.
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It's "I hope they remember you" vs "They can't remember you because then they'll be ungrateful and fuck it all up"
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Random thing I remembered:

I'm the only one who laughed immediately when I saw the rat in Scott Lang's van

Because it was instantly obvious what was about to happen and it was really silly/funny

I was the only person in the theater who had that reaction though

didnt someone in here theorize that the rat is Loki from the timeline where he escaped
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ScareChan posted...

didnt someone in here theorize that the rat is Loki from the timeline where he escaped

But that'd require a different set of time travel rules from the ones used here.
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hombad46 posted...

ScareChan posted...

didnt someone in here theorize that the rat is Loki from the timeline where he escaped

But that'd require a different set of time travel rules from the ones used here.

That was me, and yeah, I acknowledged as much. Mostly a joke on Loki's tendency to shapeshift.

Escaped Loki does have one stone though so you never know!
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Endgame passed Titanic on the highest-grossing films list. Now to see if it can beat Avatar.
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Murphiroth posted...

hombad46 posted...

ScareChan posted...

didnt someone in here theorize that the rat is Loki from the timeline where he escaped

But that'd require a different set of time travel rules from the ones used here.

That was me, and yeah, I acknowledged as much. Mostly a joke on Loki's tendency to shapeshift.

Escaped Loki does have one stone though so you never know!

Could be current timeline Loki who once again faked his death at the hands of Thanos
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1)For people that know is there a Big Bad that is a female? I mean in 22 movies we have always males as bad guys. I thin only Thor 3 had a woman? Aren't there any females?
2)How many different timelines we have now? The original one, the 2012 that Loki escaped, the 2014 one that Thanos traveled forward in time and that is?
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Safer_777 posted...

1)For people that know is there a Big Bad that is a female? I mean in 22 movies we have always males as bad guys. Aren't there any females?
2)How many different timelines we have now? The original one, the 2012 that Loki escaped, the 2014 one that Thanos traveled forward in time and that is?

Hela
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Safer_777 posted...

1)For people that know is there a Big Bad that is a female? I mean in 22 movies we have always males as bad guys. Aren't there any females?

Hela.

Safer_777 posted...

2)How many different timelines we have now? The original one, the 2012 that Loki escaped, the 2014 one that Thanos traveled forward in time and that is?

There're also the timelines created from Tony talking to his dad and Thor talking to his mom. And maybe when Cap went back to live with Peggy, but the directors and writers don't agree if that's a new timeline or not so... whatever.
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Hela is also my personal favorite villain from any of the MCU movies so
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Also Ghost. Though she is more of an anti-villain.
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I don't think it's a for sure that those different missions created different timelines - they could still be the same timeline. Like if you keep messing up the same timeline, it could just be that timeline that's been messed with a few times, rather than splitting out on each mess.
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Well along with different timelines, far from home trailer confirms different universes
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CoolCly posted...

I don't think it's a for sure that those different missions created different timelines - they could still be the same timeline. Like if you keep messing up the same timeline, it could just be that timeline that's been messed with a few times, rather than splitting out on each mess.

Nah, the directors and writers at least both agree that branch timelines are involved. They just seem to differ on Cap's.

Stephen McFeely:

So for us the strongest thing we could do, and the most helpful thing we could do, is to operate under some kind of branch reality, so that the things that have already happened ... which is what ... again, it's time travel which is humanly impossible, but a number of physicists had told us it's much more likely we would operate in a branch reality than a singular timeline. So that's the floor for the time travel conversation.

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ScareChan posted...

Well along with different timelines, far from home trailer confirms different universes

not necessarily. That could just be a Mysterio lie.
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ScareChan posted...

Well along with different timelines, far from home trailer confirms different universes

are we really taking mysterio at his word
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Fury says it and I remember nothing about mysterio
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Isn't Fury saying it from info he got FROM Mysterio?

Like it could still be legit but it's still possible it might be a mixture of lies in as well
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I don't believe that's really Fury.
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what if it's a tie in to the animated movie? like mysterio is lying about alternative universes and the movie is resolved and we're left thinking "oh well I guess it was just mysterio lying." and then BOOM after the credits we get a frame by frame recreation of the spiderverse post credits scene except with mcu peter parker and then see miles morales and Gwen Stacy vwoop into the mcu
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what if they use mutliverse to "link" in the Venom filmverse

...........
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on an unrelated note, I've been reading the thor comics for the first time and thought this exchange was amusingly on point for Endgame.

Thor Godbomb spoilers:
https://imgur.com/LJi71OV
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