Board 8 > Avengers Endgame - spoiler discussion topic 2 (SPOILERS)

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DoomTheGyarados
05/03/19 12:43:37 PM
#251:


SeabassDebeste posted...
i really liked the time travel.

can people explain why they freaked out about cap using mjolnir? i haven't read any comics or seen all the MCU movies


Only Thor uses Mjolnir usually. Only he is worthy. So him picking it up is like "holy shit Cap is the best."
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XIII_rocks
05/03/19 12:43:41 PM
#252:


Because nobody but Thor (and Hela) can lift it

There's a whole scene in Age of Ultron where all the Avengers try and fail, though Cap nudges it slightly because he's worthy but not worthy enough I guess?
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TheRock1525
05/03/19 12:44:18 PM
#253:


I fundamentally disagree but it's pretty hard to type out a full fledged response on a phone.
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DoomTheGyarados
05/03/19 12:44:19 PM
#254:


XIII_rocks posted...
Because nobody but Thor (and Hela) can lift it

There's a whole scene where all the Avengers try and fail, though Cap nudges it slightly because he's kind of worthy


Head canon: he purposefully didn't pick it up to be nice.
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SeabassDebeste
05/03/19 12:44:45 PM
#255:


didn't know about the "worthiness" thing and hadn't seen avengers 2 - thanks!
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XIII_rocks
05/03/19 12:45:53 PM
#256:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
Because nobody but Thor (and Hela) can lift it

There's a whole scene where all the Avengers try and fail, though Cap nudges it slightly because he's kind of worthy


Head canon: he purposefully didn't pick it up to be nice.


Yeah I like that explanation more because the alternative is like I said - he's "sort of" worthy when it really should be one or the other.
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SeabassDebeste
05/03/19 12:45:59 PM
#257:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Time travel is better because this is a movie literally revisiting the entire saga. This is one big love letter to people who watched every MCU movie, even the bad ones (Thor 2) and making them matter all the more. Time travel was the correct decision because it is the best way to bring us all back to these moments.

i'm not even a big MCU guy and i loved this revisiting! everything except hawkeye and black widow's scene, which felt like a reaaally boring retread

related q about mythology - what's the deal with "hail hydra"?
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XIII_rocks
05/03/19 12:47:56 PM
#258:


It's how members of Hydra greet each other
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XIII_rocks
05/03/19 12:48:41 PM
#259:


You really should watch the Cap trilogy, all 3 are either so good or so, so good
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IfGodCouldDie
05/03/19 12:53:35 PM
#260:


XIII_rocks posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
Because nobody but Thor (and Hela) can lift it

There's a whole scene where all the Avengers try and fail, though Cap nudges it slightly because he's kind of worthy


Head canon: he purposefully didn't pick it up to be nice.


Yeah I like that explanation more because the alternative is like I said - he's "sort of" worthy when it really should be one or the other.

I heard an explanation that I liked, he is worthy but doing it for the sake of a party game prevented him from actually picking it up or something along those lines, but I gotta say the not picking it up to be nice is much better.
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Bane_Of_Despair
05/03/19 12:54:33 PM
#261:


I think the thing about Endgame is that it is pretty much 100% just pure fan service, and while in most cases that's a not great thing it actually works here. After 21 movies it fully justifies and earns its place in reveling in such fan service.
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bryans7
05/03/19 12:55:32 PM
#262:


And Vision only lifted it because he's a cyborg so that's a technicality.
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Snrkiko
05/03/19 12:56:21 PM
#263:


how does mjonjir work actually

like an elevator can lift it, but presumably if it's sitting on a desk (like in the age of Ultron scene), can someone walk away with the desk? or if it was stuck in the crater from thor 1, could wanda mind powers the ground beneath it?
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Murphiroth
05/03/19 12:58:34 PM
#264:


TheRock1525 posted...
Like we are literally arguing about "how would find the stones?" in a movie where Tony Stark figured out time travel in one night.

I don't mind people enjoying the time travel element but please don't insult my intelligence by saying finding the stones would somehow be more contrived than solving time travel before bed time.


He didn't figure it out in one night. It's implied he's been working on it for a while and Scott gave him the last bit of info he needed. Before he runs the simulation he tells Friday to run "one more simulation" as he had something new he wanted to try.
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IfGodCouldDie
05/03/19 12:59:19 PM
#265:


Also, finally watched Endgame yesterday. Despite having read spoilers all week and keeping up with spoiler topics, I loved every freaking minute of it. Ronin was probably my favourite part of the movie.
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Waluigi1
05/03/19 12:59:32 PM
#266:


Snrkiko posted...
how does mjonjir work actually

like an elevator can lift it, but presumably if it's sitting on a desk (like in the age of Ultron scene), can someone walk away with the desk? or if it was stuck in the crater from thor 1, could wanda mind powers the ground beneath it?

It's kinda shakey about these things it seems.
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Murphiroth
05/03/19 1:00:26 PM
#267:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
Because nobody but Thor (and Hela) can lift it

There's a whole scene where all the Avengers try and fail, though Cap nudges it slightly because he's kind of worthy


Head canon: he purposefully didn't pick it up to be nice.


Yeah I like that explanation more because the alternative is like I said - he's "sort of" worthy when it really should be one or the other.

I heard an explanation that I liked, he is worthy but doing it for the sake of a party game prevented him from actually picking it up or something along those lines, but I gotta say the not picking it up to be nice is much better.


I prefer the theory that he was burdened at the time with the guilt of not telling Tony about Bucky's part in Howard and Maria's deaths.
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IfGodCouldDie
05/03/19 1:01:25 PM
#268:


Murphiroth posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
Because nobody but Thor (and Hela) can lift it

There's a whole scene where all the Avengers try and fail, though Cap nudges it slightly because he's kind of worthy


Head canon: he purposefully didn't pick it up to be nice.


Yeah I like that explanation more because the alternative is like I said - he's "sort of" worthy when it really should be one or the other.

I heard an explanation that I liked, he is worthy but doing it for the sake of a party game prevented him from actually picking it up or something along those lines, but I gotta say the not picking it up to be nice is much better.


I prefer the theory that he was burdened at the time with the guilt of not telling Tony about Bucky's part in Howard and Maria's deaths.

Did he know about that during AoU?
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Murphiroth
05/03/19 1:02:21 PM
#269:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
Murphiroth posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
Because nobody but Thor (and Hela) can lift it

There's a whole scene where all the Avengers try and fail, though Cap nudges it slightly because he's kind of worthy


Head canon: he purposefully didn't pick it up to be nice.


Yeah I like that explanation more because the alternative is like I said - he's "sort of" worthy when it really should be one or the other.

I heard an explanation that I liked, he is worthy but doing it for the sake of a party game prevented him from actually picking it up or something along those lines, but I gotta say the not picking it up to be nice is much better.


I prefer the theory that he was burdened at the time with the guilt of not telling Tony about Bucky's part in Howard and Maria's deaths.

Did he know about that during AoU?


He found out in Winter Soldier.
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IfGodCouldDie
05/03/19 1:04:23 PM
#270:


Murphiroth posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Murphiroth posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
Because nobody but Thor (and Hela) can lift it

There's a whole scene where all the Avengers try and fail, though Cap nudges it slightly because he's kind of worthy


Head canon: he purposefully didn't pick it up to be nice.


Yeah I like that explanation more because the alternative is like I said - he's "sort of" worthy when it really should be one or the other.

I heard an explanation that I liked, he is worthy but doing it for the sake of a party game prevented him from actually picking it up or something along those lines, but I gotta say the not picking it up to be nice is much better.


I prefer the theory that he was burdened at the time with the guilt of not telling Tony about Bucky's part in Howard and Maria's deaths.

Did he know about that during AoU?


He found out in Winter Soldier.

Just looked it up, and for some reason I thought WS was after AoU.
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Bane_Of_Despair
05/03/19 1:56:11 PM
#272:


So I demand this be an extra scene on the blu ray release

https://twitter.com/zurdomon/status/1123782866305994754?s=19
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profDEADPOOL
05/03/19 2:47:57 PM
#273:


TheRock1525 posted...
Like we are literally arguing about "how would find the stones?" in a movie where Tony Stark figured out time travel in one night.

I don't mind people enjoying the time travel element but please don't insult my intelligence by saying finding the stones would somehow be more contrived than solving time travel before bed time.

He clearly didn't figure it out overnight and had worked on it previously.
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CoolCly
05/03/19 3:15:42 PM
#274:


SeabassDebeste posted...


related q about mythology - what's the deal with "hail hydra"?


This is a fun one, and BIG spoilers but it turns out that SHIELD has been infiltrated by Hydra all along and many SHIELD agents are Hydra agents (which is a group of bad people, to put it simply). There's several times when Hydra agents need to identify themselves to eachother, so they'll whisper Hail Hydra and allow eachother to carry on with their business.

In the Winter Soldier, Cap is working for SHIELD and ends up getting burned by Hydra - there's an elevator scene where Cap gets into an elevator and as it's going down the building it stops on several floors as more and more people get in. They are all Hydra agents with orders to take down Cap. It's very tense until the fighting starts. The guys in the elevator scene in Endgame were all of the same guys - it's practically a shot for shot remake. Then when the tension is about to boil over and the fight starts exactly like in Winter soldier.... Cap leans over and says Hail Hydra, indicating to them all that he's in on it. So they let him take the staff.

Goddamn that was good.
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CoolCly
05/03/19 3:24:55 PM
#275:


TheRock1525 posted...
Snrkiko posted...
that would have required each stone's location to get a bunch of exposition and some sort of conflict or something to make each stone worth finding.


So basically what we got minus time travel plus the possibility of new characters and interactions.


this is an extremely short sighted idea - so an overstuffed movie with a million characters needed more characters, which would all require more time to set up to not feel shoehorned in, instead of visiting familiar and well liked characters for interesting new interactions with no necessary set up?

Bane_Of_Despair posted...
I think the thing about Endgame is that it is pretty much 100% just pure fan service, and while in most cases that's a not great thing it actually works here. After 21 movies it fully justifies and earns its place in reveling in such fan service.


I dislike comments like this - "100% just pure fanservice."

What does that even mean? Does this mean it's no substance, intended to pander to a fanbase?

Cap picking up the hammer was amazing. It's a payoff to all these movies where we've seen his strength of character, combined with the lore and history of Thor's Hammer and those who are worthy.

The elevator scene recreates a scene we already liked from Winter Soldier - and references a comic book story that everyone was upset about where Cap was revealed to be a member of Hydra.

Tony has a conversation with his dad about fatherhood - something he's been experiencing in this film with his daughter, and his own strained relationship with his dad has been a part of several movies in the MCU before this.

All of these can be called "fanservice".... but does that mean it doesn't have substance? Or are these the payoff of long well developed character arcs and scenes?

I've seen a lot of people say Endgame is "Just a bunch of fanservice" and it boggles my mind. They are showing tons of awesome scenes that we'd love to see... but they don't do any of it just out of nowhere just to have it in there. It's all the natural result of everything they've done so far in the MCU.

It could be "fanservice" in addition to everything else it is, but calling it "just fanservice" triggers the hell out of me.
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Bane_Of_Despair
05/03/19 3:27:12 PM
#276:


Oh I meant that in the best way possible, it was not a negative at all. Like it's all been building up to this fan service. I even said it totally earns its fan service.
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CoolCly
05/03/19 3:33:32 PM
#277:


Sorry, you do say it earned it pretty thoroughly, I just wanted to comment on the "just fanservice" phrasing in general I've seen a lot of people do, and I've seen it used disparagingly, as if this film just wanted to do a bunch of stuff for it's fanbase without accomplishing anything of value on it's own. Which I could not disagree with more.
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Bane_Of_Despair
05/03/19 3:39:59 PM
#278:


Also more people should take notice of the tweet I linked imo
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StealThisSheen
05/03/19 4:59:59 PM
#279:


Bane_Of_Despair posted...
Also more people should take notice of the tweet I linked imo


It makes me remember that one of my favorite scenes, for as dumb and small as it is, is when Hulk and Thor are having that kinda heart to heart at New Asgard, and even Korg is trying to be quiet and solemn at the moment, but Miek is just sitting there shoving pizza into his face.
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Hardcore_Adult
05/03/19 5:12:23 PM
#280:


Literally back from it this evening. Soon as work ended I jumped right on the bus and went right the cinema, oh boy did it ever piss down! (London, par for the course, Rain is factory setting for us as is Sunshine for Florida)

Anyhow, enjoyed it. The Entire House cheered during the final battle.

Funnier than I was expecting. Thor, Hulk, Tony and Rocket were the MVPS, ja, fight me.

I don't know HTF I avoided spoilers, lucky I don't keep a lot of people in close prox these days. Only thing souring me were the two dorks (harmless enough) next to me rabbiting on but they get a pass for being somewhat funny/relevant.
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HanOfTheNekos
05/03/19 5:15:51 PM
#281:


CoolCly posted...
SeabassDebeste posted...


related q about mythology - what's the deal with "hail hydra"?


This is a fun one, and BIG spoilers but it turns out that SHIELD has been infiltrated by Hydra all along and many SHIELD agents are Hydra agents (which is a group of bad people, to put it simply). There's several times when Hydra agents need to identify themselves to eachother, so they'll whisper Hail Hydra and allow eachother to carry on with their business.

In the Winter Soldier, Cap is working for SHIELD and ends up getting burned by Hydra - there's an elevator scene where Cap gets into an elevator and as it's going down the building it stops on several floors as more and more people get in. They are all Hydra agents with orders to take down Cap. It's very tense until the fighting starts. The guys in the elevator scene in Endgame were all of the same guys - it's practically a shot for shot remake. Then when the tension is about to boil over and the fight starts exactly like in Winter soldier.... Cap leans over and says Hail Hydra, indicating to them all that he's in on it. So they let him take the staff.

Goddamn that was good.


The best part is that there was a big controversy a few weeks back where in the comics, Cap revealed he was Hydra agent. As said, people were furious... it was COMPLETELY against Cap's character since Hydra is literally his antithesis. It also launched an amazing series of memes that followed the same idea...

https://wjla.com/resources/media/afc8c1ee-8c7f-4deb-9cd2-ab97f845184d-large16x9_CaptainAmericaSteveRogers_Preview4.jpg?1464184971108

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aeGoRpO_460swp.webp

Aside from being an amazing scene with a hilarious and satisfying conclusion, the link to the meme (intentional or not) helped solidify it as the funniest moment in the mcu for me.
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mnkboy907
05/03/19 5:18:54 PM
#282:


Hail alien squid Inhuman.

(AoS spoilers)
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Waluigi1
05/03/19 5:41:11 PM
#283:


More like years ago lol. It's been a while since that.
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HanOfTheNekos
05/03/19 5:43:23 PM
#284:


I meant to say years. Not sure how I typed weeks lol
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DeathChicken
05/03/19 6:24:44 PM
#285:


Also the head goon in the elevator was Crossbones. Or he will be in the span of a few movies (hence Cap picking him out)
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skullbone
05/03/19 6:39:49 PM
#286:


DeathChicken posted...
Also the head goon in the elevator was Crossbones. Or he will be in the span of a few movies (hence Cap picking him out)


Yeah he was in the elevator the first time too
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Snrkiko
05/03/19 6:53:45 PM
#287:


DeathChicken posted...
Also the head goon in the elevator was Crossbones. Or he will be in the span of a few movies (hence Cap picking him out)

wasn't he already crossbones in civil war
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StealThisSheen
05/03/19 7:02:14 PM
#288:


Snrkiko posted...
DeathChicken posted...
Also the head goon in the elevator was Crossbones. Or he will be in the span of a few movies (hence Cap picking him out)

wasn't he already crossbones in civil war


I think he means at the time of that scene
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Snrkiko
05/03/19 7:09:10 PM
#289:


oh

if ever there was a reason to hate time travel
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Snrkiko
05/03/19 11:15:35 PM
#290:


is thor ever used to comedic effect in the comics as he is in the mcu?

because mcu thor is the best
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redrocket
05/03/19 11:17:06 PM
#291:


Comics Thor is serious business.
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redrocket
05/03/19 11:19:06 PM
#292:


He also talks like Frog.
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Murphiroth
05/03/19 11:24:50 PM
#293:


Snrkiko posted...
is thor ever used to comedic effect in the comics as he is in the mcu?

because mcu thor is the best


Sometimes. Usually as a fish out of water type thing.

Most of the time he's fairly serious.
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Murphiroth
05/03/19 11:33:24 PM
#294:


Comics Thor does get hype shit like this though.

https://imgur.com/gallery/EtDwU
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Snrkiko
05/03/19 11:34:27 PM
#295:


I just started reading the thor comic by Eric ribic, im looking forward to it
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XIII_rocks
05/03/19 11:54:35 PM
#296:


I don't even read the comics but I was so annoyed that "we would have words with thee" wasn't in Age of Ultron
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Lopen
05/04/19 1:09:52 AM
#297:


Finally got around to watching it. I think it was pretty good but kinda lacked big moments I wanted to see. Like, Cap using Mjolnir I can definitely see how that does it for some people but I didn't really care much. I think Scarlet Witch nearly beating the hell out of Thanos was probably the biggest hype moment for me and it's not like I'm some huge Scarlet Witch fan but I dunno something about it was just badass, like if he has no stones she kinda is just stronger than him.

Well, aside from that whole sequence at New York, which was pretty much great all around and the real high point of the movie. I really wanted Loki to have more of an impact after grabbing the Space Stone. He had two more stones he could've nabbed in that same scene, imagine! That whole sequence was kinda weird to me cause like, Loki grabbed the stone, then they just go back and grab the stone from even further in the past. But like, in this timeline 2012 Loki still has the stone and got away, right, meaning he probably didn't get killed by Thanos (who in this timeline time traveled past the time when he killed Loki anyway, giving a second reason that he probably didn't get killed, I think?).

I think I liked the time travel thing but yeah I was kinda hoping for something more unpredictable to happen somewhere in there, I think. Just some sorta unforeseen issue from screwing with time and infinity stones. Loki obviously would've been fun but like, just any non-Thanos interference, really. Dormammu showing up because he wasn't being checked by the time stone even. That would've been a nice "well you just made things worse" moment cause like, Thanos kinda peaked in Infinity War, right? The end of movie fight with him was kinda anti-climatic in a way. Thanos with no stones is weaker than Thanos with 1 or 4 or 6 stones which we'd previously seen so... yeahhh...

It was a good movie though. This is kinda nitpicking in a way. Or just rambling. Whatever.
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ScareChan
05/04/19 1:13:31 AM
#298:


Lopen posted...
Finally got around to watching it. I think it was pretty good but kinda lacked big moments I wanted to see. Like, Cap using Mjolnir I can definitely see how that does it for some people but I didn't really care much. I think Scarlet Witch nearly beating the hell out of Thanos was probably the biggest hype moment for me and it's not like I'm some huge Scarlet Witch fan but I dunno something about it was just badass, like if he has no stones she kinda is just stronger than him.

Well, aside from that whole sequence at New York, which was pretty much great all around and the real high point of the movie. I really wanted Loki to have more of an impact after grabbing the Space Stone. He had two more stones he could've nabbed in that same scene, imagine! That whole sequence was kinda weird to me cause like, Loki grabbed the stone, then they just go back and grab the stone from even further in the past. But like, in this timeline 2012 Loki still has the stone and got away, right, meaning he probably didn't get killed by Thanos (who in this timeline time traveled past the time when he killed Loki anyway, giving a second reason that he probably didn't get killed, I think?).

I think I liked the time travel thing but yeah I was kinda hoping for something more unpredictable to happen somewhere in there, I think. Just some sorta unforeseen issue from screwing with time and infinity stones. Loki obviously would've been fun but like, just any non-Thanos interference, really. Dormammu showing up because he wasn't being checked by the time stone even. That would've been a nice "well you just made things worse" moment cause like, Thanos kinda peaked in Infinity War, right? The end of movie fight with him was kinda anti-climatic in a way. Thanos with no stones is weaker than Thanos with 1 or 4 or 6 stones which we'd previously seen so... yeahhh...

It was a good movie though. This is kinda nitpicking in a way. Or just rambling. Whatever.


but do you think this movie was good or good on a curve
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Lopen
05/04/19 1:14:48 AM
#299:


On a curve? Not great. By MCU standards it was pretty middle of the road all things considered.
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ScareChan
05/04/19 1:15:51 AM
#300:


Lopen posted...
On a curve? Not great. By MCU standards it was pretty middle of the road all things considered.


im just giving you shit from the whole wrestlemania thing
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Lopen
05/04/19 1:18:34 AM
#301:


Just because the movie is long does not make it Wrestlemanialike!
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