Board 8 > Pokemon Sword and Shield to not include all the Pokemon

(+) Yeah! (+)

See I don't necessarily disagree. Weird people who like Zigzagoon should be used to it now but

at least you could get them in the games before this
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ExThaNemesis posted...

See I don't necessarily disagree. Weird people who like Zigzagoon should be used to it now but

at least you could get them in the games before this

Whoa you watch it, Zigzagoon is cute as hell. Better than Eevee imo.
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I'm sorta coming around on the idea of having different Pokemon in every game to kinda force myself to change up teams and stuff

I still think it's a super bad decision but

I think I'd end up fully okay with it if they made a Stadium-esque game for Switch as a place that you could actually battle with all of them
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StealThisSheen posted...

I think I'd end up fully okay with it if they made a Stadium-esque game for Switch as a place that you could actually battle with all of them

the fact that we don't have this yet, complete with minigames, is wild tbh
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They've said that they don't see a need for a Stadium like game now that the main games are in 3D. So I wouldn't count on that happening any time soon.
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StealThisSheen posted...

I think they said it because there are a lot of idiots out there going "This means if the Pokemon isn't in Sword/Shield it'll never be in a game again!!1one"

To be fair, if you have two favorite pokemon, you may never be able to play with those two pokemon together ever again.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

They've said that they don't see a need for a Stadium like game now that the main games are in 3D. So I wouldn't count on that happening any time soon.

this makes sense. If theyre going to go through the work to put them in any game on the Switch, it may as well be the main series
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StealThisSheen posted...

I think they said it because there are a lot of idiots out there going "This means if the Pokemon isn't in Sword/Shield it'll never be in a game again!!1one"

Who says this? we all know that they are going to rotate the pool between the games
The thing is, in the long run, or hell, even in the short run, there are going to be Pokemon that won't make it into at least TWO games
Let's assume for a moment Sword and Shield will have a Regional Dex of 400. And then the next games are DP remakes, which will also have a Regional Dex of 400
Totalling 800, we will be around 100 Pokemon short
And this is not counting overlap, like every Gen 4 Pokemon in SwSh will also be in DP remakes
So even if you go for 500 Pokemon for SwSh and 500 for DP remakes, because of overlap, it might make it possible for some Pokemon to not be in both games
And going forward it will only be worse, unless they decide to make the regional dex even bigger
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The sad thing is know they're going to use it as a selling point. The trailer for the next game is going to prominently feature a gratuitous shot of something like Jumpluff and you're going to see a bunch of YouTube reaction videos of people screaming and going "OMG Jumpluff is back!!! Thank youuuuuu!"
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Maybe in 2030 or something we will have "EVERYONE IS HERE" and we will kiss Masuda's feet
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Mewtwo59 posted...

They've said that they don't see a need for a Stadium like game now that the main games are in 3D. So I wouldn't count on that happening any time soon.

this makes sense. If theyre going to go through the work to put them in any game on the Switch, it may as well be the main series

I actually think this makes less sense now. Now the appeal for a stadium like game will be having every single Pokmon together again.
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It'd be cool if Home had like a 2D battle simulator with official new sprites for all the Gen VI-VIII Pokemon.

Having official sprites for all the 3D generation Pokemon is something I've recently realized I really want to see. I know there are a lot of fan-made sprites, but they can be really hit or miss.
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#bringbackgen5sprites
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I'm still perfectly content in my boat of "if the Galar dex has more than enough winners like Corviknight and Yamper then I really don't care what past pokemon might not be in"

I realize this boat is incredibly tiny and does not apply to many other factors that people play the games for but it's a fine little boat for me all the same
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Nanis23 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

I think they said it because there are a lot of idiots out there going "This means if the Pokemon isn't in Sword/Shield it'll never be in a game again!!1one"

Who says this? we all know that they are going to rotate the pool between the games
The thing is, in the long run, or hell, even in the short run, there are going to be Pokemon that won't make it into at least TWO games
Let's assume for a moment Sword and Shield will have a Regional Dex of 400. And then the next games are DP remakes, which will also have a Regional Dex of 400
Totalling 800, we will be around 100 Pokemon short
And this is not counting overlap, like every Gen 4 Pokemon in SwSh will also be in DP remakes
So even if you go for 500 Pokemon for SwSh and 500 for DP remakes, because of overlap, it might make it possible for some Pokemon to not be in both games
And going forward it will only be worse, unless they decide to make the regional dex even bigger

What's really ridiculous is the reason for leaving out Pokemon they cited was the time to model/texture/animate/etc nearly 1000 Pokemon. Not that the games couldn't fit them all, just that they couldn't create graphics for all of them. But if that's the case, everything that's in Sword & Shield should be in the DP remakes or Ultra Sword & Shield or whatever the second set of Gen 8 games is, because they all have Gen 8 models and animations created. And all the new Pokemon they put into those games that didn't make Sword & Shield should be patched into those games because now they have graphics made too. But from what it sounds like, and knowing Game Freak, none of this will happen and we'll just have to deal with Gotta Catch 400 Of Em from now on.
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Also, it wasn't even Game Freak who made the X and Y models. It was Creatures. They made 700+ high quality models from scratch in X and Y's development and you're telling me they can't touch up the 800 models they have and make 100ish from scratch in the same amount of time? Especially since they've already touched up the Gen 1 models for Let's Go. I'm sure Creatures could do it, Game Freak just doesn't want them to.
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MrGreenonion posted...

Nanis23 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

I think they said it because there are a lot of idiots out there going "This means if the Pokemon isn't in Sword/Shield it'll never be in a game again!!1one"

Who says this? we all know that they are going to rotate the pool between the games
The thing is, in the long run, or hell, even in the short run, there are going to be Pokemon that won't make it into at least TWO games
Let's assume for a moment Sword and Shield will have a Regional Dex of 400. And then the next games are DP remakes, which will also have a Regional Dex of 400
Totalling 800, we will be around 100 Pokemon short
And this is not counting overlap, like every Gen 4 Pokemon in SwSh will also be in DP remakes
So even if you go for 500 Pokemon for SwSh and 500 for DP remakes, because of overlap, it might make it possible for some Pokemon to not be in both games
And going forward it will only be worse, unless they decide to make the regional dex even bigger

What's really ridiculous is the reason for leaving out Pokemon they cited was the time to model/texture/animate/etc nearly 1000 Pokemon. Not that the games couldn't fit them all, just that they couldn't create graphics for all of them. But if that's the case, everything that's in Sword & Shield should be in the DP remakes or Ultra Sword & Shield or whatever the second set of Gen 8 games is, because they all have Gen 8 models and animations created. And all the new Pokemon they put into those games that didn't make Sword & Shield should be patched into those games because now they have graphics made too. But from what it sounds like, and knowing Game Freak, none of this will happen and we'll just have to deal with Gotta Catch 400 Of Em from now on.

You know..I..really didn't think about it
But yes, they will probably drop some stupid reason for not patching it, something like "it's a different engine" and people will prove that it's the same engine, but they won't care. Or they just won't say anything at all
Remember, XY was compatible with ORAS, but only 99%
They never bothered patching XY to fix this headache, even though we are talking about only 3 new moves and 22 mega evolutions..and uh, Cosplay Pikachu I guess
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Same with USUM. They could've patched in the new Pokemon and Z-Moves, but they didn't. Heck, they could've just made the Necrozma and Rainbow Rocket stuff paid DLC for vanilla SM, and they didn't.
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

I'm still perfectly content in my boat of "if the Galar dex has more than enough winners like Corviknight and Yamper then I really don't care what past pokemon might not be in"

I realize this boat is incredibly tiny and does not apply to many other factors that people play the games for but it's a fine little boat for me all the same

It's not really that small of a boat. There's a poll on Resetera, a website that thrives on internet outrage, and even there, only ~12% of people aren't buying S/S because of cut Pokemon (there are of course other people not buying it for other reasons). I bring this up mostly because surely the general/casual audience is more forgiving/oblivious to this situation than video game forum posters, so this decision is most likely going to have a minuscule impact on sales.

For the record, 30% of people are unhappy about the decision but are still going to by it anyway, and 47% just don't care that it won't have all Pokemon.
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

I'm still perfectly content in my boat of "if the Galar dex has more than enough winners like Corviknight and Yamper then I really don't care what past pokemon might not be in"

I realize this boat is incredibly tiny and does not apply to many other factors that people play the games for but it's a fine little boat for me all the same

mnkboy907 posted...

It'd be cool if Home had like a 2D battle simulator with official new sprites for all the Gen VI-VIII Pokemon.

These are my boats. I always use a new team for each generation (not necessarily current gen, but pokemon that have never been on my main team before).

I get other people being mad (collectors, serious battlers, etc.), but I think it's fixed if Home is not just a rotbox but, like, a canonical place where you can battle and do stuff with your pokemon.
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Drakeryn posted...

I get other people being mad (collectors, serious battlers, etc.), but I think it's fixed if Home is not just a rotbox but, like, a canonical place where you can battle and do stuff with your pokemon.

I think this is the important point for me. I'm a bit sad because of competitive play, but it wont damge my enjoyment of the games themselves slightly.

But that's only if Home is not a rotbox you're paying to use, and that's not something I'm expecting.
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Remember Home will be on mobile, and you will need at least just Pokemon Go to use it, which is free
The idea of them making a cellphone app lwtting you replace the main games is impossible
Besides, it won't have the 3D models and animations of every Pokemon, why would it be in Home and not in Sword and Shield?
And something like Showdown will never happen as well

So by using those Pokemon, as they said, I expect something like The Dream World or Poke Pelago, not battling
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Why would you need Pokmon Go to use home?
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Also, it wasn't even Game Freak who made the X and Y models. It was Creatures. They made 700+ high quality models from scratch in X and Y's development and you're telling me they can't touch up the 800 models they have and make 100ish from scratch in the same amount of time? Especially since they've already touched up the Gen 1 models for Let's Go. I'm sure Creatures could do it, Game Freak just doesn't want them to.

Didn't even think of this.

Argument over. Game Freak sucks.
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Can anyone fill me in again on why anybody cares about this? Haven't all the Pokemon games had a restricted dex for the mainline with a Nat Dex only unlockable in the post-game (aka who cares time)?
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RyoCaliente posted...

Can anyone fill me in again on why anybody cares about this? Haven't all the Pokemon games had a restricted dex for the mainline with a Nat Dex only unlockable in the post-game (aka who cares time)?

You dont seem to understand the issue. The problem is that some Pokmon just plain wont be available to use in Sword and Shield. Period. No until post game. No other caveats.
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If a Pokemon can't be put in a game, they can't be used for competitive battling at all. In the official VGC format typically the first year of a gen restricts Pokemon to the regional Dex and opens it up to National Dex the following year. This gen, they can never go past Regional Dex (perhaps Extended Regional Dex when the third version come out). For fan formats like what Smogon does it is an open question whether to allow Pokemon that don't exist to be used in OU. Of course it is still possible to just make up a best guess regarding what a Pokemon would be like if they could be used. In the Ruby/Sapphire pre-FRLG days, full dex was more popular then Regional Dex even though many Pokemon were not available. But in that case we could at least take their data from the game to know what moves they can use.

In terms of in-game progression, some people like to trade in Pokemon that aren't in the Regional Dex to play through the game. We can have multiple save files so this is would have been a good gen to try and play through the game with different exotic Pokemon.
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hombad46 posted...

RyoCaliente posted...

Can anyone fill me in again on why anybody cares about this? Haven't all the Pokemon games had a restricted dex for the mainline with a Nat Dex only unlockable in the post-game (aka who cares time)?

You dont seem to understand the issue. The problem is that some Pokmon just plain wont be available to use in Sword and Shield. Period. No until post game. No other caveats.

No, I get it, but again, is that really such a big deal? As far as I can see, it'll shake things up a bit, rather than seeing the same Pokemon for the umpteenth time.

I mean, I can understand this might get abused (can't wait for Pokemon lootboxes!), but as of right now, I don't really see the issue.
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The issue was just explained to you and you still don't understand? Are you just being dense?
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If you just play through the main game once and then never again, then sure it doesn't matter.

But being able to use other Pokemon in post game and replays is a big deal to a lot of people.
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

In terms of in-game progression, some people like to trade in Pokemon that aren't in the Regional Dex to play through the game. We can have multiple save files so this is would have been a good gen to try and play through the game with different exotic Pokemon.

Yeah, this is a good point. With this being the first real game with multiple save files it would've been great if you could transfer old Pokemon up and do a playthrough with them. I've never done it since I didn't want to delete my save, but now that it's not a problem anymore I still can't do it.
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Waluigi1 posted...

Why would you need Pokmon Go to use home?

I said, at least
You will need one game to transfer Pokemon over to Home
So it's either Bank (which you paid for previous games and the subscription fee) or SwSh which cost $60 or Let's Go which also cost $60...or Pokemon Go, which is free
So do you really think they will let people that play Pokemon Go have access to a regular battle system for free? no
And again, this is in case it happens..but it won't. They will never make battling possible outside of the main games
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They put battling in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee even though that's a spin off.
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I mean Pokemon Go has battling, even if it's not the "regular" system, which by the argument being made, it'd be counter-productive to put ANY kind of battling in a free game but they did it

I don't think there will be battling in Home. Just saying the argument is flawed.
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

They put battling in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee even though that's a spin off.

They were said to be mainline games when they were announced
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I was poking fun at Nanis23 for making this comment earlier:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77781372/923380541
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RyoCaliente posted...

As far as I can see, it'll shake things up a bit, rather than seeing the same Pokemon for the umpteenth time.

The new champion's signature pokemon is Charizard. Seems more likely to me that we will be seeing more of the same as the less popular pokemon get removed, rather than the other way around
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Stadium, Colosseum/XD, and Battle Revolution aren't exactly main games.

Not to mention Go doesn't have any way of creating competitively viable Pokemon, so the Pokemon transferred in would be shit to battle with anyway.
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As if Pokemon Go battling by tapping the screen is actually considered battling
Same for Let's Go, with limited move pools, no abilities, no held items
If you want a watered down battling, sure, maybe
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Isn't the whole argument basically "Gamefreak aren't going to give people battling in anything but mainline games because it'd hurt the appeal of mainline games?"

Something like Pokemon Go isn't going to pull fans of the mainline games away, no, but adding battling to it surely impacted the amount of people that would make the jump from Go to a full priced mainline game since they have easier battling on the go.

So they've already showed a willingness, through things like Go and Let's Go, to give casual fans an alternative, which is what makes the argument not very strong.

Obviously that's still a far cry from thinking they'll add battling to Home, but
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Man it's crazy to see how many pokemon fans are still up in arms about not just this issue, but the lack of polish that the entire game has. It's kind of incredible to watch after US/UM and Let's go fans were willing to defend sooo much, but it's like after this smoking gun of Masuda gaslighting fans they've suddenly awoken to all the crappy things Game Freak has been doing at the fan's expense. I mean I've always been grumpy about pokemon but that's nothing compared to the ire of a fan who realizes that they've been lied to for the past half decade.
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Well cause it's one thing to cut out random features between games but cutting put Pokmon entirely, the entire point of the whole series is a bit of a bigger deal lol
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SantaRPidgey posted...

Man it's crazy to see how many pokemon fans are still up in arms about not just this issue, but the lack of polish that the entire game has. It's kind of incredible to watch after US/UM and Let's go fans were willing to defend sooo much, but it's like after this smoking gun of Masuda gaslighting fans they've suddenly awoken to all the crappy things Game Freak has been doing at the fan's expense. I mean I've always been grumpy about pokemon but that's nothing compared to the ire of a fan who realizes that they've been lied to for the past half decade.

I really don't like this thing you do with Pokemon where you act like because stuff changed, that makes you objectively correct previously, as if you're some sort of prophet. Like when Alolan Persian was revealed and you said something like "see, now everyone agrees that gamefreak could only do designs with generic shapes" or something, rather than it just being Alolan Persian that was an isolated disaster.

It's one thing to be grumpy about Pokemon, it's another thing to condescend with this "I was right all along, see?" stuff. Clearly the stuff you complain about, like the "Kantonian Gym", was not that big a deal to most people, while this is a much bigger deal to them. That does not mean they retrospectively agree with all your other criticisms, it means you were making mountains out of what they perceived to be a molehill, and this is just a mountain full stop.

Edit: Or yeah, what Waluigi said. Alolan Persian doesn't make your previous theories about their design of Pokemon correct, they're entirely different things, and Pokemon fans attacking Masuda now doesn't prove that they were myopic before.
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Looking at waning quality and being grumpy about it going down hill doesn't make me a "prophet" the same way that watching a boulder roll down a hill and jumping out of the way wouldn't make me one.

Obviously the things I noticed, people didn't care about. That's my point. Now that people are angry though, the entire series is going under a type of scrutiny that it's never seen before. 3-D modelers are insulting the animations, side by side comparisons to the n64 games are being cited, people are upset about literal trees in the game, everything that was minor before is fair game now that it's so much more obvious that Game Freak didn't put any care in the game.

Of course this game will still be profitable and sell very well. Every big series that doesn't have expectations coasts for a few games. But Game Freak will keep making it worse, and sooner or later even the most casual of fan will lose interest. THATS my prophecy.
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Right. That post is better because you accept that you cared about things that most people just don't, though the faux-objectivity of "waning quality" is still pretty bad.

"Do people now accept and agree with me that Game Freak aren't very good at design based on this one Pokemon everyone seems to dislike" or "people were blind before about how bad the games are but now, after this massively significant change, they're awake, like I always was" is the problem.

Again, your dislike for the games is not at issue, but your condescension of the fans is. It's word choices like "they've suddenly awoken to all the crappy things Game Freak has been doing at the fan's expense" or "fan who realizes that they've been lied to". That's the stuff I'm talking about when I say you're casting yourself as a "prophet". Like you were the one who was right all along, when really there's been a significant shift. There's a vindictive bitterness about it which, to me anyway, is kind of ugly to read.
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Is it confirmed that you can have every Pokemon in Home?

Also, is it really a bad thing that we won't see that same Pokemon in every single competitive team? I'm excited that they can carve the landscape into whatever they want now.

My request for Pokemon that won't be in the game:
Stealth Rocks

Regional Dex only doesn't do much for Pokemon variety. While it might be a different set than under the National Dex, there will still be a set of common Pokemon that show up on a lot of teams. VGC has done Regional Dex formats in the past and there are just as many complaints about Pokemon variety as under a National Dex format. In terms of Smogon formats, they already had formats that exclude the common OU Pokemon.
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I understand what Santa says
The Dexit was just the straw that broke the camel back
It's like a ugly breakup with your girlfriend that after it you notice how many flaws she had and how much fucked up your relationship was. Things you were willing to ignore while you were "in love"
I was willing to forgive Pokemon for almost everything. Even stuff that annoyed the hell out of me like the no Battle Frontier in ORAS
But now that the Dexit made me so mad, I can't tolerate anything anymore. Every single flaw is making me angry at them, I am much less forgiving
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I def get what Santa means.

I was able to overlook the smaller things before because they still generally gave me what I wanted.

Now they are not giving me that anymore and all of the other stuff I ignored before, well... not so much willing to ignore it now.
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