Poll of the Day > I've genuinely never seen this much bad PR for a game before (Pokemon)

(+) Yeah! (+)

_AdjI_ posted...

really, the National Dex has been a mistake since its inception.

The mistake was making unique garbage in every region instead of pidgey being the pigeon of every region.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

_AdjI_ posted...

really, the National Dex has been a mistake since its inception.

The mistake was making unique garbage in every region instead of pidgey being the pigeon of every region.

That would probably be worse...
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LinkPizza posted...

That would probably be worse...

I'd say making Trubbish was a lot worse than keeping Muk.
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I'd rather have fewer Pokemon but more differences between individual Pokemon.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

That would probably be worse...

I'd say making Trubbish was a lot worse than keeping Muk.

Cant say I agree. I dont mind having different Pokmon. Plus, if they kept making only the same ones over and over again, people would have probably stopped buying them long ago. And would probably complain that they make the same ones over and over again...
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Adding to the list: Evolve.
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I'm playing it now, I really couldn't care less about the national dex because I never attempted to catch em all ever, and I'm sure there's enough good ones in the game

If I really miss a pokemon I'll go back and use it in a different one
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Wow someone really screwed the post earlier on itt.
Over half of the Pokemon are not coded into the game. Even if you have them in another game you cannot transfer them into SwSh.
And anyways there currently isn't even a way to transfer right now anyways.
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LinkPizza posted...

And if you want to say trading is like catching, then you can still catch 'em all. They'll just be in other games

Yeah...other people's games.

You do realize the main point of trading is to trade with other people, right? It's supposed to feel like you're building a real life collection. You're supposed to acquire the pokemon you can't get in your own version by negotiating trades with other people.

With just Ultra Sun you can collect every pokemon in the first 7 gens.

And now Gamefreak's shills want to downplay the importance of collecting, even though Gamefreak still happily sells multiple versions and will charge money for online trading. Pokemon was literally based on bug collecting...like, just imagine if you told a bug collector that they were forbidden from collecting over half of the bugs species in the world. Dexit is stripping Pokemon of part of its soul.

BanjoBoomer posted...

LinkPizza posted...

And if you want to say trading is like catching, then you can still catch 'em all. They'll just be in other games

Yeah...other people's games.

You do realize the main point of trading is to trade with other people, right? It's supposed to feel like you're building a real life collection. You're supposed to acquire the pokemon you can't get in your own version by negotiating trades with other people.

With just Ultra Sun you can collect every pokemon in the first 7 gens.

And now Gamefreak's shills want to downplay the importance of collecting, even though Gamefreak still happily sells multiple versions and will charge money for online trading. Pokemon was literally based on bug collecting...like, just imagine if you told a bug collector that they were forbidden from collecting over half of the bugs species in the world. Dexit is stripping Pokemon of part of its soul.

Except thats not what theyre doing. They want to trade with themselves to fill out a DEX. And to get other Pokmon. Though, at that point, youve already caught them. But are getting them from one game to another. Which is different than trading a Weedle and Caterpie with each other to get them...

So, its like you already built the collection, but just want to move it to a different book (like cards in a binder). So, theres still not really a problem. You dont lose your collection. You just have to leave them in another book...

I dont think they downplayed it, tbh. I mean, you can still Catch em all. Just in different games. And you can still get everything available in the game. Meaning you can catch all the available ones.

And you must realize that 800+ Pokmon is ridiculous. And if they keep adding new Pokmon, its going to get really ridiculous. The cut was going to come at some point. And soon. It just turns out this game is where it happens. Plus, one day, they might possibly give the Pokmon more animations. But they probably wont do it for 1000+ at one time. And they may start rotating them.

And so, in the end, no one in banned from collecting, or not able to collect everything. They just cant move them to another game. They still have them. Theyve already caught them... Its not stripping anything...
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It's not balancing issues.
It's not streamlining.
It's not even a coding issue.

It's just fucking laziness.
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Yeah, lazy feels like the appropriate word for this game

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I have always said that I wish they would stop introducing hundreds and hundreds of Pokemon and just focus on polishing the core experience. (How long did it take us to get to the point where we were moving in more than four directions? Not on a grid? Way too damn long.) But of course they needed new Pokemon to sell more merch. Now they felt the need to cut down on Pokemon and of course people aren't happy.

Pokemon is the highest grossing media franchise. From my perspective as a player, it is obvious they're not using enough of that money to maintain a good quality to their games. But from their perspective, they spend less and still sell a ton so...it's good business. Minus the customer satisfaction aspect for some players. A competitor would be a good motivator to improve, but who do they have? Digimon? It might as well not even exist by comparison, which is a shame.
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LinkPizza posted...

you must realize that 800+ Pokmon is ridiculous.

GT6 had 1200 cars with realistic suspension movement, engine characteristics, weight distribution, etc., etc., etc..

800+ Gamecube pokemon ain't dick.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

you must realize that 800+ Pokmon is ridiculous.

GT6 had 1200 cars with realistic suspension movement, engine characteristics, weight distribution, etc., etc., etc..

800+ Gamecube pokemon ain't dick.

Actually, 1200 is also ridiculous. I think both 1200 and 800 are ridiculous. Just because one game has more than 800 of something doesnt mean the one with less isnt ridiculous. It just means they both are...
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LinkPizza posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

you must realize that 800+ Pokmon is ridiculous.

GT6 had 1200 cars with realistic suspension movement, engine characteristics, weight distribution, etc., etc., etc..

800+ Gamecube pokemon ain't dick.

Actually, 1200 is also ridiculous. I think both 1200 and 800 are ridiculous. Just because one game has more than 800 of something doesnt mean the one with less isnt ridiculous. It just means they both are...

Don't make 800 pokemon then. Please stop making me agree with him, Link.
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EvilMegas posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

you must realize that 800+ Pokmon is ridiculous.

GT6 had 1200 cars with realistic suspension movement, engine characteristics, weight distribution, etc., etc., etc..

800+ Gamecube pokemon ain't dick.

Actually, 1200 is also ridiculous. I think both 1200 and 800 are ridiculous. Just because one game has more than 800 of something doesnt mean the one with less isnt ridiculous. It just means they both are...

Don't make 800 pokemon then. Please stop making me agree with him, Link.

You can agree with him if you want. But making 800+ Pokmon isnt problem. Wanting all 800 in a game (and having all Pokmon from previous games in the newer ones) is the ridiculous part...
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So, having 600 in a portable is fine but 800 on a console is impossible? How?
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EvilMegas posted...

So, having 600 in a portable is fine but 800 on a console is impossible? How?

I didnt say impossible. I said ridiculous. I dont know where you got impossible from. 600 is also ridiculous. The only reason people want it is because they expected it to always be that way. And for you to eventually have thousands of Pokmon available to put on one game because thats how they started.

If they made it so you could only transfer a certain amount or certain Pokmon from the start, this wouldnt be a problem now. Or if every game was only the new Pokmon (or just not every single Pokmon, it would also mean its not a problem.
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Why even make a game franchise if you can't keep doing the one thing that makes the series popular?
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I'm very glad people are finally calling them out, because I like pokemon, and I want them to do better.

I remember when that train wreck pokebank came out, I was one of the only people whining about that trash, everyone else was like "lol it's just $5"

The funniest part about that "backup" system is if your 3DS breaks you lose every pokemon inside of pokebank due to the bank being tied to your physical 3DS.

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EvilMegas posted...

So, having 600 in a portable is fine but 800 on a console is impossible? How?

As a programmer, let me explain why this is nonsense.

They all already have animations, the vast majority of them have walking animations and high res 3D models. They all only needed to be improved slightly and copy/pasted over.

Their excuse is bullshit, because they didn't add any animations, they literally just had to copy/paste them.

Their 3D models + animations + textures don't take up much space at all. I'd bet the entirety of their data takes up less than 50 MB.

And it's nothing a team of about 20 graphic designers can't update either. GF can afford it, and 800/20 = 40 pokemon per designer... I think we could have gotten those extra pokemon in.

I have no idea why this was botched, aside from many things in the series just being poorly thought out. Masuda is basically George Lucas, a genius that needs to be reeled in. Or there's nothing wrong, and he needs more time to make his games.

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EvilMegas posted...

Why even make a game franchise if you can't keep doing the one thing that makes the series popular?

There are. The thing that makes them popular are the Pokmon. The new Pokmon are the real draw to the game. If they kept remaking the same game using the same Pokmon, the franchise would have died out many generations ago. But because they keep making new Pokmon, new regions, and new games, they keep on going. I dont see how keeping every Pokmon from every game is what makes he series popular. Its a mistake they made after a few games. And just kept doing it. Maybe having the Pokmon from one previous game would have been fine. But having all 800 is ridiculous. And thats not what made the series popular...
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I don't want to take the time out to explain why you're wrong.
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EvilMegas posted...

I don't want to take the time out to explain why you're wrong.

Whatever. You can think what you want.
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BanjoBoomer posted...

You do realize the main point of trading is to trade with other people, right? It's supposed to feel like you're building a real life collection. You're supposed to acquire the pokemon you can't get in your own version by negotiating trades with other people.

And you can still do that. Just not for every Pokemon that's ever existed. 400+ is a perfectly respectable number of different things to collect and trade for. That it's less than the 900 possible things that exist at an IP level doesn't mean it's not going to take hundreds of hours of collecting to catch them all.

BanjoBoomer posted...

Pokemon was literally based on bug collecting...like, just imagine if you told a bug collector that they were forbidden from collecting over half of the bugs species in the world.

Roughly a third of insect species worldwide are endangered, meaning collectors indeed should not be collecting them (off-hand, I don't know what the actual legalities are and I presume they vary from region to region). That's not quite as effective an analogy as you thought it was.
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LinkPizza posted...

Except thats not what theyre doing. They want to trade with themselves to fill out a DEX. And to get other Pokmon. Though, at that point, youve already caught them. But are getting them from one game to another. Which is different than trading a Weedle and Caterpie with each other to get them...

So, its like you already built the collection, but just want to move it to a different book (like cards in a binder). So, theres still not really a problem. You dont lose your collection. You just have to leave them in another book...

I dont think they downplayed it, tbh. I mean, you can still Catch em all. Just in different games. And you can still get everything available in the game. Meaning you can catch all the available ones.

And you must realize that 800+ Pokmon is ridiculous. And if they keep adding new Pokmon, its going to get really ridiculous. The cut was going to come at some point. And soon. It just turns out this game is where it happens. Plus, one day, they might possibly give the Pokmon more animations. But they probably wont do it for 1000+ at one time. And they may start rotating them.

And so, in the end, no one in banned from collecting, or not able to collect everything. They just cant move them to another game. They still have them. Theyve already caught them... Its not stripping anything...

Some people transfer from old games, which they then use to trade with people who don't transfer from old games. It's part of the whole collector ecosystem. The point is that no one is required to purchase or play multiple games in order to complete a pokedex, it was up to you if you wanted to play through multiple games or offer trades to someone else who had. But now those pokemon simply can't be obtained whatsoever in Sw/Sh.

And furthermore, moving a collection from one game to another isn't like moving cards to a new binder, it's more like leaving behind part of your collection in the attic in your old house when you move. How many people actually regularly go back to old pokemon games? It's a yearly generational franchise, usually people move on to the new one and the old one gets left behind. Obvious Pokemon Home is supposed to be Gamefreak's way of resolving that issue, but it's pointless because we can't use our pokemon and we have no guaruntee that a given pokemon will ever be in another game at all.

And 800+ Pokemon isn't ridiculous. If Gamefreak had no choice but to include 2000 pokemon in the game in order to make a profit, then they would take the time necessary to add that many to the game. There are far more ambitious games out there, the only difference is the ambitious games can't sell on brand name alone.

But people aren't satisfied with 400 pokemon when they want 800, and that's totally possible. Some people have favorite pokemon, that's half their favorite pokemon being cut.

And there's no good reason from a development perspective. Literally just copy and paste the models and data they already have. Polish slightly where needed with ~20 designers and the millions of dollars of profit.

People aren't in the wrong about being unhappy.

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pokemon games: fun, ok?

hardcore pokemon gamers: garbage people from the feces swamps, ok?
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adjl posted...

And you can still do that. Just not for every Pokemon that's ever existed. 400+ is a perfectly respectable number of different things to collect and trade for. That it's less than the 900 possible things that exist at an IP level doesn't mean it's not going to take hundreds of hours of collecting to catch them all.

Anything less than 100% of existing pokemon (including mega evos and regional forms) is unacceptable. They are porting over models and using a higher resolution version of the 3DS graphics. There is nothing respectable about 400 pokemon in a game under these conditions. If this had been a complete overhaul, like Monster Hunter World to the regular Monster Hunter games, with graphics and mechanics that actually push the Switch hardware, and a complete split from the pool of monsters in the regular games so that it's a fresh start in all respects, then yeah, 400 would be fine. But that's not what happened.

adjl posted...

Roughly a third of insect species worldwide are endangered, meaning collectors indeed should not be collecting them (off-hand, I don't know what the actual legalities are and I presume they vary from region to region). That's not quite as effective an analogy as you thought it was.

Actually, I think that just furthers my point. Bug collectors don't seem to be so happy about that fact:

https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/bmcseriesblog/2016/05/20/collecting-conservation-endangered-insect-species-smartphones-vs-butterfly-nets/

But the difference is that one restriction is a result of nature, while the other restriction is a result of lazy game developers.

BanjoBoomer posted...

Some people transfer from old games, which they then use to trade with people who don't transfer from old games. It's part of the whole collector ecosystem. The point is that no one is required to purchase or play multiple games in order to complete a pokedex, it was up to you if you wanted to play through multiple games or offer trades to someone else who had. But now those pokemon simply can't be obtained whatsoever in Sw/Sh.

And furthermore, moving a collection from one game to another isn't like moving cards to a new binder, it's more like leaving behind part of your collection in the attic in your old house when you move. How many people actually regularly go back to old pokemon games? It's a yearly generational franchise, usually people move on to the new one and the old one gets left behind. Obvious Pokemon Home is supposed to be Gamefreak's way of resolving that issue, but it's pointless because we can't use our pokemon and we have no guaruntee that a given pokemon will ever be in another game at all.

And 800+ Pokemon isn't ridiculous. If Gamefreak had no choice but to include 2000 pokemon in the game in order to make a profit, then they would take the time necessary to add that many to the game. There are far more ambitious games out there, the only difference is the ambitious games can't sell on brand name alone.

Yeah. But not every Pokmon has to be in every game. They could have, and probably shouldve cut that out earlier, tbh...

It kind of is. With actual cards, youre taking them from one binder and putting them in another. You dont have to recollect it. With Pokmon, youre taking them from one game, and moving it to another. You also dont have to recollect (or re-catch it) again. They are pretty similar. You moving part (or all) of your collection from one place to another... And AFAIK, there was never any guarantee. They just hadnt cut any before. But they were mostly likely going to soon. If not this game, within the next few...

800+ Pokmon is a game is kind of ridiculous. Thats a lot. Imagine if you actually had to catch them in game all over again. That would take forever. Its can easily take a long time for people to catch like the original 150 sometimes. It could take more than 5x as long. And thats if they show up. The regions arent that big. Meaning certain areas would have hundreds of Pokmon youd be grinding just to get a specific one. And the game will continue to sell on brand name alone. Because people will groan and complain, and then still buy the game. Over and over. And when they stop, it wont matter. Because the old fans that sill like it will buy. And the new fans. If the national dex bothers you that much, it may just be time for Pokmon to end for you. This may be the new direction they are going...

Yellow posted...

But people aren't satisfied with 400 pokemon when they want 800, and that's totally possible. Some people have favorite pokemon, that's half their favorite pokemon being cut.

And there's no good reason from a development perspective. Literally just copy and paste the models and data they already have. Polish slightly where needed with ~20 designers and the millions of dollars of profit.

People aren't in the wrong about being unhappy.

Thats fine to be unhappy. Not everyone is going to be happy with a game. But you also cant make everyone happy. Just because youre not happy about something doesnt mean everyone is. Some people are probably happy about things youre not happy about. People like different things. So, when it comes to games, some people like certain things that others dont. And thats fine...
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undefined posted...

eah. But not every Pokmon has to be in every game. They could have, and probably shouldve cut that out earlier, tbh...

That would have just ruined the series even sooner.

undefined posted...

It kind of is. With actual cards, youre taking them from one binder and putting them in another. You dont have to recollect it. With Pokmon, youre taking them from one game, and moving it to another. You also dont have to recollect (or re-catch it) again. They are pretty similar. You moving part (or all) of your collection from one place to another... And AFAIK, there was never any guarantee. They just hadnt cut any before. But they were mostly likely going to soon. If not this game, within the next few...

But you're missing the point. People usually leave old Pokemon games behind when they move over to the new games. That means the old pokemon get left behind if they can't be transferred. So the collection is basically worthless.

The thing about Pokemon is that it's not a real collection--it's digital, but the fact that you can trade and transfer your pokemon makes them feel real, like you are moving around physical creatures. That was always a huge part of the appeal. And now it feels like your physical creatures are trapped in an old game you aren't going to play anymore, or else trapped in Home where they may never escape.

undefined posted...

800+ Pokmon is a game is kind of ridiculous. Thats a lot. Imagine if you actually had to catch them in game all over again. That would take forever. Its can easily take a long time for people to catch like the original 150 sometimes. It could take more than 5x as long. And thats if they show up. The regions arent that big. Meaning certain areas would have hundreds of Pokmon youd be grinding just to get a specific one. And the game will continue to sell on brand name alone. Because people will groan and complain, and then still buy the game. Over and over. And when they stop, it wont matter. Because the old fans that sill like it will buy. And the new fans. If the national dex bothers you that much, it may just be time for Pokmon to end for you. This may be the new direction they are going...

That's why some people would transfer, while others would start collecting them all for the first time. It's like if you started collecting Transformers right now: you could go buy newer ones at the store or from online retailers, but older ones you would need to buy from other collectors who have been collecting much longer than you have. Pokemon was set up to emulate this collector environment. And now Gamefreak's cutting huge ass corners just to see how much they can get away with.

But I do agree that people will keep buying the games. Nothing will change. But I'm not going to stop criticizing Gamefreak just because of that.

BanjoBoomer posted...

That would have just ruined the series even sooner.

Probably not. The only reason this is a big deal now is because its change. And people cant seem to handle that. If the game had made it so people could either never get pokemon from other games, or go back only one generation from the beginning, then it would have been normal. The series would probably be just like it is today except nobody would care about the national dex as it wouldnt be a real thing. There would probably be many fan made games with all of them. But the real games would be different. Except maybe a battle type game like Pokmon stadium and such...

BanjoBoomer posted...

But you're missing the point. People usually leave old Pokemon games behind when they move over to the new games. That means the old pokemon get left behind if they can't be transferred. So the collection is basically worthless.

The thing about Pokemon is that it's not a real collection--it's digital, but the fact that you can trade and transfer your pokemon makes them feel real, like you are moving around physical creatures. That was always a huge part of the appeal. And now it feels like your physical creatures are trapped in an old game you aren't going to play anymore, or else trapped in Home where they may never escape.

If they leave the old games, thats on them. The collection is worth as much as they want it to be worth. If they dont want it to get dusty, then they could play it every once in a while. My brother use to go back to his old games all the time. Hes erase and start over all the time...

And you can always play it. And the Pokmon mean that much to you, play the old games with them. You can always do that.

BanjoBoomer posted...

That's why some people would transfer, while others would start collecting them all for the first time. It's like if you started collecting Transformers right now: you could go buy newer ones at the store or from online retailers, but older ones you would need to buy from other collectors who have been collecting much longer than you have. Pokemon was set up to emulate this collector environment. And now Gamefreak's cutting huge ass corners just to see how much they can get away with.

But I do agree that people will keep buying the games. Nothing will change. But I'm not going to stop criticizing Gamefreak just because of that.

They could be doing that. Or maybe want people to play with the newer ones more. Or maybe they just dont want this to go on to the point where they are putting thousands of Pokmon into every game from here on out.

And you dont have to stop criticizing. Though, it probably wont change much... Mainly because not everyone cares about the national dex. And the developers are gonna do what they want... Especially if they are still going to get money for it...

Also, why did you delete and change my name?
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You can cook all kinds of Curry though.

I really like Japanese curry.
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I havent had much curry...
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LinkPizza posted...

If they leave the old games, thats on them. The collection is worth as much as they want it to be worth. If they dont want it to get dusty, then they could play it every once in a while. My brother use to go back to his old games all the time. Hes erase and start over all the time...

And you can always play it. And the Pokmon mean that much to you, play the old games with them. You can always do that.

Well, personally, this time, I will keep playing the old pokemon games since that's where they will forever be trapped. The series ends for me with Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon.

But that doesn't change the fact that if I did want to start playing Sw/Sh, I wouldn't be able to access a full collection of every pokemon. I want to have a full collection available to me at all times, I want to be able to use anything I want from my collection for battles and trading and contests and whatever other things I can do with them.

And you're still skipping over the fact that all those pokemon would be available to everyone through trading, it's not JUST for people who want to transfer over their old collections.

I really just don't think you are able to relate to the collector mindset at all, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to even comment on it.

LinkPizza posted...

They could be doing that. Or maybe want people to play with the newer ones more. Or maybe they just dont want this to go on to the point where they are putting thousands of Pokmon into every game from here on out.

And you dont have to stop criticizing. Though, it probably wont change much... Mainly because not everyone cares about the national dex. And the developers are gonna do what they want... Especially if they are still going to get money for it...

If they want people to play with the newer ones more, they could just...have the newer ones be the ones you actually encounter in the wild. You know, like in Black and White. That was the best system. Whereas Sw/Sh cuts a ton of old pokemon and yet still has old pokemon all over the place in the main game. The worst of both worlds.

And if the issue is that Gamefreak thinks there will be too many Pokemon in the future...then they should have waited until the future, when there are actually too many pokemon. And at that point they should completely reboot and overhaul the franchise, rather than a half assed incremental upgrade.

LinkPizza posted...

Also, why did you delete and change my name?

It's because Gamefaqs has a stupid editing and quoting set-up. I think it was designed by monkeys or something.

BanjoBoomer posted...

Well, personally, this time, I will keep playing the old pokemon games since that's where they will forever be trapped. The series ends for me with Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon.

But that doesn't change the fact that if I did want to start playing Sw/Sh, I wouldn't be able to access a full collection of every pokemon. I want to have a full collection available to me at all times, I want to be able to use anything I want from my collection for battles and trading and contests and whatever other things I can do with them.

I really just don't think you are able to relate to the collector mindset at all, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to even comment on it.

I collect stuff. But Pokmon isnt one of them. I doubt that all collectors would be able to relate because this isnt like a physical collection. People who collect things physically may think more like me... A digital collection is very different...

As for why I commented on it, thats because I was responding to you. I believe you responded to me first, though...

BanjoBoomer posted...

If they want people to play with the newer ones more, they could just...have the newer ones be the ones you actually encounter in the wild. You know, like in Black and White. That was the best system. Whereas Sw/Sh cuts a ton of old pokemon and yet still has old pokemon all over the place in the main game. The worst of both worlds.

And if the issue is that Gamefreak thinks there will be too many Pokemon in the future...then they should have waited until the future, when there are actually too many pokemon. And at that point they should completely reboot and overhaul the franchise, rather than a half assed incremental upgrade.

Maybe Im reading that wrong or something. You do find the new ones in the wild. What did Black and white do that was different? I didnt play that one much. My brother was into those a lot.

But maybe your version of too many is different from theirs. To me, I personally think 800+ is too many. Maybe they do, as well. Or maybe they wanted to stop early before it got to that point. Because then people would lose even more at the time. And they may not want to reboot the system because reboots dont always sell well. Plus, no matter what, people will be mad. If they reboot, people will be mad. If they cut the dex, people will be mad. No matter what they do, people will be mad. Some people would be mad if they left in all 800+. I know some people who like completing the dex, and wouldnt be able to because they dont have all the previous games. And dont want to waste hundreds of hours trading, let alone, finding someone with what you need...
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Yellow posted...

And there's no good reason from a development perspective.

Except all of the earlier points about game balance and ensuring that the competitive metagame is accessible for people who don't have access to 10+ other games to fill out their roster. That gets much, much easier with a smaller, self-contained pokedex than it is with a full National Dex.

BanjoBoomer posted...

That means the old pokemon get left behind if they can't be transferred. So the collection is basically worthless.

Spoilers: The collection was always worthless. The value of that collection comes purely from the enjoyment of collecting it, which exists regardless of whether or not you can access it with the latest game.
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This is the most negative PR a Nintendo game has received. There are plenty of others that got dumped on a lot more.

adjl posted...

Except all of the earlier points about game balance and ensuring that the competitive metagame is accessible for people who don't have access to 10+ other games to fill out their roster. That gets much, much easier with a smaller, self-contained pokedex than it is with a full National Dex.

It actually ruins meta because it's taking meta pokemon out as well.

Also you can get any pokemon and any iv for relatively nothing in other games by trading online.

This isn't a point adji.
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EvilMegas posted...

adjl posted...

Except all of the earlier points about game balance and ensuring that the competitive metagame is accessible for people who don't have access to 10+ other games to fill out their roster. That gets much, much easier with a smaller, self-contained pokedex than it is with a full National Dex.

It actually ruins meta because it's taking meta pokemon out as well.

Why should last generation's meta continue to exist? A metagame will develop regardless of what's available.
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You're missing the point entirely. The meta will change regardless. Why take out people favorites for no reason?

It won't create this balance you are referring to. Pokemon will never have that
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EvilMegas posted...

You're missing the point entirely. The meta will change regardless. Why take out people favorites for no reason?

The same reason people's favourite levels from SMB aren't in SMB2: Because it's a different game. You want to see your favourites from an older game, you can play that game or enjoy the occasional nostalgia-plucking cameo in a new one (like including Whomp's Fortress in SMG2, which was a beautifully executed piece of nostalgia). The only reason anyone expects all of their favourites to be accessible in every new Pokemon game is because that's how they've done it so far, which has always been a mistake because that approach simply isn't sustainable if they want to design a half-decent battling system around it.

EvilMegas posted...

It won't create this balance you are referring to. Pokemon will never have that

A separate issue, but one which is made considerably easier to solve by pruning the Dex down to more manageable levels. Will they ever solve it? Probably not, because there's more money to be made in churning out a few new critters for people to catch each year than putting serious effort into balancing a very complex PvP battle system. But simplifying that system by having a few hundred less Pokemon to worry about is a good design choice, whether they capitalize on that simplification or not.
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adjl posted...

The only reason anyone expects all of their favourites to be accessible in every new Pokemon game is because that's how they've done it so far

"The only reason why they expect it is because that's how the games were made!"

What do you think about a pokemon game is so enticing to adults? The challengeless gameplay? The ridiculous and uninteresting plots? The shitty gimmicks that disappear every generation?

Getting your pokemon that you like and socialising with your friends on your unique pokemon preferences is its appeal. It's a social game, and if you remove the part that makes the pokemon transcend the individual game's ecosystem, you remove any reason to feel invested in your pokemon. They're stuck in whatever fucked edition you found it on where it will disappear from memory when that edition isn't relevant any more socially.

You can get another but its stats are different, its nature is different, its training is different, it is functionally different. Even some moves can only be gained by the pokemon learning it in another generation. The individual pokemon are unique and now a big block of them have been made completely redundant.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

adjl posted...

The only reason anyone expects all of their favourites to be accessible in every new Pokemon game is because that's how they've done it so far

"The only reason why they expect it is because that's how the games were made!"

What do you think about a pokemon game is so enticing to adults? The challengeless gameplay? The ridiculous and uninteresting plots? The shitty gimmicks that disappear every generation?

Getting your pokemon that you like and socialising with your friends on your unique pokemon preferences is its appeal. It's a social game, and if you remove the part that makes the pokemon transcend the individual game's ecosystem, you remove any reason to feel invested in your pokemon. They're stuck in whatever fucked edition you found it on where it will disappear from memory when that edition isn't relevant any more socially.

You can get another but its stats are different, its nature is different, its training is different, it is functionally different. Even some moves can only be gained by the pokemon learning it in another generation. The individual pokemon are unique and now a big block of them have been made completely redundant.

I have friends who get the game because they like to battle each other. But if they're going to use the same exact pokemon from before, then we can still battle on the old system. Why get a new game to battle each other if they want to use to the same team. If they get the new game, then you're stuck battling with whichever pokemon are in the game. But if you don't like those, then keep playing the older game.

But adjl is correct. Had they not always put all pokemon in the previous games, no one would expect them to. The only reason people expect them to now is because they have until this point...
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Ok Gamefreak defenders in this topic, what did we get in return for the cut content? Graphics was the reason cited, but the game looks like shit and the models are just copied over from the past games anyway. Dynamaxing is the most boring generational gimmick yet. The game is easy and short. There's really nothing here to defend. There's nothing here that makes it worth an extra $20, because it could have easily been a 3DS game.

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GanonsSpirit posted...

Ok Gamefreak defenders in this topic, what did we get in return for the cut content? Graphics was the reason cited, but the game looks like shit and the models are just copied over from the past games anyway. Dynamaxing is the most boring generational gimmick yet. The game is easy and short. There's really nothing here to defend. There's nothing here that makes it worth an extra $20, because it could have easily been a 3DS game.

We dont need to get anything in return. That being said, the extra $20 is because its a Switch game. Like I said earlier. And like Helly said, every other console Pokmon game has been $60, as well...
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The failed to answer the question in that post.

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i want my fuckin blastoise back dammit
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