Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 389: AR-15 Minutes of Fame

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrik7 posted...

Yes and no. Disney would benefit financially but they would accrue red tape and need permits which would screw up a lot of their projects. Either way, they will retain their special status. It's not going away. Just a PR stunt.

Red tape doesn't stop Disney.

red13n posted...

Red tape doesn't stop Disney.

It can if you get fined for not having permits. Right now, they issue their own permits. If you have to go through the government, you have a ton of time and money lost.

Corrik7 posted...

It can if you get fined for not having permits. Right now, they issue their own permits. If you have to go through the government, you have a ton of time and money lost.

Disney cuts through local governments like a knife through butter most of the time. And dissolving their special status is going to give them more power over the local government.

red13n posted...

Disney cuts through local governments like a knife through butter most of the time. And dissolving their special status is going to give them more power over the local government.

Not when it is bankrupting the community around them and is taxpayer money. It's why their special status will remain.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/17/briefing/right-wing-mass-shootings.html

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/murder-and-extremism-united-states-2021#exploring-the-numbers

The Anti-Defamation League studied 450 murders committed by political extremists over the last decade (2012-2021, so this year's mass shootings not included).

Right-wing extremism consisted of 75% (73% of which, or 55% overall, was motivated by White Supremacy)
Domestic Islamist Extremism was next at 20%
Left-wing extremism (including black nationalists and anarchists) at 4%

Corrik7 posted...

Not when it is bankrupting the community around them and is taxpayer money. It's why their special status will remain.

Uhhhh...You might want to look at Anaheim. The local community becomes forced to beg for scraps.

But yes their special status will probably remain.

StealThisSheen posted...

Yeah, I'm not sure of the logic behind the Rays thing. Disney can't move, but a baseball team sure can.

With no state income tax the Rays are just a leech on Florida.

xp1337 posted...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/17/briefing/right-wing-mass-shootings.html

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/murder-and-extremism-united-states-2021#exploring-the-numbers

The Anti-Defamation League studied 450 murders committed by political extremists over the last decade (2012-2021, so this year's mass shootings not included).

Right-wing extremism consisted of 75% (73% of which, or 55% overall, was motivated by White Supremacy)
Domestic Islamist Extremism was next at 20%
Left-wing extremism (including black nationalists and anarchists) at 4%

See that likely lists someone like Eliot Rodgers as on the right, despite he was a follower of the Young Turks which is left extremism.

Thanks for the source. Which leads to my point after. This leaves out gun violence that is not mass shooting and that would typically lean left if demographics hold strong.

His point was leftists tend to not commit gun violence as much as others even if they have guns. Questionable and I would love to see a source on that.

Are we discussing violence here or just mass shootings? Do you want to root out just mass shootings but all gun violence under 3 dead in a single event is okay?

red13n posted...

Pretty far right overall in the world, yeah.

red13n posted...

To be a bit more clear, that take on guns is just advocating for more mass shootings overall.

Which again, just say you want to live out your MAGA goon fantasy, it is whatever.

Youre trolling your ass off. This is literally a bizzaro world take.

My position is literally in line with every other nation on earth that allows guns and has zero mass shootings.

Oh also for fun, the list of countries that completely ban civilian guns, according to first result on Google:

Brunei
Cambodia
Comoros
Eritrea
Fiji
Guinea-Bisseau
Maldives
Marshall Islands
Myanmar (except for Chin people)
Nauru
North Korea
Palau
Seychelles
Solomon Islands
Somalia
Timor-Leste
Vatican City

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-where-guns-are-illegal

Which of those is left wing? Because you seem to be implying anything but a complete ban is right wing.

Corrik7 posted...

See that likely lists someone like Eliot Rodgers as on the right, despite he was a follower of the Young Turks which is left extremism.

Thanks for the source. Which leads to my point after. This leaves out gun violence that is not mass shooting and that would typically lean left if demographics hold strong.

His point was leftists tend to not commit gun violence as much as others even if they have guns. Questionable and I would love to see a source on that.

Are we discussing violence here or just mass shootings? Do you want to root out just mass shootings but all gun violence under 3 dead in a single event is okay?

Two things, here. One, the shootings are regarding "political terrorism". I do think it's a bit simplistic to class all mass shootings as political alone, but the Rodgers shootings were, in his own terms, because the dude didn't like that women were having sex with people that weren't him. I think it's a stretch to call that left-wing extremism based on him following a specific left-wing group.

Second, this is also explicitly around mass shootings. The US is a massive country and shootings are incredibly common, so the study chose to focus on mass shootings. You are going to struggle to find anything which explicitly looks at every gun-related homicide in the country and categorises the motivation of each of them.

You are putting words in my mouth now because I've never talked specifics on guns here. Merely that your position is "more guns".

Corrik7 posted...

See that likely lists someone like Eliot Rodgers as on the right, despite he was a follower of the Young Turks which is left extremism.

You do realize that he's an alt-right figure, who many on the alt-right celebrate, right? Like... it's pretty documented that his beliefs were extreme right in nature, and that he was very interested in Nazis (which is a far-right ideology). Most of his espoused beliefs are echoed by the alt-right too. Particularly hate for interracial couples.

but he followed the young turks!

Yeah, he followed them on youtube? And? That doesn't mean he agreed with them. Nothing suggests that he agreed with them. Just that he was subscribed to them. You can subscribe to youtube channels you don't agree with. It doesn't even mean you're a fan. There is such a thing as hate-following.

Dancedreamer posted...

You do realize that he's an alt-right figure, who many on the alt-right celebrate, right? Like... it's pretty documented that his beliefs were extreme right in nature, and that he was very interested in Nazis (which is a far-right ideology). Most of his espoused beliefs are echoed by the alt-right too. Particularly hate for interracial couples.

but he followed the young turks!

Yeah, he followed them on youtube? And? That doesn't mean he agreed with them. Nothing suggests that he agreed with them. Just that he was subscribed to them. You can subscribe to youtube channels you don't agree with. It doesn't even mean you're a fan. There is such a thing as hate-following.

He followed the left, but because he was also an incel and falls into "manosphere" people lop him in with the right. The fact the alt-right rallied around his actions and manifesto is irrelevant.

Corrik7 posted...

See that likely lists someone like Eliot Rodgers as on the right, despite he was a follower of the Young Turks which is left extremism.

i read elliot rodger's entire manifesto and he was racist as fuck lol

also, TYT isn't left extremism

I don't think its unfair to say that if the country shifted far right we'd see an uptick in extremism on the left.

Again, I think its just part of how we view society. Actually impacting the government directly feels unreachable to most folks. The only way it happens is if the government wants it to happen.

Corrik7 posted...

He followed the left, but because he was also an incel and falls into "manosphere" people lop him in with the right. The fact the alt-right rallied around his actions and manifesto is irrelevant.

...the alt-right rallied around his manifesto because it aligned with their beliefs. He was literally against interracial marriage and wanted women to be enslaved. I think throwing around left-right like it means anything here is reductive when it's mostly social "issues" rather than economic issues that motivated him, but arguing that he's left wing is bizarre to me regardless.

Sheep007 posted...

...the alt-right rallied around his manifesto because it aligned with their beliefs. He was literally against interracial marriage and wanted women to be enslaved. I think throwing around left-right like it means anything here is reductive when it's mostly social "issues" rather than economic issues that motivated him, but arguing that he's left wing is bizarre to me regardless.

It might seem weird to you, but shitty people can be on any part of the spectrum. Bigots and pieces of shit don't just hang out in one area of the spectrum. If you are going to contribute every person who is hateful as being on the right, then yeah sure, you have created your skew yourself.

It's like that liberal who threw bacon at Islamic churches and everyone was like this makes her on the right, when she was clearly a liberal. Sometimes liberals don't align 100% to all your beliefs and can be just shitty people. Being a racist isn't a right ideology or a left one. It's a piece of shit ideology.

Stepping in here to point out a few things:

The ADL study looks at what it identifies as extremist-related killings and not just mass shootings. The NYT URL might introduce some confusion by having the words "mass shooting" because it goes on to talk about how politicians on the right are increasingly using violent rhetoric with little pushback by leadership. Indeed, the ADL link specifically notes that 15 of the 19 lethal incidents in 2021 only had a single victim.

They also explain how they try to err conservatively on classifying incidents as extremist-related. For instance, it dedicates two paragraphs to explaining why it did not list Sicknick's murder as... well, a murder, for the purposes of this report thanks to the fact that since his cause of death was given as a stroke they can't definitively prove it was a murder by a 1/6 insurrectionist.

For further evidence of how cautious they are in classifying. If you go back to the 2020 report their initial classification of Ahmaud Arbery's murder was that due to lack of information at the time they could not classify it, but note that that designation could change as information comes out. They also do not classify Rittenhouse's killings in the same year.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i read elliot rodger's entire manifesto and he was racist as fuck lol

also, TYT isn't left extremism

It's bias spectrum is considered extremely left. It's the same placement just opposing as say Western Journal is on the right.

xp1337 posted...

Stepping in here to point out a few things:

The ADL study looks at what it identifies as extremist-related killings and not just mass shootings. The NYT URL might introduce some confusion by having the words "mass shooting" because it goes on to talk about how politicians on the right are increasingly using violent rhetoric with little pushback by leadership. Indeed, the ADL link specifically notes that 15 of the 19 lethal incidents in 2021 only had a single victim.

They also explain how they try to err conservatively on classifying incidents as extremist-related. For instance, it dedicates two paragraphs to explaining why it did not list Sicknick's murder as... well, a murder, for the purposes of this report thanks to the fact that since his cause of death was given as a stroke they can't definitively prove it was a murder by a 1/6 insurrectionist.

For further evidence of how cautious they are in classifying. If you go back to the 2020 report their initial classification of Ahmaud Arbery's murder was that due to lack of information at the time they could not classify it, but note that that designation could change as information comes out. They also do not classify Rittenhouse's killings in the same year.

Chris' point was that they just don't commit the act as often.

The source there is looking for extremism as motive. (Commiting gun violence in the name of politics)

You could argue that source isn't even relevant to Chris' point.

Chris argument as I understand it was.

Say 33% (130 million) of America is independent. 31% (120 million) Republican. 36% (140 million) Democrat.

60% of (72 million) Republicans own guns. 35% of (49 million) democrats own guns.

That the ratio of people who commit gun violence is proportionately higher in the republican pool than the Democrat pool.

That is his argument if I understand it. I tossed random numbers in here so don't take them as legit.

https://costplusdrugs.com/

Has anyone seen this site from Mark Cuban? (Supposedly)

I think Amazon has been doing this also.

https://www.drugtopics.com/view/the-good-the-bad-and-the-missed-opportunity-of-mark-cuban-cost-plus-drug-company

Article on it

Corrik7 posted...

It might seem weird to you, but shitty people can be on any part of the spectrum. Bigots and pieces of shit don't just hang out in one area of the spectrum. If you are going to contribute every person who is hateful as being on the right, then yeah sure, you have created your skew yourself.

It's like that liberal who threw bacon at Islamic churches and everyone was like this makes her on the right, when she was clearly a liberal. Sometimes liberals don't align 100% to all your beliefs and can be just shitty people. Being a racist isn't a right ideology or a left one. It's a piece of shit ideology.

I'm very aware that liberals can be shitty people and I'm not a liberal myself, although I will say that in my delightful experiences liberals are far less likely to be overt pieces of shit! They're normally more into condescension and dismissive ignorance than outward hate.

I think some of my point was lost in communication: calling him left-wing or right-wing from the shootings is based on a nebulous definition that's different for everyone, and I think it's a bit puzzling to say he's left-wing based on the evidence we have. While I would call him Alt-right, it's perhaps another fuzzy term. I'd be interested to know what your definition is, though, if it doesn't involve his brand of white supremacy, inceldom and misogyny, and 4chan culture war mentality. I also think regardless of my opinions on liberals, anyone who wants to ban interracial sex and enslave women doesn't quite fit under the modern definition, since we now broadly consider people who aren't white dudes to be human and have the associated rights.

Oh, BTW, SCOTUS out here with more atrocious rulings.

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1534547503386968064

A US Citizen who owns and runs an Inn in Washington State and was a CI for Border Patrol had a Border Patrol agent show up and demanded to speak to a guest. When he was asked to leave the property he (the inn owner) was shoved to the ground. When he complained to the officer's superiors the officer allegedly contacted the IRS and other agencies and a tax audit and other investigations into the inn owner occurred.

So the owner sued the officer under Bivens, a 1971 decision that allows you to, in certain circumstances, claim money damages against a federal officer for constitutional violations. Here he sued claiming 1st and 4th Amendment violations.

6-3 decision by Thomas saying nope. He can't sue. Forget qualified immunity, we've got absolute immunity over here.

Technically they unanimously found there was no First Amendment claim under Bivens but the dissent of the 3 liberals was over the Fourth Amendment claim. Sotomayor, who authored the dissent, also pretty much calls out that it was Trump's stacking of the court that led to the court making a U-turn on this case:

Justice Sotomayor dissents...

Just five years after circumscribing the standard for allowing Bivens claims to proceed, a restless and newly constituted Court sees fit to refashion the standard anew to foreclose remedies in yet more cases.

I mean that's a "no shit" thing for us but I don't recall such a blatant callout in an official dissent before.

Sorry for the double post (and topic change) but this story was so revolting I couldn't not share it.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/08/transgender-texas-child-abuse-lawsuit

A trans teen attempted suicide the day that Abbott issued the directive about making gender-affirming care child abuse. The teen cited the political enviornment, including Abbott's letter, and general transphobia as what led him to take those actions.

He survived and was admitted to a psychiatric facility where the staff learned he was undergoing hormone therapy. A week after he was discharged an investigator from the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services came to the family's home and said the psychiatric facility had reported them for child abuse.

Fucking monsters.

Oh, but it's "just red meat for the base" right?

Corrik7 posted...

The worst part is Disney tried to fall in line on the subject. Then all their workers were going to have a huge walkout, so they did the bare minimum to keep them satisfied to not do that. And then DeSantis went silly.

DeSantis is a goofball.

I don't been know what to do next election, because there really isn't a chance in hell I can vote for Biden again... but Trump and DeSantis are likely one or the other gonna be the republican nominee.

I might have to hold my nose and vote R next election I don't even know at this point.

You dont HAVE to vote if all the options are equally terrible to you.

Jakyl25 posted...

You dont HAVE to vote if all the options are equally terrible to you.

Yes I do. It's my civic duty.

> thinks it's your civic duty to vote
> is cool voting for fascists who would rather deprive you of that right and overturn elections they lose

pick one

StartTheMachine posted...

> thinks it's your civic duty to vote
> is cool voting for fascists who would rather deprive you of that right and overturn elections they lose

pick one

Conservativism in a nutshell. It's why this country is falling apart. They'll fall in line to vote for the worst candidates, and they'll nominate the worst candidates because their 'moderate' voters are cool with it and their extremists won't vote for anyone else.

StartTheMachine posted...

> thinks it's your civic duty to vote
> is cool voting for fascists who would rather deprive you of that right and overturn elections they lose

pick one

Propaganda

Corrik7 posted...

Propaganda

what

Weren't you literally the one who made the "America is under attack" topic on January 6th? Now you're saying that's...liberal propaganda?

StartTheMachine posted...

what

Weren't you literally the one who made the "America is under attack" topic on January 6th? Now you're saying that's...liberal propaganda?

I am saying your fascist nonsense is propaganda.

if you feel like you have to vote, just vote for a third party. way better than voting for either biden or a republican.

Corrik7 posted...

I am saying your fascist nonsense is propaganda.

okay

if the f word makes you uncomfortable, despite a majority of historians agreeing now that it suits Trump, feel free to use whatever anti-democratic, pro-insurrection synonym of your choice

Mr Lasastryke posted...

if you feel like you have to vote, just vote for a third party. way better than voting for either biden or a republican.

ideologically pure but strategically foolish

Mr Lasastryke posted...

if you feel like you have to vote, just vote for a third party. way better than voting for either biden or a republican.

This is the "I make poor judgments about how to use my time" reasoning. Just stay home in that case.

What party leadership did to protect Henry Cuellar in his primary given his stances is infuriating.

But yeah sure their party leadership isn't literal comic book villains. whoo.

Corrik7 posted...

Yes I do. It's my civic duty.

claiming to be at all centrist in that other post. What a joke.

Corrik7 posted...

Yes I do. It's my civic duty.

Do you literally vote every single time you possibly can?

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1534909065696100354?t=shacOPAF-faQIBIQ7QBywg&s=19

Id bet money he wins the election now, lol.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Id bet money he wins the election now, lol.

I had the same thought.

My question for corrik would be:
Given that the Republicans refuse to work with democrats in any capacity, and they all voted against gas price controls and have worked to exacerbate the baby formula shortage, what makes you think they'll work to make your life any better?

Mr Lasastryke posted...

if you feel like you have to vote, just vote for a third party. way better than voting for either biden or a republican.

Depends on the candidate but unlikely.

Peace___Frog posted...

My question for corrik would be:
Given that the Republicans refuse to work with democrats in any capacity, and they all voted against gas price controls and have worked to exacerbate the baby formula shortage, what makes you think they'll work to make your life any better?

Neither party works to help anyone but the rich tbqh.

How can you put a gas price control in? That wouldn't work. Your only angle reprieve comes from getting Saudi Arabia to pump more but they hate Biden.

Corrik7 posted...

How can you put a gas price control in? That wouldn't work.

Cap on profit margins for gas.

For years gas stations have raised rates to match crude prices going up but not lowered them to match when prices go down increasing their margin with every cycle.

Maniac64 posted...

Cap on profit margins for gas.

Do you want Hollywood accounting? This is how you get Hollywood accounting.

If you want to tax rich people, tax rich people. Anything else and rich people will use clever accounting tricks and it will just create complicated tax codes that hurt small businesses

I don't know enough about Hollywood accounting to answer that. But this is profit margin for a product not for the whole business, which I think is the Hollywood issue.

Theres pretty much a universal agreement among economists that price controls are terrible policy that lead to shortages.

For baby formula we should just allow for normal imports from any other country with comparable safety standards.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Theres pretty much a universal agreement among economists that price controls are terrible policy that lead to shortages.

For baby formula we should just allow for normal imports from any other country with comparable safety standards.

And prevent monopolies and regulatory capture.

If there is only a couple of companies producing formula, maybe you should look into why that is