Board 8 > Blade Mafia 5 Topic 3: Oh no, Yamcha's been Yamcha'd!

(+) Yeah! (+)

I have just caught up on everything. Dumey is almost certainly scum, it's by far the simplest answer. I did think he was being a bit weird eod1. Corrik was onto him too. Didn't really track votes though so holding mine for now.

Chang and FD initially seem much more likely town based on Sultan's flip but them being able to confirm communication with each other make them pretty terrible counters to Sultan. They would always just state it, scum can't reasonably make the same gambit. Chang at least is still town unless he's pulling a gambit like I did.

I thought thanksgiving was in november.

Leafeon13N posted...

Also motion detector has no reason to target scum neighbor.

They are already confirmed role as neighbor. They dont have much chance of also moving at night.

changmas posted...

also why would you not scan the claimed vanilla (BCT) if you made the connection to it being like a vanilla cop

I thought BCT didn't actually claim Vanilla, and just corrected it to say he was claiming town. So that wasn't actually a clear direction. The Neighbor trio were the only ones actually hard claimed in my eyes, and yes, while I know that the scum neighbor might be incentivized to not move at night in case of watcher/tracker, my role doesn't work that way. It tells me if they CAN move. So the assumption here is that if scum Corrik COULD send in night kills as a normal member of mafia, then he would come up as able to move. You are not understanding my claim.

PeaceFrog posted...

When I saw Sultan's flip it occurred to me that his results would make it sound like all of the neighbors would be millers. And if there's any funny business like of Ulti's game where a town player could otherwise communicate outside of the topic, like how foolmo did, they'd also scan guilty to Sultan. Quite clever from our dear host.

I did find this very humorous with Corrik's flip. He wasn't a miller, but technically because of Sultan's role, he actually was!

PeaceFrog posted...

So here's what gets me with Dumey being scum. At day end of was basically between Wallz, fd, and sultan. Dumey really did not want to vote wallz. Fd voting for Sultan makes sense out of self preservation. By the time Wallz voted, he was already out of contention because i unvoted him and put Sultan at 4. Dumey put Sultan at 3 but things were still up in the air. Like Plum said at the time, we were just letting scum pick the target.

But if all 3 were town, why would Dumey care to have a Sultan preference? All 3 are good players in their own right, but Dumey as scum could just sit back and not worry about it. So my argument is, Dumey picked Sultan and avoided Wallz for a reason. And it's because Wallz is his buddy.

I know you can't really extend charitability to me in this case, but I think if you read over my end of day, I really wasn't trying to "lead" anyone to a preference of mine. I was vocal about wanting Corrik lynched, and asked FD where he wanted to go, asked you to make a case on Wallz, and really just stated that I DIDN'T want to lynch FD because I really didn't like the arguments Plum and crew made to justify their votes. Including BCT who also admitted to voting FD before even catching up.

ViolentAbacus posted...

Dumey, can you explain why you targeted a neighbor?

I wonder if Lea or Corrik mentioned/suspected someone who was a mafia member

To comment on some outstanding thoughts:

Wallz, my first post was written expecting to not have things come up. You being so hung up on that first post to my second is a bit odd.

Dumey my vote stayed on you the previous day because on the page that I was on people were talking about you being suspicious.

About my full write up - I am not a cop. I can throw someone in jail and they are protected, but also role blocked.

Answered your first question in my first quote block.
Also your justification about staying on me because people were talking about me being suspicious is even worse than just saying you forgot, lmao. Does an uninformed town that doesn't have the time to be fully caught up think, "Man my joke vote based on no real information seems to be on an actual relevant lynch option, let me just leave it there for scum to potentially abuse?" My first thought as town there would be to remove the vote so I don't accidentally influence the lynch!

htaeD posted...

Hahaha

No way EDumey uses that kind of scan on Corrik instead of the actual claimed vanilla
Since, yaknow, Neighbors sometimes get extra powers

Again, I think you didn't understand my claim. But also, as the person with the MOST neighbor experience here in this community probably, I never had extra powers as neighbor. But also Corrik had already stuck to a Miller Neighbor claim, which seemed unlikely to have even MORE tacked onto it as well!

PeaceFrog posted...

Not to bury him further, but I think Town dumey is smart enough to know that some town have passive abilities and not every non- vanilla is a moving non- vanilla. His last sentence here only makes sense if that is his scum ability

Vanilla Scanner is just a general usage term that I used to paraphrase. zzzzz. The typical USAGE of my role would be to test people's claims, ergo a Vanilla Scanner. But a Neighbor that is in a pre-established neighbor community and doesn't change their neighbor nightly and had already claimed Miller in addition to this, seemed like a safe place to catch a lie if he could ALSO move. I agree that if I HAD found he could move, it wouldn't be an instant scum scan, but it at least could have provided extra context for the other two neighbors to evaluate Corrik. If both the other neighbors couldn't move, but Corrik could, what would that mean?

PeaceFrog posted...

Sultan was low effort because of champs. I agree that that's likely. Fd and wallz were both very present and had a big d1 presence. So as scum, why did Dumey prefer a Sultan lynch?
I propose:
Wallz is scum, and dumey did not want to bus his mate that hard on day 1 if there was a perfectly good train going on an unclaimed town.
He knew i was adamantly against fd in a way that i was not against Sultan and there weren't many other people around, besides the people on the chopping block. So if he went after fd, i would likely stay on wallz. In that scenario, it's likely that fd votes wallz and wallz votes fd, bringing us to a d1 tiebreaker with scum on the line. Not a fun time for them.
Therefore, voting Sultan was the only avenue for Dumey to secure wallz' safety.

This is actually so dumb. I WANTED YOU TO PUT IN LITERALLY ANY EFFORT INTO CONVINCING ME ON WALLZ. YOU DIDN'T DO THAT. The fact that you can frame YOUR laziness and incompetence to move me onto Wallz lynch as somehow me not wanting to vote Wallz is INSANE. You were LITERALLY involved in this exchange, but are putting ALL of the responsibility on me and not yourself, when you were voting for Wallz and did NOTHING to push for his lynch at crunch time when the people in the topic were ACTIVELY looking for consolidate the lynch. Where was your motivation to lynch someone you thought was scum there?

You guys are way too confident on considering me confirmed scum in a Blade game that said meta at your own risk, and just assuming that there's no world in which scum ninja kills Corrik, a common watch target N1.

Like I get it, you want to just follow the scan and take the chance, but acting like it's confirmed is just foolhardy.

MZero posted...

I haven't read sorry

Dumey's role sounds fake cause all scum can move by virtue of factional kill. Thus, scum would not be able to claim vanilla

Leave it to inactive MZero to be the only one that seemed to actually read my claim, but still make a strange conclusion based off of it. Yes, scum would be caught if they claimed Vanilla and I had coincidentally checked them already. That seems like a fair trade for a technically weak scan. My role is going to have a lot of false-positives naturally, so it ONLY provides value in countering existing claims.

Also, I know I've brought up the sign-up topic expectations many times, but it feels like I'm the ONLY one taking them into consideration at all. Blade specifically asked for people to not mass claim early as it ruins the fun of games and goes against the spirit of his setup. My role seems to directly corroborate that. Where it becomes incredibly anti-fun for scum in a mass claim scenario, but much more useful in a game with crazy custom roles and no mass claim.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I thought thanksgiving was in november.

For the US. Canada is earlier.

EDumey posted...

This is actually so dumb. I WANTED YOU TO PUT IN LITERALLY ANY EFFORT INTO CONVINCING ME ON WALLZ. YOU DIDN'T DO THAT. The fact that you can frame YOUR laziness and incompetence to move me onto Wallz lynch as somehow me not wanting to vote Wallz is INSANE. You were LITERALLY involved in this exchange, but are putting ALL of the responsibility on me and not yourself, when you were voting for Wallz and did NOTHING to push for his lynch at crunch time when the people in the topic were ACTIVELY looking for consolidate the lynch. Where was your motivation to lynch someone you thought was scum there?

I'll grant you all of that, to which I respond with my post reply to changmas from earlier. Totally fair from your pov if you are town though.

And you know, we really should grant Dumey some benefit of the doubt and engage with him here. Let's not forget when lopen was insane psychic or whatever and town spent all day laughing at him and taunting him, only for him to flip town at the lynch.

That being said, I still don't believe the claim. But I'll at least humor being wrong here.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I thought thanksgiving was in november.

Canadians are dumb.

EDumey posted...

I thought BCT didn't actually claim Vanilla, and just corrected it to say he was claiming town.

He cleared this up at some point yesterday.

Oh so probably not too relevant that it's Thanksgiving then, not that many Canadians I think?

PeaceFrog posted...

Listen. We agree that dumey is scum, yeah? From my pov, not knowing for sure that you are town, Dumey's actions at end of day make a lot more sense if you are scum. You haven't given me much of anything to see that whole chain of events in a different light.

I'll stop spam posting until other people respond after this, but I want you to please at least TRY to take a look and ask if my actions ALSO make sense from Town. Just assume I'm town and look at my end of day.

Town has no clear direction. I specifically call out how splintered the votes are, and how much I dislike the leading train on FD. No one is moving to my preferred lynch of Corrik. What do I do in that scenario? I try to ask the people in topic where we can go. It seems like the options at that time are Wallz, me, Abacus, FD, and Sultan. I certainly don't want it to be me. I'm hesitant to lynch Abacus because of claimed power. I stated I didn't want FD. Until Lea pushed Sultan back into the possibility, it seemed like it was going to be between Abacus and Wallz for me personally, and I was asking FD which way to go. Active unclaimed player or inactive power? Lea put Sultan back into contention, and we (AS A GROUP NOT JUST ME INDIVIDUALLY) all started finding reasons why we didn't quite trust Sultan and were okay with his lynch. YOU INCLUDED GAVE YOUR FULL SUPPORT OF CONSOLIDATING ON SULTAN. I asked you to provide an argument on Wallz so we could actually consider it. Wallz gave lip service to specialing MZero, but didn't actually vote for him, so there was zero percent chance of that train actually starting. Both Wallz and FD were holding onto their votes for last minute swings.

As town in this scenario, the only way I can help ensure that town doesn't let scum have complete control of the lynch, is to try and get people actively talking to AGREE to a lynch, so that we don't have a random flurry of votes at the end that people can claim plausible deniability on. You are putting SO MUCH intent in me apparently wanting to save Wallz, when NO ONE IN THE TOPIC gave ANY argument for why we should stay on Wallz and not switch to Sultan. NO ONE. You are putting some responsibility on me to investigate and convince people to switch to him one hour from deadline when I never knew the arguments against him in the first place.

This was the perspective I was working under at deadline. You HAVE to be able to step back and see that, and don't JUST ascribe scum intent because it works for your head canon.

PeaceFrog posted...

For the US. Canada is earlier.

I'll grant you all of that, to which I respond with my post reply to changmas from earlier. Totally fair from your pov if you are town though.

And you know, we really should grant Dumey some benefit of the doubt and engage with him here. Let's not forget when lopen was insane psychic or whatever and town spent all day laughing at him and taunting him, only for him to flip town at the lynch.

That being said, I still don't believe the claim. But I'll at least humor being wrong here.

Sorry I didn't refresh before my last post to see this. I'll turn the temperature down a little.

PeaceFrog posted...

That being said, I still don't believe the claim. But I'll at least humor being wrong here.

Would you elaborate on this just a little? Do you think it's not balanced for what we know of the game so far? Do you think it's too convenient a claim for the situation we're in? Something else? Just a vibe :) ?

ctesjbuvf posted...

He cleared this up at some point yesterday.

I clearly didn't see it. But also, I'd like your opinion on this. Knowing that my role detects if someone CAN move, not if they DID move, do you agree with other people that me scanning claimed Miller Neighbor Corrik who apparently started in a miller neighborhood instead of choosing a neighbor at the end of D1, makes no sense? I feel like it makes perfect sense from my perspective, and I'm not sure why people are so quick to dismiss that knowing whether Corrik could move or not would be valuable info.

Maybe what you are saying is true, but it would be awfully inconvenient (and ill-informed) for you to have missed the posts where BCT clarified that he was vanilla.
The claim itself is not even the problem, you targeting someone who died is.
Even that has explanations (of which I am well aware due to experiences), but you should understand the signs against you.

I also am pretty sure we have had moving neighbors quite recently.
Plus what was to stop Corrik from just claiming to have a power as a scum neighbor anyway?

htaeD posted...

Maybe what you are saying is true, but it would be awfully inconvenient (and ill-informed) for you to have missed the posts where BCT clarified that he was vanilla.
The claim itself is not even the problem, you targeting someone who died is.
Even that has explanations (of which I am well aware due to experiences), but you should understand the signs against you.

I will say, even if I did 100% know that BCT was claimed Vanilla with no confusion (which I wasn't), there's still a very strong chance that I would have scanned Corrik still anyway. He was my number 1 suspect and I think his claim with my role was directly testable. I mean think of what would have happened if I came into today with Corrik alive and knowing that he COULDN'T move. I would have to publicly 180 and soft claim power to explain why I wasn't going after Corrik anymore, because he would have been confirmed town in my eyes. Is that not super valuable?

I do understand, and don't hold it against people wanting to lynch the person tracked to the body. I really do. I just want people to examine other things and give me a chance if possible, because an inactive town that is willing to just follow the scan, fall behind after lynching a scanner, and having less content to fall back on afterwards, is a recipe for success. I will say that scum is MORE than happy to just let me die easily. So people taking the back seat like Plum who are admittedly happy to "make sure things don't go off track" should be looked at with extreme prejudice.

So in that respect, I do really have to give Peaf town points for trying to push conversation and do a lot of analysis today. He is certainly not one sitting back on his ass happy to let things go, even if I do think he's a little too biased against me some times. :(

ctesjbuvf posted...

I thought thanksgiving was in november.

For plebs maybe

I'd have more to talk myself if Sbell hadnt been such a void of interaction.

Though of course Abacus is still one of the topics of the day and he should tell us what he did last night.

EDumey posted...

I clearly didn't see it. But also, I'd like your opinion on this. Knowing that my role detects if someone CAN move, not if they DID move, do you agree with other people that me scanning claimed Miller Neighbor Corrik who apparently started in a miller neighborhood instead of choosing a neighbor at the end of D1, makes no sense? I feel like it makes perfect sense from my perspective, and I'm not sure why people are so quick to dismiss that knowing whether Corrik could move or not would be valuable info.

I don't think going to Corrik is weird in itself no. Going for an unprovoked claimed vanilla day 1 isn't that great a move imo, might as well catch lying town. It's seemingly being the only one to visit a dead person that is the problem.

I'm considering what to make of Dumey apparently being unaware of BCTs claim.

EDumey posted...

Canadians are dumb.

Wrong, we just know better to space out turkey days.

htaeD posted...

I also am pretty sure we have had moving neighbors quite recently.
Plus what was to stop Corrik from just claiming to have a power as a scum neighbor anyway?

I was always a moving neighbor. It's the idea that they already existed in a neighborhood from N0 that is the difference. Do you not recognize that is a CRUCIAL difference to how neighbor has been utilized in the past?

You're only thinking of the possibility of getting a confirmation that he can move. The possibility of confirming he doesn't move was also there. Have to factor that in.

And if he was able to move, and the other two neighbors weren't, would that not help them evaluate that the Corrik CONVINCED that one of the other two is scum, of his alignment?

No matter what way you spin it, there was value in choosing Corrik there! I paraphrased my role as a Vanilla Scanner, but that's not the only utility you can get out of it!

But also, I'd be interested in hearing people's opinions on whether or not they agree with confirmed town flipped Corrik that it is likely for FD or Chang to be scum, and which they prefer out of that duo? I am paranoid now that I saved FD from a lynch, though I think I would have made that same decision D1 with the way people were voting him anyways. I guess Plum will get to claim "I told you so" after if he was right, even if I disagree with how he got there. :)

To Dumeys credit it is true that the chance Corrik was ninja'd is higher than 0%.

But it's still a low enough number that we take the high% lynch every time.

And on the off chance you're town I appreciate you putting in some effort today, dumey. But I won't be giving weight to your words until and unless your town flip happens, sorry

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Wrong, we just know better to space out turkey days.

Do you also eat turkey on Christmas? My family traditionally has Ham for Christmas, so I don't think I run into this. Unless there's another turkey day I'm not aware of.

Nah the anger is warranted.

I don't fault you for that at all.

Abacus has been active nonstop today on discord and that pisses me off a little regardless of alignment.

EDumey posted...

Do you also eat turkey on Christmas? My family traditionally has Ham for Christmas, so I don't think I run into this. Unless there's another turkey day I'm not aware of.

Both happen on both holidays generally in Canada, because we are smart enough to have variety everyone can enjoy.

Dumey I know whats important with the way your claimed role works.
I am just saying if you had found out that Corrik could move, he would have a million stories to talk his way out of it.

wallmasterz posted...

Abacus has been active nonstop today on discord and that pisses me off a little regardless of alignment.

Discord, the new timestamps

wallmasterz posted...

Abacus has been active nonstop today on discord and that pisses me off a little regardless of alignment.

Completely unrelated to this specific game, but I hate how much you track people's activity on discord and other threads on GameFAQs. It's really annoying to me. People use socialization as an important part of their work/life balance. And Mafia can be stressful to people. Having the availability to be on discord/gameFAQs is not always the same as having the availability to play mafia.

Dumey's flip probably resolves the existence of a ninja.

We eat duck or pork for Christmas here. Thanksgiving is none existent.

But yes if he could not move, sure thats more ironclad.

Maybe I need to cool it with that, but when someone says they arent participating due to irl stuff but they can be online all day elsewhere, its like ok

mafia being stressful doesnt mean you get to just decide youre gonna avoid playing the game

Were 1000 posts in, if someone has posted like four times but theyre able to be online, I dont really feel bad for noticing and disliking it

if you sign up and dont play youre hindering everyone elses experience. Corrik was really active for d1 for him, I know Lea was eagerly waiting for the return of b8 mafia after months, so people kinda blowing the game off while scum has killed the people who wanted to play is annoying

wallmasterz posted...

Abacus has been active nonstop today on discord and that pisses me off a little regardless of alignment.

Kill him

Tomorrow

I'm assuming from the way it was claimed, that Chang's ability to see who enters the neighborhood is Chang specific, and not something FD had access to as well, right?

Why was Corrik plain vanilla Neighbor and Chang got more?

Would it make sense for Chang to have a neighborhood specific power as scum neighbor, as a light scum power to detect town power?

Is it possible that they ninja killed Corrik, and used that additional info that I visited as a good opportunity to stall out the day and lynch town power?

Even that sounds a little TOO convenient to me. I know FD probably wouldn't answer this to me in particular, but it does make me curious if he also has some secondary effect, or if he is vanilla neighbor and Chang is the only one with extra.

You guys are right, people should sign up and then post 3 times in 3 days citing their irl obligations hindering them from mafia but apparently not literally anything else online

oh it just clicked for me with this recent string of posts. Dumey is lying.

a bit unfortunate for him, really. he got tripped up by information the scum team almost certainly could not have had access to. he's as good as lynched today anyway, and there's potential that this piece of info could continue to flummox the scum team so I'd prefer not to further explain what I mean by this.

changmas posted...

a bit unfortunate for him, really. he got tripped up by information the scum team almost certainly could not have had access to.

Is it just me, or does this sentence not make sense? Got tripped up by info scum team DOESN'T have? Wouldn't town be in the same scenario? If both scenarios involve not having info, doesn't that make it a null tell? But I understand you're saying you're not going to elaborate. Just confused on that.

something you said cannot possibly be true, but it wouldn't be possible for you to know that with the information you have

UltimaterializerX posted...

I wanted him dead day one and when he flips mafia roleblocker tomorrow Im going to be insufferable, just FYI.

Abacus is the other person I voted for with strong desire to see lynched d1 besides sbell. Sultan was a self preservation vote.

changmas posted...

something you said cannot possibly be true, but it wouldn't be possible for you to know that with the information you have

All I can say is hope you're certain about that, and not just misunderstanding my claim or something like multiple people did before. Will certainly be some egg on your face if you're making assumptions and not clearly stating things that could have been resolved with an explanation.

wallmasterz posted...

scum sbell has a habit of bussing his mates, and youre the only person he really did much to suspect. What do you think of that, and do you ever plan to actually play beyond reacting to being suspected?

We only have one day to judge him from. I say pay it no mind. The goal here is to lynch scum, not mislynch town. I don't take past games into consideration and since I'm vanilla town again, it doesn't matter what I do. Lynching me only helps scum get away for another night.

I'm inactive, I know, and am not feeling like myself anymore. Seasonal change is hitting me hard. And that's why I don't give a fuck.

Also, we go for confirmed scum. Always.

##unvote
##vote: Dumey

htaeD posted...

I never know when a Thanksgiving happens

I had forgotten about Canadian Thanksgiving myself lol

I went over why Dumey's claim was completely bonkers and made no sense long ago so I have no idea why anyone is still taking it like it had any value at any point since.

red13n posted...

I went over why Dumey's claim was completely bonkers and made no sense long ago so I have no idea why anyone is still taking it like it had any value at any point since.

Crazy that you take pride in not being able to read. You said you thought I was a motion detector, lmao.

EDumey posted...

Crazy that you take pride in not being able to read. You said you thought I was a motion detector, lmao.

oh I see. Still a weird scan choice tbh.

So can you explain that to me again in detail. Along with any quirks your role specifies with its actions. Or is it left at "can move" or "cant move".

I'd prefer you to be as specific as possible.