Board 8 > Politics Containment 445: Game Over - Return of Trump

(+) Yeah! (+)

GranzonEx posted...

They generally don't prevent crime in the literal sense. But because they are a deterrent because there's usually consequences when you commit a crime. If nothing happens when you commit a crime then other criminals are emboldened to act.

People aren't divided into 'criminals' and 'non-criminals'. Most people who commit crimes do so because of opportunity or circumstance. Police, in theory, reduce opportunity, but they're mostly ineffective in that regard. It's much better to fix the circumstances than reduce opportunity, because in the right circumstances desperate people will do anything.

AxemRedRanger posted...

She has a husband and two stepchildren.

If what you mean is that "not birthing children herself hurt her with these communities", you really should have said that instead.

Fair, you're right on that.
But she also didn't really talk about them or family nearly as much as she should've. For better or worse, I've definitely seen that as a dig against her, the whole being childless is notable. If she leaned more into being a step-parent I think that could've been mitigated more, just have definitely heard those conversations and that's a quiet part said that signals what they really think (don't trust her, don't believe she's good for the future, etc).

GranzonEx posted...

They generally don't prevent crime in the literal sense. But because they are a deterrent because there's usually consequences when you commit a crime. If nothing happens when you commit a crime then other criminals are emboldened to act.

There is no evidence that the existence of police deters crime.

You know what does deter crime? Having a society where people don't need to resort to crime to scrape by.

Corrik7 posted...

I'm not aware of any claims of child rape against Trump besides the one that every time a journalist tried to dive into it came out with them thinking the girl didn't actually exist.

So I can't speak to what you are saying.

It's alleged in Epstein's appointments but no claimed victims yet. You'll only consider it when it's a real case?

foolm0r0n posted...

It's alleged in Epstein's appointments but no claimed victims yet. You'll only consider it when it's a real case?

Well there's E. Jean Carrol. She's not a child, but I'd think raping a woman would be pretty bad too. JMO

Wanglicious posted...

it's an obvious case of government overreach definitely went too far and lefties should be equally pissed. justice for peanut.

it's a squirrel, and my friends are going to die and I quite possibly will too.
but if you wanna play that angle, justice for kristi noem's dog, and all the dogs the police kill

I think one thing Trump had great success with in 2016 and this year was making specific policy proposals which would visibly benefit voters or people they know. In 2016, it was cutting taxes for about 85% of the population, tariffs, the Wall (not that this had a reasonable chance of helping people but people thought it did), and reforming the healthcare system (which he never did). This year, he proposed eliminating income tax on tips and more tariffs. In the last month of the campaign, he also proposed eliminating double taxation of Americans overseas and restoring SALT deductions.

The advantage of policy proposals that put money directly in people's pockets (as opposed to paying for expenses for them) is that putting money directly in people's pockets shows respect for their autonomy and right to choose their own priorities in spending. The Democrats need to reckon with this. Trump does not offer most people very much because his proposals are mostly designed to help the rich, but when the Democrats offer $0 additional dollars in your pocket Trump still has the higher offer.

I think trust and respect are usually reciprocal in humans. Many people trust someone because they feel trusted by that person, more than because of any evidence regarding the person's trustworthiness. Trump more or less bet everything on this election - if he lost, he was looking at potentially many years in prison, the loss of his reputation and legacy, and maybe even bankruptcy. That's a lot of trust he put in the voters and they reciprocated that.

As a sidenote to this, the Democrats need to stop talking about their GOTV operations. When they talk about it, it sounds like they think voters are dumb and need to be reminded to vote. Obama won because he was a great speaker and Bush did a terrible job as president. Not because the Obama campaign had a good GOTV operation. People voted for him because they wanted to, not because they were reminded by some campaign staffer.

AriaOfBolo posted...

it's a squirrel, and my friends are going to die and I quite possibly will too.
but if you wanna play that angle, justice for kristi noem's dog, and all the dogs the police kill

I agree, down with the ATF.

Cant tell me the voters arent dumb though when this absolute buffoon won. He is probably the dumbest individual to have ever been the leader of a nation or extremely close to it

https://x.com/babadookspinoza/status/1854177875093557471?t=y--iGYiyDyaPTjXbGfG3OQ&s=19

How peculiar, I went to my computer this morning and all I see in my Discord direct messages are AAAAAAAAAaaAaaaaaaaaAaaaaAAA

Dancedreamer posted...

Well there's E. Jean Carrol. She's not a child, but I'd think raping a woman would be pretty bad too. JMO

Yeah, that would be the next question. Then there's the whole insurrection trying to kill Pence thing. Then there's issues that are much lighter, but also non-political, like infidelity.

It's a long list of justifications, and a very long bridge to build. But if there is actually a way to bridge it like Corrik says, it's definitely worth figuring it out. I just don't see it right now.

red_sox_777 posted...

Trump does not offer most people very much because his proposals are mostly designed to help the rich, but when the Democrats offer $0 additional dollars in your pocket Trump still has the higher offer.

Why wasn't Biden's IRA tax credits and Kamala's proposed tax credits good enough for this?

Well, pardon the cope, but now that the election is over, and considering he's not reinaugerated YET, maybe sentencing on his actual fucking conviction can proceed.

Hbthebattle posted...

https://x.com/babadookspinoza/status/1854177875093557471?t=y--iGYiyDyaPTjXbGfG3OQ&s=19

There's still like 9 million votes to be counted from California alone. Trump is most likely going to exceed his 2020 total.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I don't know what I'm going to be doing with myself for the next 4 years, but I know that hanging on top of the political news of the day is not going to be it.

I will make sure I'm properly informed of the issues when i vote in 2 years, but I plan to stay as disengaged as possible until then.

Mostly I'm just at a loss right now. At a loss that the actual majority of people are CHOOSING this direction for our country.

See ya'll in 23 months I guess

I'm feeling this big time right now.

It's like, okay, this is what you wanted so hope it works out! But I cannot continue to give my mental energy to the circus the next few years are going to be. it's time to disconnect.

Hbthebattle posted...

https://x.com/babadookspinoza/status/1854177875093557471?t=y--iGYiyDyaPTjXbGfG3OQ&s=19

I was gonna ask when we expect the reasonably final turnout counts.

Because the numbers are absolutely dire right now. Obviously disastrous for Harris but really bad for Trump too. I can imagine why they thought they would lose internally.

I predict a lot of violence in the coming years. A society without punishment for a crime is a society that encourages crime.

foolm0r0n posted...

Why wasn't Biden's IRA tax credits and Kamala's proposed tax credits good enough for this?

Because this was done so quietly that people didn't know she was even proposing that.

Hbthebattle posted...

https://x.com/babadookspinoza/status/1854177875093557471?t=y--iGYiyDyaPTjXbGfG3OQ&s=19

Why did so many democrat voters not vote?

the voting numbers so far do resemble 2016 more than 2020. which is kinda surprising but that's a good 15-20 mil voters who were stay at home.

Talked to a few of my family members, we're all serious about moving to another country lol. Never thought I'd see this happening.

This country can burn

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Why did so many democrat voters not vote?

They cared more during a global pandemic and had fuck all else to do. Complacency is a silent killer

Isquen posted...

Well, pardon the cope, but now that the election is over, and considering he's not reinaugerated YET, maybe sentencing on his actual fucking conviction can proceed.

That's not happening. At all. His criminal trials will be gone. (Scotus was never going to let them stand anyway)

Very much a side note but Nate proves to be goat again

I don't post here at all anymore because politics is depressing and frankly it's just not good for my mental health to engage in political discussions. But like in 2016, this isn't very surprising if you've paid attention to what people are pissed off about instead of relying on very online areas.

I anticipated this a couple months ago. Nobody was excited about Kamala from the jump, and it was clear she was the DNC approved candidate and guess what those guys still suck. The whole thing with Biden's health hadn't helped either. It doesn't help either that Kamala continued to be clowned on after. Probably the worst thing that happened was Kamala constantly just saying they're going to keep doing what Biden has been doing, because NOBODY wanted that. Left or right.

The Israel and Palestine War is a big deal for a lot of people, and people are upset that so much money was given for this. It also doesn't help that it's caused a lot of antisemetism in the states. People want out of this and they were not listened to.

The economy is dog water. House prices are insane. And leftists have been trying to convince people things are better, actually, when they know it's not. Young people know what they're inheriting and they just want change for their own future. Older people don't want their kids inheriting that. This is probably the biggest issue because it impacts everyone's lives.

Immigration is a big deal and if anyone is wondering why the Latino vote is red, polls have stated that they don't feel Trump is talking about them with his gross rhetoric, and is instead talking about the illegal ones. They don't have as many illegal connections as people think. And many immigrants hate that people were able to come here illegally while they had to work so hard to get here. It's not easy to immigrate (and it should be easier), but they want that to be a process people go through like them.

Kamala's campaign seemed to try to get everyone from progressives (barely) to the right, and it suffered for it. It didn't focus enough on the main issue of inflation, people didn't feel like their issues were being heard because they were expected to vote for Kamala anyway. And a lot of people didn't feel heard, on many issues.

A lot of us understood the stakes here, and we gave our vote to Kamala. But a lot of people just want to have a better life for themselves and feel like they've been let down the past four years, or they have other issues they feel more strongly about that the Dems were very clear on those issues too.

I am just begging the DNC and the left to get their fucking shit together, because calling people garbage instead of listening to them is not the call, and this is a complete failure on the left to not secure this election and it's ridiculous to blame anything else. They need to figure it the fuck out, but I think they'll just think the issue is that they need to go more right.

One of the popular progressive voting guides in Chicago suggested abstaining from the presidential vote and writing in "Free Gaza" instead.

I'm curious if there was a large number of D voters doing this around the country but I'm not sure if that could be tracked or if it would be counted as larger numbers of 3rd party voters.

I mean I doubt there was 15 million people doing that but IDK

Dancedreamer posted...

People aren't divided into 'criminals' and 'non-criminals'. Most people who commit crimes do so because of opportunity or circumstance. Police, in theory, reduce opportunity, but they're mostly ineffective in that regard. It's much better to fix the circumstances than reduce opportunity, because in the right circumstances desperate people will do anything.

PeaceFrog posted...

There is no evidence that the existence of police deters crime.

You know what does deter crime? Having a society where people don't need to resort to crime to scrape by.

I hope we can live in this utopia one day.

On the plus side, Kari Lake lost to Ruben Gallego.

Leopards, faces

https://twitter.com/lautarogrinspan/status/1854178354972287207

kevwaffles posted...

Leopards, faces

https://twitter.com/lautarogrinspan/status/1854178354972287207

Let me guess. They have absolutely no clue about the "putting families in cages and separating their children from them" stories.

GranzonEx posted...

I hope we can live in this utopia one day.

This isn't some 'utopian ideal'. The fact is that people aren't 'criminals'. They're people who commit crimes. You have to address the root cause of crimes in order to reduce crime. But that's not popular because it takes time, and people want instant gratification.

AuraChannelerCh posted...

Let me guess. They have absolutely no clue about the "putting families in cages and separating their children from them" stories.

All I know is complaining about "illegals voting" needs to be double retired. Not just because it's not happening. Because they'll just vote for the people making the claim.

(Formerly illegal) immigrants voting for Trump is common. Closing the door behind you, shrugging, and going "fuck everyone else, got mine" is a pretty universal human trait.

Sure hope they dont start crying when theyre deported since they voted for the guy who said hed deport them.

The fact is, when you immigrate to the US, illegal or not, you become an American. And Americans hate those damn illegals.

One of the earliest news stories I remember from Trump's first administration was the deportation of Arabic immigrants in Michigan, some of whom had been in the US for decades.

It didn't really change much.

GranzonEx posted...

I hope we can live in this utopia one day.

Great example of how people react when you try to sympathize with their problems but also insist on involving reality in the conversation. Maybe if we give police more tanks it will finally end crime, a thing which can be fought and killed, forever.

You think in another timeline his ear wasnt clipped and we could travel there instead?

A friend of mine posted a picture of his two sons, aged 13, jumping and celebrating wearing suits and MAGA hats.

Genuinely made my stomach turn.

Every single swing state huh.

Yeah the US is going to get exactly what it deserves here.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

A lot of us understood the stakes here, and we gave our vote to Kamala. But a lot of people just want to have a better life for themselves and feel like they've been let down the past four years, or they have other issues they feel more strongly about that the Dems were very clear on those issues too.

I mean this is going to be the driving force the next 4 years. These people are in for a rude awakening, where Trump is much more likely to make the costs of goods and the day to day life expenses more expensive, and that's only if more voting rights and civil rights don't get gutted.

America is either doomed, or we go through a rebirth moment. I'm not hopeful for the latter.

Gamers are gonna be pissed when their electronics suddenly rise in price by 40%.

it's a fantastic time to build yourself an AM4 PC!
i might build a backup even at this point

It's always troubling when an average citizen can be much smarter than the president.

AuraChannelerCh posted...

It's always troubling when an average citizen can be much smarter than the president.

After last night, I disagree with that sentiment being remotely factual

scarletspeed7 posted...

After last night, I disagree with that sentiment being remotely factual

Sympathy can be very misplaced, however.

Sorozone posted...

I mean this is going to be the driving force the next 4 years. These people are in for a rude awakening, where Trump is much more likely to make the costs of goods and the day to day life expenses more expensive, and that's only if more voting rights and civil rights don't get gutted.

America is either doomed, or we go through a rebirth moment. I'm not hopeful for the latter.

Gamers are gonna be pissed when their electronics suddenly rise in price by 40%.

Sure, we all know this but if you're the average voter who is being told "No things aren't THAT bad now and you aren't paying that much more" and the other option is saying she's going to keep doing what the other guy is doing that you're already not happy with, do you stick with that side, or do you go with the guy who might actually make a change and has actually said he wants to make a change?

Messaging is important and, like usual, democrat messaging sucks.

All I have to say is the US got what they asked for. Again.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Sure, we all know this but if you're the average voter who is being told "No things aren't THAT bad now and you aren't paying that much more" and the other option is saying she's going to keep doing what the other guy is doing that you're already not happy with, do you stick with that side, or do you go with the guy who might actually make a change and has actually said he wants to make a change?

Messaging is important and, like usual, democrat messaging sucks.

Oh I don't disagree.

It's just not fun being collateral damage.