Board 8 > yeah, I think it's time to stop doing GameFAQs contests

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 2:00:00 PM
#301:


From: UltimaterializerX | #299
There's no proof of that and you'll never make me think otherwise !!


Well of course, you'll believe whatever you want to.

But your understanding of Geolocation is worse than Albion's if you think those results mean Melee wins a day match or 24-hour match.

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Safer Sephiroth 777
12/18/11 2:03:00 PM
#302:


I don't understand about Melee/Brawl.I mean it is essentialy the same game with more characters and levels.Man that is why everyone hates the drones no matter what series/games they support...

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XIII_rocks
12/18/11 2:04:00 PM
#303:


I was saying this in B8C yesterday but honestly, for me, SSBB/FFX/RE4/SSBM would all have been good winners.

RE4 is one of the most ubiquitously popular games out there. The amount of people who actively dislike it, from my experience, is very very small. Good sales, critically well-received, completely revolutionized a series and genre, has a cult fanbase and mainstream success.

SSBB and SSBM are both great games in their own right and the tournament fell in a way that had them set to meet each other.
Honestly they were both well-received, both well-liked, both had fantastic selling points. They both delivered in pretty much every way, and whichever one won would have been a fine winner.

I personally loathe FFX but it's a good choice if we're calling something GotD. On a site that loves jRPGs and Final Fantasy in particular, you have FFX, which is pretty much indisputably the best FF (and arguably jRPG) of the decade. An incredibly well-received game and very loved.

The only criticism of it is that, because of how early in the decade it came out, it could be seen as a shadow of the 90s in the way MM is. But I think being a PS2 game - undoubtedly the console of the 00s - kind of puts that one to bed. Plus it came out well over a year after MM.


MM was a horrible winner, the definitive example of people just flocking to "The Zelda Option". Developed in the 90s on a 90s console with a 90s engine, the inferior to OoT in terms of criticism and fan reaction. Just terrible. GSC would have been a poor winner in a similar kind of way, so it's not some kind of anti-Zelda or MM bias (I've never played it).

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Safer Sephiroth 777
12/18/11 2:06:00 PM
#304:


Yeah I mean ask any Zelda fan and almost everyone will say that is worse than OOT.But of course it was the game of the decade because Zelda!

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Not_Wylvane
12/18/11 2:06:00 PM
#305:


Why is this topic so large?

Why are people calling for the end of contests because of one shoddy one? That's like saying Survivor should be cancelled because the most recent season was s***ty when it's just as possible that the next one will be great.

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Lightning Strikes
12/18/11 2:07:00 PM
#306:


From: UItimaterializer | #1457
Dude it set up the best final we'll ever have. But Brawl only won because of a continent that likes gun control and banning the right to protest, so we all know who the true winner is !!


Aww yeah drastically lower murder rates.

Also implying those things are true across the entirety of a continent. Hell, some parts of the EU have hilariously loose gun control. And that's not even getting into the second...

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Sorozone
12/18/11 2:08:00 PM
#307:


From: Not_Wylvane | #305
Why are people calling for the end of contests because of one shoddy one?


Board likes to overreact.

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XIII_rocks
12/18/11 2:08:00 PM
#308:


I agree that contests should not simply end, but the votals have been crappy and site traffic is generally falling.

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XIII_rocks
12/18/11 2:09:00 PM
#309:


...LS I can't believe you literally fell for that.

Almost as bad as when you'd drag Vlado to 200-post arguments by actually responding to the man

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PartOfYourWorld
12/18/11 2:11:00 PM
#310:


From: Safer Sephiroth 777 | #302
I don't understand about Melee/Brawl.I mean it is essentialy the same game with more characters and levels.Man that is why everyone hates the drones no matter what series/games they support...


It's way more complicated than that. More features and characters isn't necessarily enough to make a game stronger, or to even justify it being stronger. The 2D sections in SMG2 are better than the entirety of SMB, but which one would win a contest match? Also, recall how easily the original Halo, with its non-online multiplayer and non-HD graphics, easily beat Halo 3.

Melee was THE biggest GameCube game and THE preeminent console multiplayer game for three years (until Halo 2). When it launched, it represented the standard for console multiplayer games. When Brawl launched with its gimped-ass multiplayer, it was already lagging behind $10-15 Xbox Live games.

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Not_Wylvane
12/18/11 2:12:00 PM
#311:


Let me put it another way.

This is a contest where Bartz won a match. Not only did f***ing Bartz make a contest in the first place, he actually won a f***ing match.

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Lightning Strikes
12/18/11 2:13:00 PM
#312:


From: Safer Sephiroth 777 | #1504
Yeah I mean ask any Zelda fan and almost everyone will say that is worse than OOT.But of course it was the game of the decade because Zelda!


Explains why TP beat Brawl right?

Also you understand nothing about how the Zelda fanbase works, particularly the people who like Majora's Mask. It's preferred to OoT by not a majority, but a very significant, devoted fanbase. It has a lot of appreciation with the more "hardcore" and that makes it a good rally target. And that's why it won, not because it's a Zelda game or running on OoT's engine, but because it's just very loved by that very devoted group. I'd argue a lot of MM fans aren't even really fans of the series as a whole.

And while I am disappointed that what was functionally a 90's game won, I can at least say that it wasn't because of 90's nostalgia or being a direct sequel to OoT, but because the game itself was very loved.

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Lightning Strikes
12/18/11 2:14:00 PM
#313:


From: XIII_rocks | #1509
...LS I can't believe you literally fell for that.

Almost as bad as when you'd drag Vlado to 200-post arguments by actually responding to the man


Well here's my reasoning, unlike with Vlado

This is what Ulti actually believes.

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Lucid Faia
12/18/11 2:16:00 PM
#314:


The "rivalry" concept was lame to begin with. I've paid close to zero attention to this contest.

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XIII_rocks
12/18/11 2:24:00 PM
#315:


From: Safer Sephiroth 777 | #302
I don't understand about Melee/Brawl.I mean it is essentialy the same game with more characters and levels.Man that is why everyone hates the drones no matter what series/games they support...


I honestly believe that people who love Melee and hate Brawl just lack...perspective.

The concept is still fantastic, it's still hilarious fun, it has one of the best soundtracks in any game, it has Solid Snake, I don't see what there is to absolutely despise if you like Melee so much. Prefer one to the other? Absolutely fine, I get that. But...yeah. It's just very odd to me. Similar to loving Pokemon GSC but then hating RSE or something.

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 2:24:00 PM
#316:


From: XIII_rocks | #315
Similar to loving Pokemon GSC but then hating RSE or something.


Isn't that a pretty common opinion though?

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UItimaterializer
12/18/11 2:24:00 PM
#317:


Gun control does not directly lead to lower murder rates. Decriminalized drugs do. This isn't even up for debate. Criminals will always find a way to get guns, with or without gun control, and the population needs a way to defend itself. The second a population has their right to bear arms removed, that population is a group of glorified slaves since they have to rely on authorities to defend themselves from violent criminals.

People disagreeing are the reason Europe is close to full financial collapse, because they all assume government is incapable of corruption.

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#318
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Lucid Faia
12/18/11 2:27:00 PM
#319:


XIII_rocks posted...
From: Safer Sephiroth 777 | #302
I don't understand about Melee/Brawl.I mean it is essentialy the same game with more characters and levels.Man that is why everyone hates the drones no matter what series/games they support...
I honestly believe that people who love Melee and hate Brawl just lack...perspective.

The concept is still fantastic, it's still hilarious fun, it has one of the best soundtracks in any game, it has Solid Snake, I don't see what there is to absolutely despise if you like Melee so much. Prefer one to the other? Absolutely fine, I get that. But...yeah. It's just very odd to me. Similar to loving Pokemon GSC but then hating RSE or something.


Tripping, mostly. And Nintendo's other training-wheel safety-net kindercare RNG anyone-can-win nonsense. I bet the next Smash game has blue shells.

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XIII_rocks
12/18/11 2:29:00 PM
#320:


From: LeonhartFour | #316
Isn't that a pretty common opinion though?


Not outright hate, no. Mediocre, sure. Personally I think GS and RSE were about the same, until HG/SS came out and realized all the potential GS didn't fulfill.

I've seen a lot of people blame RSE for putting them off Pokemon but I think that's more due to people just having grown up by the time it came out? Some of the people who were kids when GS came out would have just started middle/high school when RS came out, for example.

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#321
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XIII_rocks
12/18/11 2:41:00 PM
#322:


Tripping, mostly. And Nintendo's other training-wheel safety-net kindercare RNG anyone-can-win nonsense. I bet the next Smash game has blue shells.

Tripping is one of the things I was about to use as an example. It's a lame feature but I don't really mind it. Certainly it doesn't kill the game, it's just an annoying flaw.

I mean I want to say Brawl haters are just overexaggerating it for the sake of trolling, but it's not just Ulti (though nobody does it with Ulti's volume). And it's not like they colluded to troll Brawl for three years. So idk.

And yeah, it's Nintendo, it's a kid-friendly company. They've done this for years with most of their "competitive" games. Your Mario Kart example is perfect. People who wanted to play Smash competitively - and by that I mean metagaming and stuff, not just playing around with friends - lucked out with Melee as far as I'm concerned.

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SpeedYoshi
12/18/11 2:57:00 PM
#323:


From: Safer Sephiroth 777 | #302
I don't understand about Melee/Brawl.I mean it is essentialy the same game with more characters and levels.Man that is why everyone hates the drones no matter what series/games they support...


Except... its not.... at all.

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Not_Wylvane
12/18/11 3:45:00 PM
#324:


Brawl offers a limited income flow compared to Melee.

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Ngamer64
12/18/11 9:12:00 PM
#325:


Pokemon puts up 60% on FF7 at the ten minute mark! tranny's faith in these Contests has been restored!

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LOLContests
12/18/11 9:15:00 PM
#326:


No game designer should feel obligated to change their vision because of what the fans want. It's the designer's idea that's supposed to be being expressed.

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 9:18:00 PM
#327:


From: Ngamer64 | #325
Pokemon puts up 60% on FF7 at the ten minute mark! tranny's faith in these Contests has been restored!


Yes, more Nintendo dominance.

That's just what we want to see!

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Naye745
12/18/11 9:20:00 PM
#328:


i'm pretty sick of them, personally. when the last games contest failed to excite me at all, i realized the whole thing had pretty much run its course.

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GuessMyUserName
12/18/11 9:22:00 PM
#329:


From: LeonhartFour | Posted: 12/19/2011 12:18:01 AM | #327
Yes, more Nintendo dominance.

That's just what we want to see!


... because Cloud winning against a non-Link character is so surprising.

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#330
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Not_Wylvane
12/18/11 9:29:00 PM
#331:


From: UltimaterializerX | #330
It's actually supposed to be both. Marvel vs Capcom 3 failed because Capcom refused to listen to MvC2 tournament players.

Capcom in general is the king of not listening to fans. You want a company that listens to fans and implements what designers want? Wizards of the Coast. If the fans all say they hate something, it gets banned from MTG tournaments.

If the fans tell Capcom or Nintendo something sucks, they just make more of it.


Companies make more money selling to casual gamers than the hardcore competitive teams, though. Granted, it's not fair to compare Melee and Brawl's sales since the latter was on a much more successful console, and I have no clue how MvC2 and MvC3 have sold, so I don't really have any evidence for this claim.

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 9:36:00 PM
#332:


From: GuessMyUserName | #329
... because Cloud winning against a non-Link character is so surprising.


It's almost like you missed the point or something!

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GuessMyUserName
12/18/11 9:37:00 PM
#333:


complaining about nintendo domination when it's a match against Cloud is just silly

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Ngamer64
12/18/11 9:39:00 PM
#334:


Guess how many teens posted...
We need the battle contest to have each battle like the final one.

Heck yes, turning Battle into a simplified version of Spread Bet would be sweet. Though really there were enough upsets for normal Battle to be fine for GotD, and it'll be fine for 128 Games again also.

transience posted...
Skyward Sword would get rocked by Twilight Princess. hell, Link's Awakening could probably take Skyward Sword.

TP could win, though I still think it would be close... but fine, let's see what happens in GotY before making any further assumptions.

Lightning Strikes posted...
Brawl didn't really gain anti-votes. If it didn't get anti-voted against Melee, it wasn't going to suddenly start. MM just gained a ton of momentum.

Disagree, Brawl looked quite clearly stronger in the early half of that bracket than it did against Fallout and Majora later on. Melee/Brawl asked "which Smash do you like more?" and since the GameCube didn't take off outside of the US, people answered Brawl. But when voters realized "wait, this is going to win GAME OF THE DECADE!?" in the last rounds, they turned on it.

XIII_rocks posted...
MM was a horrible winner, the definitive example of people just flocking to "The Zelda Option". Developed in the 90s on a 90s console with a 90s engine, the inferior to OoT in terms of criticism and fan reaction. Just terrible. GSC would have been a poor winner in a similar kind of way, so it's not some kind of anti-Zelda or MM bias (I've never played it).

welp

LOLContests posted...
What Bacon should do is just set up a schedule of contests in a five year cycle that can be repeated. If he has time to have little side contests, fine but otherwise don't worry about switching things up.

Year 1: Characters
Year 2: Non-VG Characters
Year 3: Games
Year 4: Characters:
Year 5: Something different/GOTD when applicable

There, done. Would this be difficult to stick with?


Yup, a yearly rotation of Games/Characters/Something Different (along with some possible mini-brackets thrown in here and there) would be ideal. I think we all agree that doing a Character Battle every single year like the old days isn't necessary/desirable anymore.

HaRRicH posted...
While GameFAQs has fallen into a rut of sorts where it's not changing its tastes much lately, I'm not letting this contest discourage future contests. This one was a bad idea from the start AND it was poorly designed. Furthermore, if it was a contest designed to give Link/Ganon a scare, what a terrible time to hold the contest; this is LoZ's twenty-fifth anniversary, LoZ:OoT3D came out earlier in the year, and LoZ:SS released mid-contest. That's a tough task for anyone already trying to do the near-impossible of defeating Link.

We've rebounded from bad contests before and can again. I just hope the site can expand again so it can remain current too.


Best post in this topic.

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 9:39:00 PM
#335:


Considering Cloud is about the only thing left stopping a complete Nintendo saturation of at the top of these contests, it's not exactly silly.

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SHINE GET 64
12/18/11 9:40:00 PM
#336:


Nintendomination the only thing that keeps these contests tolerable

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XIII_rocks
12/18/11 9:40:00 PM
#337:


welp

You missed the point of my post completely if you think I need to have played it to have that opinion >_>

It's not a matter of "not getting it", it's about what the win represents and the factual reasons why it's basically only a 00s game on a technicality.

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-LusterSoldier-
12/18/11 9:42:00 PM
#338:


LeonhartFour | Posted 12/18/2011 4:56:28 PM | message detail | quote
(No, Melee leading in America at the end of 12 hours doesn't mean it wins in the day or in a 24-hour match, considering Brawl didn't really start dominating until we hit American-dominant timeframes)


Brawl was dominating the morning vote in America, but Melee only won there because Brawl ran out of time to take the lead in America. In a day match, Brawl would have dominated the American ASV and the same goes for a 24-hour match.

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 9:43:00 PM
#339:


Thanks for backing me up, Luster.

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WHATZITUYA
12/18/11 9:47:00 PM
#340:


red sox 777 posted...
I hate people's stupid arguments about keeping Link in.

KP, as far as I can remember, I think I'm pretty much the only one in the stats topic who strongly supports keeping Link in.
2002 Link, 2003 Cloud, 2004 Link, 2005 Link, 2006 Link, 2008 Link, 2010 Link, 2011 Cloud.
Link 6, Cloud 2


Dude, your sig lies...

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GuessMyUserName
12/18/11 9:47:00 PM
#341:


From: LeonhartFour | Posted: 12/19/2011 12:39:17 AM | #335
Considering Cloud is about the only thing left stopping a complete Nintendo saturation of at the top of these contests, it's not exactly silly.


People want to ban Link because it's so predictable, he always wins. Cloud is the #2 person in the contests, never losing to a non-Link character, and we don't want him to lose? That's silly. Unpredictable results are far more important than company ties.

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 9:49:00 PM
#342:


From: GuessMyUserName | #341
Cloud is the #2 person in the contests, never losing to a non-Link character


Cloud's lost to non-Link characters on multiple occasions!

The only problem is "company ties" mean "Boring SFF matches at the end of the contest"

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GuessMyUserName
12/18/11 9:51:00 PM
#343:


From: LeonhartFour | Posted: 12/19/2011 12:49:42 AM | #342
The only problem is "company ties" mean "Boring SFF matches at the end of the contest"


Not with a competent bracket maker.

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 9:53:00 PM
#344:


From: GuessMyUserName | #343
Not with a competent bracket maker.


Well, good luck avoiding bad SFF when your final four consists of Link, Mario, Samus, and Snake/Cloud.

And that's IF the bracket maker is competent.

Cloud and Sephiroth are getting weaker. There's no doubt about it. They're eventually going to drop below Mario and Samus at the rate they're going. Heck, Sephiroth's probably already there.

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StealThisSheen
12/18/11 9:55:00 PM
#345:


Wait.

Did we seriously go from complaining about how predictable contests are and how Link always wins... To then complaining when Cloud loses to somebody that isn't Link.

Really.

Screw this "lol nintendomination" crap. That's just being silly.

"Argh this contest is so predictable it sucks! Hey, wait, something that almost never happens happened. Argh this is so awful!"



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Rad Link 5
12/18/11 9:56:00 PM
#346:


We probably don't even have this board without the contests.

Cancel the damn contests.

No but seriously, the contests would at least be sort of interesting if we could just nominate anyone who's been in a video game plus Santa Claus. Remember how good Santa did on Link? I want to see what John Madden can do. And if none of them can break the top 20-25, then yeah, kill the damn thing.

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LeonhartFour
12/18/11 9:57:00 PM
#347:


Cloud has lost to not-Link literally every time we've had a non-1v1 contest. Literally every time.

From: StealThisSheen | #345
Screw this "lol nintendomination" crap. That's just being silly.


Except it isn't. The more Nintendo dominates the top of the contest, the worse the end of the contests become because SFF will start flying all over the place.

Also "Link always wins" and "Complaining when Cloud loses to somebody isn't Link" aren't even remotely related claims.

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StealThisSheen
12/18/11 10:02:00 PM
#348:


Aren't you one of the people that goes on about how different 4-ways are and how they don't count and crap.

Like, you're basically saying you don't want predictability

Unless it's predictability you like.



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ZFS
12/18/11 10:08:00 PM
#349:


Arguing against the Nintendo domination is the silly part. It's becoming more pronounced, not less so, and no realistic bracket can be expected to fix the problem. There have only ever been two worthwhile companies in this contest -- Nintendo and Square -- and one of them has been getting progressively weaker all around, leaving a void that's not being filled by anyone else. Nintendo is going to start dominating the popularity at the top, and there's almost no real way to fix it.

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StealThisSheen
12/18/11 10:10:00 PM
#350:


I find "Hey, Pokemon is getting progressively stronger. Is it the rivalry factor, will it transfer over to the games, etc. etc.?" more interesting than "Zelda > FF7 whoooo," personally, regardless of Pokemon being Nintendo or not.

But apparently I'm in the minority, so... Cool.



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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif
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