Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 13: A Dramatic Turn of Events

(+) Yeah! (+)

turbopuns3 posted...

It was based on my claim making more sense if I'm town than scum, and assisted by me not being a player who is described by his initial PoE steps which he just listed (including Chris's read)

Your claim that you have since completely rescinded?

Yes

Not the flavor and role itself but the way in which I went about it

turbopuns3 posted...

Not the flavor and role itself but the way in which I went about it

What
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Guys this really shouldn't warrant multiple posts of discussion and explanation

Forever ago cam called me town

I said cam why am I town

He said I see more scenarios where I'm gambiting as town than anything else

Later I asked him if he'd still think I was town if I rescinded my claim

He said yes he would because his town read of me had nothing to do with me being King James or Miller

So contrary to what 5tar just implied, the fact I took back the claim has no impact on his read because he saw me as gambiting town to begin with

And we are only having this pointless tangent because I asked Cam to tell me why he thinks death is town

What does this have to do with him asking if u rescinded ur claim and u said yes but not with regards to ur role or flavor.

That's ????
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Sorry for being a little blunt I've been feeling a little agitated at the game today (game day) because I feel we are way overthinking and grinding gears unnecessarily on cam and other things

Also related to the fact I'm at GDQ so I'm not fully tuned in but I have been keeping my participation to minimum pertinent thoughts and aiming for less circular unproductive arguments

Let's just lynch SBell finally

Corrik I'm done talking about it. Reread if you're confused

Lopen might be right we should lynch Lolo. Just thought of something. Getting confirmation on something about my role first. Tho.
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If I misunderstood my role, Lolo has to be scum or the game is broken.

If I understood my role correctly, then this is all for nothing.

Explain later.
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hopefully not much later.

I'll explain.

Someone asked why I didn't save Chris night 2 and if I can consecutively.

I assumed I could only use this the night they are targeted for a kill and delay it a night.

However, re-reading my role it doesn't actually say that. It says if I target them the night they die, they will die the following night.

If I take this literally, for example with Chris, if he is shot night 1. I delay it to night 2 with my power. Then he would die night 2. And I could in theory target him night 2 and this would delay it to night 3 and so on ad infinitum. Based on what my role literally says. I assumed the above because well I didn't think.

However, if it is the literal explanation and not what I assumed then BG cannot exist because it is broken.

Here is why. BG bodyguards me every night. I chrono him every night. And voila. Neither of us can die the entire game. I keep delaying the death on him all game while he cannot be killed while BGing me or being shot directly.

That would be broken.

Thus, if the literal explanation is correct for my role, BG is broken with this and cannot exist. Same with doctor itself.

I assumed the former explanation, and like I said, I may have fucked up royally with my role because if it is the literal explanation, I could have saved Chris night 2 and delayed it to night 3. And I could have gotten Lolo's Lynch today without claiming if I knew it couldn't exist due to being broken with mine.

I am extremely confused on how my actual role is supposed to work tho. I have clarified some things, but I didn't think to ask this til someone asked me earlier because I just assumed it worked the other way and I was a bit embarrassed when I re-read it.
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And re-director kinda points to it literally working that way too.
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Your logic extends towards:

No other protective role may exist

If any other protective roles exist, chain heals could be coordinated

I would counter with this:

The chain can be broken by a roleblock right?

Camarija posted...

Your logic extends towards:

No other protective role may exist

If any other protective roles exist, chain heals could be coordinated

I would counter with this:

The chain can be broken by a roleblock right?

It would be broken by a re-director. If my role is literal, the only other protection could be passive roles BP / commuter. Hider. Or a Jailkeeper. As they would roleblock me to protect me.
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Interesting

Also they had redirector and a backup. So basically we killed back to back redirectors. Go team.

I was going to kill Lolo with an assumed tracker claim saying he didn't go to 5tar night 2. But, then I remembered they had to of strongmanned Chris cuz no way they shotbinto Chris without assuming he was protected. And red made it known scum knew Chris was saved. So, then I dropped it because I didn't wanna accidentally get Lolo killed when remembering the strongman possibility. But, if I had known how my role literally worked, I would have kept the fake tracker angle to try and protect my role so they would assume that the doctor would protect me when he flipped scum.

Thus, like I said, I totally fucked up if it's literal. And signs kind of point to it.
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Still need it clarified, but if so, Lolo is scum. Cannot exist with me or Han messed up bad in designing the game. I can't see Han messing up.
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If Lolo is scum, definitely scan HB tonight because Lolo might have claimed a harry Potter flavor to try and take heat off of HB and make it seem like the shared flavor was all a mindfuck when really HB just claimed before knowing a flavor scanner existed and scum has to kill me tonight as I will just day the kill on 5tar tonight anyways
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Delay*
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Corrik has a point tho.
You dont get two different types of bulletproof players in the game for that same reason, even if scum has a way to shoot through them.

I just assumed your type of role couldnt use it back to back myself.
Either that or a bodyguards death is not something that it can delay.
Though thats moreso me thinking how I would make the role.

Btw I am not a fan of this Pez lynch that bubbled up.
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I suppose a flavormass might at least clear up the HP mess. But regardless I dont think its impossible for characters to come from the same source.
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I can target consecutively and cannot target myself. Those questions I did ask prior.

My role is kind of a faith thing. Like, I have to assume I protected the kill as I don't get notified and I have to stay on it to effectively prevent a night kill and if I lose faith and switch off, scum eventually gets their extra kill. Or I get redirected off of it or killed.
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htaeD posted...

I suppose a flavormass might at least clear up the HP mess. But regardless I dont think its impossible for characters to come from the same source.

There is no reason to claim anything if my role is literal. Lolo is guaranteed scum and HB is locked into a flavor claim that 5tar will definitely have a night to check it.
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Harry Potter on the safelist might make sense as Cam would be a pseudo miller with being Voldemort.
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Also, let's be honest, Lolo's reaction to me saying he didn't go to 5tar and was scum wasn't the best as far as fluid town reaction (like red's both times).

"I just re-checked. Still town."

He didn't come after me basically at all really for attacking into him and calling him a liar. Just said nuh uh I did. Nuh uh I am town.
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Honestly HB is probably still lying because I just looked back and remembered he claimed nilla and not villager
On its own thats not condemning, I know
But all these little things are adding up too much.
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On the other hand I couldnt find anything that suggests Cam or Lolo saw the Harry Potter claim, so thats a nulltell at worst(also at best)
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htaeD posted...

Honestly HB is probably still lying because I just looked back and remembered he claimed nilla and not villager
On its own thats not condemning, I know
But all these little things are adding up too much.

Hbs reactions around Chris kill were bad.

Btw can u list Chris' 5 initial targets again to shoot where HB was so excited. I remember thinking they were all town based on his reaction.
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NVM I think red was one of them. Have to double-check tho.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

(1) Sir Chris: (Tom), (Ben), (puns), (Sultan), (Scare), Corrik, (puns), (Lea)

But not Tom. Or Sultan.

Bens, Scare, Corrik, Lea, Puns.

One of you shall DIE today

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So red wasn't one of them. And HB gets super excited at this list and tries to drum up some I am so town I swear list idea with instant scummiest positioning.

I would bet anything Lolo is scum here. He claimed Potter flavor to try and help hide HB who is also scum. And all 5 ppl listed here are town.

Scare has flipped town and I know I am.
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Hbthebattle posted...

Everyone, out of the 5 in chriss target, please list them from scummiest to least scummy.

Lea
Puns
Corrik
Ben
Scare

I am telling you this post a minute 30 seconds later reeks of look at me I am so town and excitement at who he was considering.

Reeks of it.
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Bens, Scare, Corrik, Lea, Puns.

I like most of these players, and while I am not a big fan of Ben. He could still be town too.
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I think Lolos Claim is not dissimilar to reds in that its too perfect and it requires a wait and see and itll be obvious that buys potential scum more time.
If I was to use lily as protection it would be a one shot protection though. They wouldnt be living again every night because well she didnt. Its more of a sacrifice role Id say. Like a kill absorb sort of thing.

I didnt like Ben or SBell originally for defending hb. Now youre suggesting lolo is protecting him too. I buy Harry Potter scum godfather as the opposition to Voldemort Miller. Why else would so many scum suspects be defending hb? Even if he scans Harry Potter Id be more inclined to think hes godfather.

5tarscream posted...

I didnt like Ben or SBell originally for defending hb. Now youre suggesting lolo is protecting him too. I buy Harry Potter scum godfather as the opposition to Voldemort Miller. Why else would so many scum suspects be defending hb? Even if he scans Harry Potter Id be more inclined to think hes godfather.

Telling you. Regardless of scan. HB's post I just quoted is the worst in the entire game. It doesn't really make sense from a town mindset. It is way too fast. Way too excited. And way too opportunistic to try and toss a I am town flag. Why would anyones first thought there be to tell the entire game to list them in order for Chris. What town sees that, thinks that, and gets that list written out and ordered within 90 seconds.

That was pure excitement fueling that and a quick toss of a list cuz it didn't matter the order.
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Either way tho. If Lolo is scum, it points to HB and you are guaranteed a scan tonight.

Be careful of a framer type tho. Now that u have confirmed you are a flavor cop, make whoever you scan claim before u do their flavor first. You have alrdy confirmed your power. Unless scum with Ulti
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So who would you lynch today?

Isnt bodyguard already a one shot type deal?
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5tarscream posted...

So who would you lynch today?

Lolo assuming my role works exactly as stated.
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5tarscream posted...

I think Lolos Claim is not dissimilar to reds in that its too perfect and it requires a wait and see and itll be obvious that buys potential scum more time.
If I was to use lily as protection it would be a one shot protection though. They wouldnt be living again every night because well she didnt. Its more of a sacrifice role Id say. Like a kill absorb sort of thing.

BG always works this way.
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I mean if I was making that role. Lily would have died on her first protection, which Id presume was Chris N1. How is Lolo still alive?
Lolo can you answer any of this? Who did you protect?

5tarscream posted...

I mean if I was making that role. Lily would have died on her first protection, which Id presume was Chris N1. How is Lolo still alive?
Lolo can you answer any of this? Who did you protect?

Strongman. But, it doesn't matter. His role can't exist with mine if as stated.
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Corrik

I think both of your role claims can coexist

I'm not seeing why one means the other cannot exist

There's a ton of unknown variables that you seem to be making certain

Among these unknown variables, I'm left with questions without answers.

1) Did you actually save Chris from strongman kill night 1?

2) Do Mafia even have Strongman kills?

3) What are the various Mafia killing roles?

We just can't know any of this, and therefore I'm really at a loss for how you can be so certain that both of your role claims can't coexist

I think hes basically saying its so broken it shouldnt because theyd be invincible as a final 2 and cant lose. He protects lolo. Lolo protects him they cant die. I think is his theory

But did yu get an answer from the host about that yet, Corrik?
(if you could have saved Chris etc)
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5tarscream posted...

Pez I think death is town. His play seems pretty similar to last game and I know there's been a few posts and opinions I've been impressed by though I can't remember the exact posts.

Death hasn't done anything that stands out to me. So, I've got him in the possible scum list. It's almost more POE than anything. But if you do remember anything that stands out to you, I'll happily go reread it.
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