Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 13: A Dramatic Turn of Events

(+) Yeah! (+)

Camarija posted...

and ok

I'll tone down the best player ever as soon as Town stop randomly voting me whenever it's convenient for Mafia to do so

You claimed Voldemort. Even assuming that is your real flavor, and I do assume so. You shouldn't be surprised that you got some suspicion from that claim.
---

Camarija posted...

1. "I'll sheep Luis", despite literally a hundred posts prior having them at "No Read/Haven't Read"

2. Continuously telling me NOT to vote/vig Red

3. Conveniently forgetting this

1. You're way overblowing what was half a joke. Please point out any point at which I actually sheeped Luis. I wanted a smart player to follow around since at that point I had Chris and Pez as scum and Red was gonna be that but was thrown into doubt. See also: I wound up sticking Lopen in that role sorta for a bit.

2. ...Just because you were super upset about the teeth thing. You don't like somebody personally =/= they're scum

3. I believe I mentioned that just yesterday in addition to several points prior (such as every time I brought it back up) so not sure what you're talking about here.

Camarija posted...

Tom continuously says: "No, don't do that"

See point 2 above. As far as I could tell (and can still tell) you were only after Red because you were freaked out about the teeth thing, which A) was not a particularly serious comment and B) has nothing to do with Red's alignment. Going after people for things that are not related to their alignment isn't playing to win, nor is it particularly fun for anybody involved.

Camarija posted...

No idea what the heck any magic tricks are

...well that explains why you thought you got red lynched I guess? It was kinda the major focal point of D2. Something something goldfish something.

Camarija posted...

And here Tom seems to think he was pivotal in lynching Red?

where tf did you get that idea
I was on him but even I have pointed out that I was on him at times that didn't really matter

htaeD posted...

I suppose a flavormass might at least clear up the HP mess. But regardless I dont think its impossible for characters to come from the same source.

Two makes sense but three is pushing it. But so is "G, Town Villager" and somebody claiming Voldemort.

Camarija posted...

Corrik

I think both of your role claims can coexist

I'm not seeing why one means the other cannot exist

Because a BG can protect Chronomancer every night and a Chronomancer can protect BG every night, and then they can never die unless they're lynched (which won't happen in such a scenario) or a redirect/RB happens (which shouldn't be counted on because like in this game we've probably already eliminated all of that). That ain't fair to scum. This also extends to Doc and pretty much whatever else straight protection role+Chronomancer as claimed.

still catching up
---

oh there was only one more post on which up to catch

pezloco posted...

Camarija posted...

and ok

I'll tone down the best player ever as soon as Town stop randomly voting me whenever it's convenient for Mafia to do so

You claimed Voldemort. Even assuming that is your real flavor, and I do assume so. You shouldn't be surprised that you got some suspicion from that claim.

*Voldemort, TOWN Opera Singer

Was starting to doubt myself on the Lolo thing but Corrik is very right (whether he's telling the truth or not idk but hey)
---

I'll rephrase the red thing one more time: you were going after red for a personal issue, not for anything that pointed to him being scum. That ain't how we play mafia, whether or not you were "right." Both you personally (I imagine) and the town in-game would have been served by you calming down a bit and either stepping away or re-focusing on actual game-relevant things.

Hey pez last night I dreamed I was trying to write a report on John Cage and you kept distracting me
---

Ok as devils advocate.
If we lynch Lolo and he flips town. First we done goofed but on a much more serious note where would the next step be. Especially if hb is scum godfather and has the opposite flavour to cam

5tarscream posted...

Ok as devils advocate.
If we lynch Lolo and he flips town. First we done goofed but on a much more serious note where would the next step be. Especially if hb is scum godfather and has the opposite flavour to cam

Before we start lynching Lolo, let's wait for Corrik to come back. B8, and probably people in general, has a tendency to take hold of an idea and run with it. Corrik's description sounds super powerful. But it's still speculation. Until Corrik comes back, let's put Lolo on hold. I don't trust us to be able to separate speculation of meta from our reads on Lolo.
---

5tarscream posted...

Ok as devils advocate.
If we lynch Lolo and he flips town. First we done goofed but on a much more serious note where would the next step be. Especially if hb is scum godfather and has the opposite flavour to cam

I highly doubt that Han would give scum a godfather whose flavor immediately ties him to a town pseudo miller.
---

If Tom said he'd sheep Luis I actually kind of like him for town for it.

Mzero has fallen into a classic blunder. His fake bravado about not claiming was trying to emulate town stubborness, but he took it too far. Imagine a graph for refusing to claim, Mzero is way in the danger zone. If you remember from day two, The Lopen said that scum Red would probably delay claiming until the last hour so as to better cause last second havoc, whereas town red would claim so half the game wasn't distracted by him anymore. Obviously Red didn't do that after it was called out, but the strategy is still there, especially because Red got eviscerated for claiming when he did. I just can't fathom why Mzero wouldn't claim at -2, when he's a huge lynch candidate for the day. Extremely unhelpful to town. Even a doctor would say something here. It just doesn't make any kind of town logic sense that I can follow. In the interest of fairness I'll ask, Mzero why don't you feel the need to claim here if you're town? But I think it's already too late.

If Corrk, Cam and HB all didn't exist I'd still think Lolo was scum ftr

5tar, I think I misunderstood your post. I read it too quickly. Lolo's alignment does not change my opinion of Cam or HB.
---

Thats more what I was asking pez yeah.

So here comes my favourite question. Can you tell me 1 person whose read would be changed by both a town flip lolo and a scum flip lolo
This isnt just pez feel free to join in everyone

5tarscream posted...

Thats more what I was asking pez yeah.

So here comes my favourite question. Can you tell me 1 person whose read would be changed by both a town flip lolo and a scum flip lolo
This isnt just pez feel free to join in everyone

Lolo hasn't been around enough for me to have opinions on how he relates to others. I will say that I don't think MZero and Lea are scum together.
---

I think Corrik's role is made up, and that's fine, he can have his fun. But if Lolo is town it's suddenly a lot less fun and a lot more scummy. The dangerous thing about Corrik is he can always fall back on "Oh I was just bluffing to get X to admit they were lying". He'd look pretty good if Lolo is scum tho

pezloco posted...

5tarscream posted...

Thats more what I was asking pez yeah.

So here comes my favourite question. Can you tell me 1 person whose read would be changed by both a town flip lolo and a scum flip lolo
This isnt just pez feel free to join in everyone

Lolo hasn't been around enough for me to have opinions on how he relates to others. I will say that I don't think MZero and Lea are scum together.

Wow, you have the same opinion Cam, ACTUAL MAFIA GOD, had on day one. His magnificence shines upon us all.

Lolo is a good lynch even if Corrik misunderstood his role. If he didn't the stupidity in the interaction of those two roles is gravy.
---

Somehow I feel like after I get scanned to prove Im not lying half of you will still think Im Godfather
---

And I will remind the group again that its possible Corrik is lying about his role, too, and only just realized the implications of his ability.
---

Also if you want my theory, and why I think Corrik's role is somewhat irrelevant at the moment

Night 1. SK killed scare
Mafia Kill was outright prevented somehow
Han is a good host and doesn't have strongman in every damn game

Night 2. SK killed dowolf
Mafia Killed Chris

That seems more likely than stalling. Mafia killing dowolf seems extremely unlikely to me. Probably we have actual protection + corrik's thing, and there's no bodyguard at all.
---

Lopen posted...

Also if you want my theory, and why I think Corrik's role is somewhat irrelevant at the moment

Night 1. SK killed scare
Mafia Kill was outright prevented somehow
Han is a good host and doesn't have strongman in every damn game

Night 2. SK killed dowolf
Mafia Killed Chris

That seems more likely than stalling. Mafia killing dowolf seems extremely unlikely to me. Probably we have actual protection + corrik's thing, and there's no bodyguard at all.

Chris was pretty confident that Scare was a Red kill.
---

I know he was. I'm pretty confident he wasn't. Red isn't going to kill scare inheriting that slot night 1.
---

Like you can say Scare makes sense, and I would disagree with you greatly but you can make the argument.

But dowolf isn't a logical mafia kill either. SK definitely seems more likely considering both nights.
---

pezloco posted...

I'm not leaving my vote parked over night. I think I prefer SBell over MZero anyway.

@MZero11 One last question I hope you see. How do you feel your game is the same as WWE? How do you feel it's different?

I feel like I didn't really push anything in WWE mafia cause I got caught up with the fake track on Ulti and then I kind of just pushed puns after that, but not with the conviction of my SBell push

I was about the same activity-wise (just like every other game I've ever been in)
---

Dowolf is a confirmed town. He makes perfect sense as a town kill if they feared protection on the scanner and Chris was poisoned.
---

Lopen posted...

Like you can say Scare makes sense, and I would disagree with you greatly but you can make the argument.

But dowolf isn't a logical mafia kill either. SK definitely seems more likely considering both nights.

If you're arguing scum doesn't have a strongman or any form of extra kill, then there's no way they target Chris night 1. Without a strongman why would they save the obvious protection target? You're only explaining part of the game.

SK, could fit. But I don't think your explanation of mafia's motivations here make sense.
---

MZero11 posted...

pezloco posted...

I'm not leaving my vote parked over night. I think I prefer SBell over MZero anyway.

@MZero11 One last question I hope you see. How do you feel your game is the same as WWE? How do you feel it's different?

I feel like I didn't really push anything in WWE mafia cause I got caught up with the fake track on Ulti and then I kind of just pushed puns after that, but not with the conviction of my SBell push

I was about the same activity-wise (just like every other game I've ever been in)

I agree your activity is about the same. Why didn't you push Puns with the conviction you're pushing SBell?
---

Did we mKe any headway overnight?
---

Votals (as of post 340)
(4) SBell: Puns, MZero, (Ben), (Lea), (Lopen), (Tom), (Corrik), Cam, Corrik
(3) MZero: (Lea), (Ben), (5tar), (Ulti), (Lea), (Ben), (Ulti), (Pez), Ulti, Lea, (Corrik), Ben
(3) Lolo: (Corrik), (Tom), SBell, Tom, Lopen, (Lea)
(1) Lea: (Tom), Hb
(1) Tom: (Lopen), Cam
(1) Cam: (5tar), (Ulti), (SBell), (Tom), Lolo, (Corrik)
(0) Pez: (Ben), (Ulti)
(0) Lopen: (Corrik)
(0) Hb: (Corrik)
(0) Puns: (SBell)
(0) Ben: (Lopen)
(0) Hb: (Lopen)

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to reach a majority. Day will end on Wednesday, June 26th at 9PM EDT or if majority is reached ahead of time.

---

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Votals (as of post 326)
(4) MZero: (Lea), (Ben), (5tar), (Ulti), (Lea), (Ben), (Ulti), (Pez), Ulti, Lea, Corrik, Ben
(4) SBell: Puns, MZero, (Ben), (Lea), (Lopen), (Tom), (Corrik), Cam, Corrik
(3) Lolo: (Corrik), (Tom), SBell, Tom, Lopen, (Lea)
(1) Lea: (Tom), Hb
(1) Tom: (Lopen), Cam
(1) Cam: (5tar), (Ulti), (SBell), (Tom), Lolo, (Corrik)
(0) Pez: (Ben), (Ulti)
(0) Lopen: (Corrik)
(0) Hb: (Corrik)
(0) Puns: (SBell)
(0) Ben: (Lopen)
(0) Hb: (Lopen)

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to reach a majority. Day will end on Wednesday, June 26th at 9PM EDT or if majority is reached ahead of time.

@HanOfTheNekos you have Corrik voting two different people.
---

Why wouldnt they poison Chris n1?

Lea3Lea posted...

If Tom said he'd sheep Luis I actually kind of like him for town for it.

Mzero has fallen into a classic blunder. His fake bravado about not claiming was trying to emulate town stubborness, but he took it too far. Imagine a graph for refusing to claim, Mzero is way in the danger zone. If you remember from day two, The Lopen said that scum Red would probably delay claiming until the last hour so as to better cause last second havoc, whereas town red would claim so half the game wasn't distracted by him anymore. Obviously Red didn't do that after it was called out, but the strategy is still there, especially because Red got eviscerated for claiming when he did. I just can't fathom why Mzero wouldn't claim at -2, when he's a huge lynch candidate for the day. Extremely unhelpful to town. Even a doctor would say something here. It just doesn't make any kind of town logic sense that I can follow. In the interest of fairness I'll ask, Mzero why don't you feel the need to claim here if you're town? But I think it's already too late.

You're forgetting the part that ScuMZero loves fakeclaiming and would have done so by now! (this is wifom I know but please remember for future reference)

and I haven't claimed because I am unsatisfied with the reasoning behind my lynch and will not reward this poor play. Come up with some better reasons and I will claim. But it's mostly the same "hurr durr inactive" stuff I've been getting mislynched over for like 5 years
---

Sbell, I noticed earlier on in the game you had a kind of "oh you guys classic mislynching Sbell" attitude, but today you mentioned in a post you hadn't done anything of consequence this game. Seems kind of weird to be annoyed at people voting for you if you admit you kinda deserve it. It's all starting to feel manipulative.

Time to play the claim or die game?

pezloco posted...

If you're arguing scum doesn't have a strongman or any form of extra kill, then there's no way they target Chris night 1. Without a strongman why would they save the obvious protection target? You're only explaining part of the game.

Where did I say they targeted Chris night 1? I said their kill was prevented somehow.
---

pezloco posted...

I agree your activity is about the same. Why didn't you push Puns with the conviction you're pushing SBell?

I'm a lot more confident in my SBell read (which makes sense cause puns was town!)

I never really got a solid scum read in WWE mafia. I had some good town clears though (IGCD very early, 5tar, etc.)

Hell at the end it was more me deciding puns was town than deciding red was scum
---

Lopen posted...

pezloco posted...

If you're arguing scum doesn't have a strongman or any form of extra kill, then there's no way they target Chris night 1. Without a strongman why would they save the obvious protection target? You're only explaining part of the game.

Where did I say they targeted Chris night 1? I said their kill was prevented somehow.

I took prevented as in they targeted Chris and there was a doc save of some form.

What kind of prevented did you think?
---

MZero11 posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

If Tom said he'd sheep Luis I actually kind of like him for town for it.

Mzero has fallen into a classic blunder. His fake bravado about not claiming was trying to emulate town stubborness, but he took it too far. Imagine a graph for refusing to claim, Mzero is way in the danger zone. If you remember from day two, The Lopen said that scum Red would probably delay claiming until the last hour so as to better cause last second havoc, whereas town red would claim so half the game wasn't distracted by him anymore. Obviously Red didn't do that after it was called out, but the strategy is still there, especially because Red got eviscerated for claiming when he did. I just can't fathom why Mzero wouldn't claim at -2, when he's a huge lynch candidate for the day. Extremely unhelpful to town. Even a doctor would say something here. It just doesn't make any kind of town logic sense that I can follow. In the interest of fairness I'll ask, Mzero why don't you feel the need to claim here if you're town? But I think it's already too late.

You're forgetting the part that ScuMZero loves fakeclaiming and would have done so by now! (this is wifom I know but please remember for future reference)

and I haven't claimed because I am unsatisfied with the reasoning behind my lynch and will not reward this poor play. Come up with some better reasons and I will claim. But it's mostly the same "hurr durr inactive" stuff I've been getting mislynched over for like 5 years

1. It is EXTREMELY scummy to complain you're getting lynched for reasons that aren't good enough. There's no reason NOT to lynch you. The majority of the game wants to lynch you. Welcome to democracy! HOW CAN THERE BE BETTER REASONS TO VOTE YOU IF YOU'RE TOWN, HELLO????? ARE YOU READING THIS SPECTATORS?! With that logic why would town ever claim

2. There are dozens of posts not related to activity in anyway. YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME. YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME. YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME. YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME. YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME. YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME. YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME.

Choosing to focus on the weak activity argument instead of that is very scummy.

Lopen posted...

actual protection + corrik's thing

*doubt*

Lopen posted...

But dowolf isn't a logical mafia kill either.

He wasn't?
---

pezloco posted...

I took prevented as in they targeted Chris and there was a doc save of some form.

What kind of prevented did you think?

They targeted someone else and the doc had mad yomi?

They targeted a bulletproof?

Town roleblocker? How should I know.
---

I think I buy MZerod reaction to the votes more than SBell and they are both refusing to claim I believe. I voted Zero today to get more activity I think hes been a little more active but maybe Im just looking for it more.
However hes still lacking content for me. Like I couldnt tell you anything hes done except vote SBell and defend his lack of activity.
I feel like SBell has had more interactions and will provide more info as such. I feel like MZero is a wasted lynch I just wish hed do something.

And I completely agree with MZero's nonclaiming here. It doesn't seem inevitable to me. The argument on him is non-existent and applies to 1/4 the game, and applies to people with actual other good arguments on them (LOLO). You'll all get bored and scatter around to a bunch of targets when the going gets tough.
---

Lea3Lea posted...

1. It is EXTREMELY scummy to complain you're getting lynched for reasons that aren't good enough.

I dunno, I get annoyed when I get lynched for what I perceive are dumb reasons both as town and scum.
---

Tom Bombadil posted...

He wasn't?

Mafia doesn't shoot confirmed with no ability early. SK, particularly when town is ahead, cares more about those because they need to have anyone but them be the lynch target. Mafia would sooner be shooting at random targets that haven't claimed and are generally trusted in hopes that they hit a power role, or trying to play chicken with the doctor and shoot Chris/5tar.
---

Lea3Lea posted...

YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME.

wow you can type it in all caps and copy and paste it. good job. still not true but ok
---

MZero11 posted...

pezloco posted...

I agree your activity is about the same. Why didn't you push Puns with the conviction you're pushing SBell?

I'm a lot more confident in my SBell read (which makes sense cause puns was town!)

I never really got a solid scum read in WWE mafia. I had some good town clears though (IGCD very early, 5tar, etc.)

Hell at the end it was more me deciding puns was town than deciding red was scum

Yes hunting town is a good thing indeed. I was asking these questions because I had noticed you playing with more confidence. I was interested in how you would explain it. And if you would describe yourself that way at all. If you had said you played differently in some other way I might've immediately voted you.

5tar, what do you think of confident MZero?
---

Does Mzero really make you that mad Lea? It feels kinda forced to caps lock now.
---

MZero11 posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

YOUR READS DO NOT MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE ALL GAME.

wow you can type it in all caps and copy and paste it. good job. still not true but ok

Outstanding rebuttal. Truly top shelf. "not true". No real elaboration on why you can call Corrik and Chris, the best scum players "obvtown" day one. No clarification of why Eaed was your only scum read day one. Nothing on Sbell besides one post where he complained about Chris getting a conch, which is barely a reason at all.

Just "nuh uh".

htaeD posted...

Does Mzero really make you that mad Lea? It feels kinda forced to caps lock now.

I feel like I'm going crazy that people's opinion of him is just "idk mzero is always inactive seems fine"

htaeD posted...

Does Mzero really make you that mad Lea? It feels kinda forced to caps lock now.

I like this.
---

Lopen posted...

pezloco posted...

I took prevented as in they targeted Chris and there was a doc save of some form.

What kind of prevented did you think?

They targeted someone else and the doc had mad yomi?

They targeted a bulletproof?

Town roleblocker? How should I know.

Probably we have actual protection + corrik's thing

Those kinds of things fit better with BG than with Corrik's role yes? Anyway, you mentioned a conventional protection in your assessment. Or what I thought was. That's why I assumed you thought mafia targeted Chris N1.
---

I mean he was a non factor with regards to suspicion last game so I have nothing to judge it against. He claimed miller early then the scanners outed themselves d2 so there was no need to go after him from either side.
Like I said before this is maybe my 4th or 5th game ever so I dont have the backlog of reads and comparisons. I feel like neither of these two clowns has done much but I guess I like MZeros work more.
I honestly have no feeling about MZeros confidence though, I guess if anything he should have been more confident last game when he was basically never getting lunched or scum killed. So if I had to have a lean Id say its a negative but its next to nothing from me I dont know his gameplay enough.

pezloco posted...

Anyway, you mentioned a conventional protection in your assessment.

I think the doc having mad yomi was the most likely explanation yes.
---