Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 316: Goodyear in a Bad Year

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah its a requirement to be bright to avoid being murdered by police
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Fleeing also doesn't justify lethal force, nor did the cops make a single attempt to restrain or stop him through any other method, when they could have. They also entirely could have had no reason to have their guns drawn from what the video shows, there isn't anyone obviously armed or behaving violently.

In other news, more right wing endorsements for Biden!
https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141

GentlemanGamer posted...

Fleeing also doesn't justify lethal force, nor did the cops make a single attempt to restrain or stop him through any other method, when they could have. They also entirely could have had no reason to have their guns drawn from what the video shows, there isn't anyone obviously armed or behaving violently.

In other news, more right wing endorsements for Biden!
https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141

They told him to stop, tasered him, etc according to what I have read.

He also cannot just leave the scene. He has warrants for his arrest. You don't have an option to just leave.

"According to Wisconsin Circuit Court Access online records, a Jacob S. Blake, same age and with an address in the same block where the shooting occurred, had a warrant issued for him on July 7 on pending accusations of misdemeanor criminal trespass to a dwelling with domestic abuse as a modifier; felony third-degree sexual assault with domestic abuse as a modifier; and misdemeanor disorderly conduct with domestic abuse as a modifier. A support action was dismissed, and the only other case that comes up is for not having a drivers license."

That said, the discrepency seems to be whether he had a knife or not. Idk. Wait to see what the investigation unveils.

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The victim's body language didn't at any point suggest he was a threat, or even that he was making a break a for it. It looked like he was thinking "these assholes won't stop fucking with me, so sick of this shit"

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

The victim's body language didn't at any point suggest he was a threat, or even that he was making a break a for it. It looked like he was thinking "these assholes won't stop fucking with me, so sick of this shit"

I could see the "these mother fuckers are trying to arrest me for my warrants" thinking perhaps going through his mind. They have to arrest him though when he has warrants out for his arrest. It's not an option


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Do other countries dispense the death penalty for trying to run from misdemeanor charges?

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There were multiple cops there. They could have arrested him. Also, I'd be shocked if he was actually tasered, as the video of his shooting shows him walking around freely. How often do cops taser someone and then let them walk around?

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Corrik7 posted...

I could see the "these mother fuckers are trying to arrest me for my warrants" thinking perhaps going through his mind. They have to arrest him though when he has warrants out for his arrest. It's not an option

emptying your entire magazine into someone's back is not 'arresting them'

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red sox 777 posted...

Do other countries dispense the death penalty for trying to run from misdemeanor charges?

Idk. Does any country? The situation of course is never how it is painted, which is why it's best to wait for an investigation.

You have a person with a record of assaulting a police in the past. Who has threatened to use guns against people in the past with an active arrest warrant (including a felony). Going towards a car when being ordered to stop.

Now, was there justification to shoot. I don't know. The question becomes on what his intent was, if there was actually a knife, etc. The video seems to indicate no there was not a reason to shoot, but it's also video that does not show all the context. Body cams hopefully were worn so we can see the full story and make an accurate decision on what was appropriate.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

There were multiple cops there. They could have arrested him. Also, I'd be shocked if he was actually tasered, as the video of his shooting shows him walking around freely. How often do cops taser someone and then let them walk around?

The people who viewed what happened acknowledged he was tasered.

According to the Kenosha News, neighbors said police tasered and then shot a man several times.

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Corrik7 posted...

Idk. Does any country? The situation of course is never how it is painted, which is why it's best to wait for an investigation.

George Floyd?
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Although at least this guy hasnt died yet.

Hopefully he can recover and testify against the police, unlike so many of their victims
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Jakyl25 posted...

George Floyd?

What about George Floyd

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That situation was in line with how it was painted
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Jakyl25 posted...

That situation was in line with how it was painted

For the most part. It left out key details, but the details ended up being extraneous to what happened. It wasn't a racism incident as it was painted though.

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Okay, I know Ill never shake you of that belief given your rudimentary understanding of racial bias so I guess this is the end of that
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Jakyl25 posted...

Okay, I know Ill never shake you of that belief given your rudimentary understanding of racial bias so I guess this is the end of that

At no point was racist bias ever shown in the incident. A man sitting in a vehicle under the influence of drugs and alcohol was attempted to be detained. He said he couldn't sit in the police vehicle while being detained due to being "claustrophobic". Resisted. Was put to the ground. Then when put the ground the police officer continued to keep his neck pinned down even as the man no longer resisted for a long period of time that was not reasonable. Causing distress to the person until they likely had cardiac arrest and/or asphyxiation.

Wtf does that have to do with race? Everything has a logical step to how you go to the next step without race having any matter in it until you get to the negligence which is the crime.

They were called to the scene. They didn't pick him out. They had visible reason to detain him due to his state in the car. They had reason to pin him down due to his resisting. He didn't have reason to continue pinning him after he stopped resisting and became unresponsive, which is why it is a crime due to his negligence.

Race isn't applicable.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Okay, I know Ill never shake you of that belief given your rudimentary understanding of racial bias so I guess this is the end of that

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Race is applied in the way they would deal with this versus how they would deal with someone who was white. The implication is that he used more force than necessary because he was black, which I think is a very real possibility because he sat on the man's neck for entirely too long and I think it's reasonable to say that he wouldn't do so were he white.

Of course, we don't know that for sure, but we do see them seemingly using more force than necessary against African Americans.

All of that said, I don't think the issue with the police is so much of a systemic racism problem so much as systemic racism is a part of the issue with police. In everything you just described, it never should have gotten to that point regardless of race. A man shouldn't be taking seven bullets in the back, even if he is disregarding police instructions, he should be subdued before that point.

I think you'll find I try to be more "understanding" of the situations a lot of cops are in than most on this board, mostly because I get the dangers on their job and why they react with so much force sometimes. I don't agree with it every time, but I understand the situations they're in.

But there is, without a doubt, a serious issue in these cops being trained, and an even bigger issue with these cops being able to constantly do the wrong shit, never learn, and the union getting them off scott free. Police reform is more than necessary and the issues above are why I feel like systemic racism is only a part of the major issue at hand. And system racism doesn't get fixed until they can actually be suitably punished for reacting based on race, which their union won't allow. Once they can actually be punished for it, they'll fucking stop. But if they can get away with it, of course they won't change. They have no reason to.

Basically, fuck police unions. We shouldn't be paying for them. They're a disaster and the reason cops can continue on unpunished the way they do.

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Oh absolutely the issues with police reform go far beyond just race
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Biscuit do you think there is an appetite from people higher up in the chain for reform?

Like even if the unions allowed it, arent the people in charge of the police mostly ex-cops themselves?
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GentlemanGamer posted...

In other news, more right wing endorsements for Biden!
https://www.newsweek.com/richard-spencer-joe-biden-trump-maga-1527141

And it was unequivocally rejected:

https://www.newsweek.com/biden-campaign-rejects-richard-spencer-endorsement-condemns-views-absolutely-repugnant-1527230

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fun fact you should never take richard spencer at his word for anything

it's like with red sox, the dude's already openly stated it's his mission to make Trump's racism look more reasonable to nudge the overton window his way

he's the open white nationalist that knows people hate him and uses that

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Jakyl25 posted...

Biscuit do you think there is an appetite from people higher up in the chain for reform?

Like even if the unions allowed it, arent the people in charge of the police mostly ex-cops themselves?

I can't say for certain, but I can make educated guesses.

Judging by what I know about cops, firefighters, etc., and judging by how much of a 'boy's club' it is, I would doubt that a lot of them want reform. They consider those below them a part of the boys, and the boys look out for each other. In a lot of corrupt police stations, people don't speak out because then they're a snitch, they'll get targeted and more or less forced out of the force. And that's why it's hard to be a 'good' cop because if you speak up, you're more or less on track to lose your job.

So no, I don't think a lot of them really want reform. But obviously, this depends on the specific precinct, etc. we're talking about, as a lot are less corrupt than others and legitimately want to do good.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Of course, we don't know that for sure, but we do see them seemingly using more force than necessary against African Americans.

Or do you just see that on the news moreso. The statistics don't really back up this as true when applied. We see more of it on the news though and more of a backlash. Of course this is a self-fulfilling cycle also. The more you say it happens, the more resistance happens that leads to more of it.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

But there is, without a doubt, a serious issue in these cops being trained, and an even bigger issue with these cops being able to constantly do the wrong shit, never learn, and the union getting them off scott free. Police reform is more than necessary and the issues above are why I feel like systemic racism is only a part of the major issue at hand. And system racism doesn't get fixed until they can actually be suitably punished for reacting based on race, which their union won't allow. Once they can actually be punished for it, they'll fucking stop. But if they can get away with it, of course they won't change. They have no reason to.

Basically, fuck police unions. We shouldn't be paying for them. They're a disaster and the reason cops can continue on unpunished the way they do.

This is basically all unions. Are you pro-union? Because this comment doesn't really jive with supporting them.

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Corrik7 posted...

Or do you just see that on the news moreso. The statistics don't really back up this as true when applied. We see more of it on the news though and more of a backlash. Of course this is a self-fulfilling cycle also. The more you say it happens, the more resistance happens that leads to more of it.

I'm sure your statistics also don't include simple dealings with the cops that don't include police brutality. Issues where they're treated differently due to the color of their skin. The media is supremely unfair about it, I'll grant you that, and I find it impossible to legitimately watch the news because the spin is always there, but I don't take any claims seriously that systemic racism with some cops exists.

Corrik7 posted...

This is basically all unions. Are you pro-union? Because this comment doesn't really jive with supporting them.

I'm not for a union that we pay for that actively works against the people to support a force that keeps them from getting in trouble when they actively harm us with shitty enforcement and keep them from improving.

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Damn if Nikki isn't out first female president then our country has failed for real. She is so amazing.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I'm not for a union that we pay for that actively works against the people to support a force that keeps them from getting in trouble when they actively harm us with shitty enforcement and keep them from improving.

So your only problem with police unions is that the community pays their wages in which they then use those wages for union dues?

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Grimlyn posted...

fun fact you should never take richard spencer at his word for anything

it's like with red sox, the dude's already openly stated it's his mission to make Trump's racism look more reasonable to nudge the overton window his way

he's the open white nationalist that knows people hate him and uses that

Um, what? I hope you're talking about Richard Spencer, not me.

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I agree with most all of what Eric said besides the you can have it part, but man does he talk like a ww2 dictator with his force and hand movements lol

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red sox 777 posted...

Um, what? I hope you're talking about Richard Spencer, not me.

I interpreted that post as the top statement meaning to apply to you, but not the stuff about racism or white nationalism.
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https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1298080841998925824

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https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/1298079050162999296

Gross

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That Tim Scott claim was weird til I processed it. He said he was the first African American elected to the house and the Senate. Took me awhile to process he meant both. I am actually surprised if that is true. That said, he hit Biden hard on some race things.


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While you can criticize Biden on race, it's very hard to take seriously from anyone who's supporting Donald Trump.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

While you can criticize Biden on race, it's very hard to take seriously from anyone who's supporting Donald Trump.

He did a good job making a case in his speech. ABC seems to agree it was a good speech. I thought parts were a bit janky and he could have done better explaining the tax cuts to the rich the Dems want with the SALT tax cuts, but he made a good case.

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Biden announced that if you make under 400k, your taxes won't go up. So yeah, once again, Democrats are targeting that 150k-400k income group.

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Corrik7 posted...

Damn if Nikki isn't out first female president then our country has failed for real. She is so amazing.

uh if youre voting for Biden/Harris you are practically voting for Kamala as our first woman Prez

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Nikki Haley is brown and a woman.

lol if you think she has even the faintest chance at winning the Republican primary in a party that thought Donald Trump was their best option.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

uh if youre voting for Biden/Harris you are practically voting for Kamala as our first woman Prez

Talking about doing it on her own and being elected.

"FreshYoungDoggo
Today at 12:01
Hit more cops with bricks, at this point people got to fight back. Burn the police stations and make those pigs scared."

It is literally such a detached and deranged line of thought. Very violent and a scary mentality.

(This is regarding the cop that got smashed with a brick in the face and immediately went limp to the ground).


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CaptainOfCrush posted...

There were multiple cops there. They could have arrested him. Also, I'd be shocked if he was actually tasered, as the video of his shooting shows him walking around freely. How often do cops taser someone and then let them walk around?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8660213/Video-shows-Jacob-Blake-brawling-cops-shot-Wisconsin-cops-placed-leave.html

Some additional context with an alternate side view of the moments leading up to his walking around the side of the car.


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So far we have had a cop knocked unconscious with a brick and cheered at his lying prone on the ground. Burning of cars, dump trucks, probation office, corrections facility, possibly the courthouse, people's homes, looting, people with guns attacking businesses and people showing up with guns to protect their businesses, etc.

Yep.

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Grimlyn posted...

https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1298080841998925824

This post was exactly what I needed tonight and I didnt even know it beforehand.

Corrik7 posted...

That Tim Scott claim was weird til I processed it. He said he was the first African American elected to the house and the Senate. Took me awhile to process he meant both. I am actually surprised if that is true. That said, he hit Biden hard on some race things.

Why would that surprise you to be true? There have only been 10 black Senators ever
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And doing the research, I see that only 6 were elected, and 2 were after Scott was

So hes the 4th black person to ever be elected to a Senate seat period
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Corrik7 posted...

I agree with most all of what Eric said besides the you can have it part, but man does he talk like a ww2 dictator with his force and hand movements lol

Also I think you have the wrong TrumpSon
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Jakyl25 posted...

Why would that surprise you to be true? There have only been 10 black Senators ever

Also surprised that an African American democrat spoke at the rnc too.

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Corrik7 posted...

Also surprised that an African American democrat spoke at the rnc too.

As someone that lives in the Atlanta area, I wouldn't put much stock in this. He's long been a pariah within his own party here, and was 100% going to get primaried out of his position this year before announcing he wouldn't run. And prior to the former Atlanta mayor, he was pretty much the poster child of local political corruption.

Pretty sure Republicans hated him too, at least until he was elected to the state house. Then they could tout him as that black Democrat that almost always votes with Republicans. Which, I assume, is why they asked him to speak at the RNC, despite everything. But even then I'm pretty sure Republicans here still don't like him.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/1298079050162999296

Gross

This needs additional understanding of how Turkey operates to make sense.

Ive seen people call Erdogan an autocrat or a dictator like Un or Lukashenko. He is not. He doesnt, for instance, have a majority in the Turkish parliament and most of the major provinces are now ruled by the opposition including Istanbul and Ankara, both happening as recently as last year. He is still operating in a broadly democratic system (Turkey is considered a hybrid regime not an authoritarian or truly democratic one). Does that mean he cant be called a dictator? No, because he:

-Actively tries to subvert or question democracy to favour himself.
-Has diverted power to the executive from the representatives.
-Stacks the supreme court (and other independent state bodies) with people favourable to him.

Among other things. Remind you of anyone?

This is why Trump likes Erdogan. Because Trump *is* Erdogan. Or rather Erdogan is Trump. Before the likes of Orban, Erdogan was the first of the new populist tinpot dictator-lites that Trump drew inspiration from. Erdogan can absolutely be called a dictator as he subverts democracy in his own interest (though he is not all powerful and is elected), and so can Trump. If Erdogan is a dictator so is Trump, and frankly Im fine with that definition.

I will just say as a way of removing bias, when you see headlines about what Trump is trying to do in the election, try replacing Trump with Erdogan and USA with Turkey. Yeah, its messed up.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298133300779741184

What a joke. Bunch of criminals. The left keeps paying them lip service while they destroy communities. These rioters are not even from Kenosha by most accounts.

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