Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 7: I am not a merry man.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Chaeix posted...

all two dead and one claimed?

are you also claiming vanilla

Yep. No one wanted to take me up on the STP. Cadet Sylvia Tilly at your service. This is especially why I doubt Wesley, because "literal who?" doesn't even begin to describe her.

Problem is I find Wallz more suspicious than BCT, and BCT pulled a classic "it ain't me peace out see you forever" on getting one vote. Dumey has the Neighbor claim that I'd like Lea to confirm (though it'd be hilarious if Dumey neighbored scum, even if Lea hasn't hit that at all for me this go around, and also hilarious if it's a scum/scum pairing.)

##unvote
##vote: wallmasterz

EDumey posted...

5AM Post Go!

This reads very nervous to me. Sure, I mixed up the name when I was going back and forth with BCT. But for you to bring up the idea that you don't think I read D2 very well like four times because I mixed up a name is a little bit condescending, don't you think? Why are you so nervous?
It sounds like you had no idea why Sheep was lynched, and just voted him because people you see as established town was voting him.
This is kind of a textbook bandwagon.
Wallz I'm not saying you're the "face" of the Sheep lynch. The reason (which I stated before as well) I think you look the worst on the Sheep lynch is because I think you just put yourself on that train and sat and let Town lynch itself. Others on that lynch have reasons why they wanted to vote Sheep. You jumped onto the wagon with

Your previous posts to that are all just jokes with the gang as well, nothing to point to as a catalyst for this vote. It just looks like you jumped on at an opportune time.

I'm very not confused Wallz. Please don't hide behind this veneer of "maybe you should re-read?"

So you didnt like me saying we might as well get the show on the road? If thats what ends up getting me mislynched then so be it but no I dont feel bad for saying that lol. The latter part of d2 absolutely dragged. A handful of folks werent active at all, and a (in-hindsight) sheep-saving special seemed extremely unlikely.

You mentioned your approach to d3 involved thinking crescent was sus/scum, possibly in part because she had the same attitude. She verbalized wishing d2 ended in 24 irl hours with an isquen lynch. You were wrong about crescent and it means nothing coming from me obviously, but youre wrong about me as well. If you are town :) which you probably are because I dont see you making a claim Lea could demolish in 60 seconds.

if you felt I was condescending, I apologize. the premise of your initial question only made sense after you quoted the post where I vote for sheep. When you said my vote looked the worst I interpreted that as me voting for sheep looked the worst not my literal vote post. Im not the only one who found this confusing, look at BCTs initial reaction (BCT is a different can of worms but my point still stands).

on d1 I left my vote on sheep longer than anyone after the initial suspicion towards him died down. I had my own reasons for voting sheep, and i wasnt totally convinced he was scum but I wasnt 100% convinced anyone was at any point in this game, and either way I thought his flip would give some really good info. Not to mention sheep sort of hung his head and accepted his lynch without even attempting a compelling effort to convince town of his innocence. I think it was crescent who said sheep seemed like scum content with their fate and I agreed with that.

Look, Im not trying to be a jerk. I do think your initial post where you said my vote looked the worst and asked me to answer your question wasnt the clearest. Between you using the wrong name to BCT and it seeming like you were grasping at straws at first glance, yeah it seemed like you mightve been confused and I was annoyed to be tasked with summarizing the sheep lynch when I didnt see why my vote was different than anyone else. Sorry if I had an attitude as a result.

i dont see how you think Im hiding, though. I made a good faith effort to answer your question despite not understanding why you were singling me out and then said Id be happy to give you more details if you want. Whether youre town hunting as town, scum hunting as town or trying to set up a mislynch as scum, its early d3 and Im here to answer any question you may wish to ask, regardless of how out of the blue it may seem.

Isquen posted...

BCT pulled a classic "it ain't me peace out see you forever" on getting one vote.

Didn't I have two or three votes? Read the game, please. Felt like three, anyway, because Dumey.

But yeah, Isquen has gotta be scum; if he isn't, then he's just very confused town. Wallz also claiming vanilla is raising an eyebrow - maybe I need to ISO him. Would there be five Vanillagers in a game of 14? That would be the maximum, probably. I'm one of the honest ones. My flip will prove it. I'm at peace with it.

And to meta the flavor some more, if I were scum and wanted to create a bogus flavor, would I really pick Wil Wheaton for Town Vanilla, or would I look into someone less known? I don't think a scum Chris would have let scum get away with a fake claim like that, ergo I'm not scum.

Sultan, however, looks by far the worst right now. He's projecting his insecurities onto me and I hope we find his teammates. He does not feel like a town Sultan since town Sultan would be less reserved in his stubbornness.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I fucked up. Can we drop this and actually try to find scum? Please?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Sultan, however, looks by far the worst right now. He's projecting his insecurities onto me and I hope we find his teammates. He does not feel like a town Sultan since town Sultan would be less reserved in his stubbornness

But you litterally agreed with me and JC why the scan is a good thing but are still being weird about being scanned yet i look the worst for calling out this? Idk if my brain can handle a full day of this.

Lea is right.
Now I can't unsee it

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/4/AAZlIpAAERS2.jpg

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

But you litterally agreed with me and JC why the scan is a good thing but are still being weird about being scanned yet i look the worst for calling out this? Idk if my brain can handle a full day of this.

You still have a vote on me for no reason, then. That's my issue. You're not doing anything helpful to town.

Also, is it possible that Lea and Dumey are scum together? Who else has Dumey neighbourized?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

You still have a vote on me for no reason, then. That's my issue. You're not doing anything helpful to town.

Also, is it possible that Lea and Dumey are scum together? Who else has Dumey neighbourized?

You think I have no reason for my vote we have been on this Merry go round since yesterday

Didn't he say it was one use? Let me look back to his claim

EDumey posted...

My role works a little bit different than the one I got two games ago. My neighborizer is not between two other players, I got to choose one person to open a communication with me for the rest of the game.

Come on BCT atleast read the claim.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Didn't he say it was one use? Let me look back to his claim

Oh. Missed that part, my bad. Probably because I'm tuning Dumey out since I don't think he has anything of value to say.

Still doesn't remove the possibility that he's scum and trying to clear himself and a teammate, though. In fact, that's plausible.

But that post makes you look better, because you're actually trying to do something instead of sitting there fixated on anti-town behavior. We've been through this before. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole again. I'm town and if you are as well, let's solve this shit together.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Come on BCT atleast read the claim.

Yeah, that was on me. Thanks.

Sunday Morning Special Votals:
[2] BCT - Sultan, Dumey, (Isquen)
[1] Dumey - (Ulti), BCT
[1] Isquen - Ulti
[1] Wallz - Isquen
[0] Ulti - (Isquen)

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day ends Monday March 13th at 8pm.

I'll say this BCT I have been still looking at other options I am not going to make that mistake again..

JC still pinging me and I'm pretty sure he is legit the role he is saying he is. Bus driver is somewhere out here beacuse JC going to Ulti is super odd. Unless JC is making things up but that seems rather unlikely.

Ulti did not save Creasent so that is also odd but Ulti already explained that it could be a unstoppable kill so I don't think that makes Ulti look any worse.

Ctes has been flying under the radar but I think if he is scum and killed Death he just stays quiet. I'd say probably town but if we need to reevaluate POE maybe clearing him to soon is detrimental. Ctes is a clever one.

Dumey could be a scum neighborizer we have seen those before.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Dumey could be a scum neighborizer we have seen those before.

Or he and Lea are just scum together. That is where I'm starting to lean, honestly. What has Lea done to get most people to think she's town? I can't put my finger on it.

I agree with the rest of your reads. I no longer think JC is scum since he's certainly entertaining pro-town possibilities.

It's a possibility that Isquen is just posting what the scum chat is feeding him. He's not making any sense and his votes are all over the place. Feels like he's who scum wants to bus right now if they can't mislynch me.

Alternatively, Isquen is a mislynch target, and someone like Wallz is the final scum. I don't see Isquen as paired with anyone so if the last scum is not him, then I dunno.

I think lynching Dumey tells us the most, honestly.

Also, where's Han?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

This is total nonsense. Excuse me for trying to solve the game, something YOU are not doing.

Yeah, Lea/Dumey. 100%

You know what, screw this. I was right to say Wesley is the perfect role for me because nobody's going to listen to me, just like with him.

I'm out. GG scum.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Have some class, scum. Geez.

And yes, Lea, that was 100% a scum claim and I want everyone to know it.

Byeeeeeeee

BlueCrystalTear posted...

And yes, Lea, that was 100% a scum claim and I want everyone to know it.

Byeeeeeeee

Lay it out... I know you can do it. This defeatist attitude isn't helping make us think you're town.

Pick 1 read and lay it out. I have seen you do this before. Right now you're throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. It's not towny it looks like flailing scum that is all.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Pick 1 read and lay it out.

That's exactly what I'm doing! I am not flailing and have no idea where you're getting that from. The neighbourizer bit has gotten me to stick to this: Dumey/Lea.

I don't know where that accusation came from but I'm VERY focused on this right now. The neighbourizer claim is an attempt to clear them both when I can't think of anything pro-town either has done. Dumey is the one flailing to see what sticks, and it pisses me off that him going after me for no reason is basically being glossed over. He's tried to take someone who almost everyone was sure was town for most of the game and backed me into a corner. How does nobody see this?

I've already accepted that scum has beaten us this game and my mislynch will probably lock it for them.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Ah, so you admit you knew he was scum and bussed him, then?

I'll entertain this. Let me take a look at dumey. I know he was looked at heavily yesterday by a few people.

I still think Lea looks pretty convincingly town.

BUT Dumey also picking Lea as scum makes alot of sense, pick the person who looks the most town and convince them YOU are town.

Is this part of your argument? I haven't seen this just that Lea and Dumey are connected and duh they are neighbors

BUT YOURE SAYING THEY ARE NEIGHBORS therefore they both must be scum.

I don't think that is how this works unless you think they planned this....

Which if they did that's very risky as scum to do I don't think they do this. Possible one is scum but both I don't know about that

Hey Isquen - you're claiming Bus Driver, correct?

Now that I'm caught up, I see that Isquen did not claim Bus Driver.

So here's the deal - if nobody claims Bus Driver (it's not me Scum, I'm not Bus Driver) then the game is probably solved with JC/Ctes as Scum.

If Town does have a Bus Driver... I haven't thought this one through all the way yet.

I mean, I thought Crescent was protection. Her refusal to claim a target indicated she was protection. Then, when I pressed her on JC, or before I did, she gave an answer that implied she was Cop who scanned him - I asked for clarification and she gave an answer that refuted that read and I got confused.

Either way, I thought Ulti's claim of Doc was a lie and Crescent was just picking up what he was putting down.

That not being true, we're stuck in a Bus Driver requirement for actions to make sense atm.

In the interest of stomping down any "vanilla is some no-name", I am vanilla and most everyone knows who Commander Riker is, so let's shut up any of that flavor meta.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Id like to hear Hans thoughts about Dumey since he was also spoken with.

I'm inclined to buy it but I want to sit on it a bit further to really let it marinate.

Hmph. If true, Han, I'll concede to the "shut up about flavor meta," but between Wall pinging little red flags throughout the game and BCT's defensive playbook of pulling a Cartman, I'm at a loss of which one first, but it's 50 50.

I work in a bit and have D&D tonight, so activity will be... well, normal for me? Until later tonight. Will be attempting to keep up if work is dead (and since it snowed overnight, I think it will be, but Sundays are weird here)

I have had a sick headache all day but it's finally starting to go away so I will try to catch up now

Did Sultan and Wall claim?

My headache got worse from reading so far. (I'm not stopping, I'm just not liking what I'm seeing).

Does anyone think it's clear who Crescent targeted N1?

I tried to walk through the idea of JC faking his claim at the start of the day, but I don't think I came to the same conclusion as you, Han.
I think you're saying that the scum motive for JC would be that he has to scan the only claimed Vanilla or he gets lynched, and (assuming BCT is town in this scenario) he doesn't want to soft confirm BCT as no movement because they want to keep that option open to lynch. Therefore Scum Bus Driver to the doctor that he knows will "move" every night means he can safely claim an action without being wrong for his fake claim. This seems like it necessitates BCT being town, otherwise JC would be fine in soft confirming a buddy as non-moving. Obviously I don't think that's the case right now, so I'm not sure I agree.
How does the existence of a Bus Driver implicate Ctes though? A Scum Bus Driver doesn't explain Death getting killed N1, so Ctes' Vig claim still holds water, no? A Town Bus Driver would be the one that implicates Ctes.
And a Town Bus Driver swapping Ulti and BCT would make sense in JC's case, and seem to paint JC as being truthful. So I could see the existence of Bus Driver making one of the two looking bad, but I don't think I'm understanding how you've linked them together.

I wish I was Neighborizer like that, I would have picked Lea minutes into day 1.

But yeah, it's the most logical choice by the end of the day.

Let's see

JC says lazy Tracker
Crescent says Cop that leaves trails.
Ulti says bulletproof doctor
Dumey says neighborizer
Ctes is vig
Sheep is confirmed vanilla
Death is confirmed vanilla
Lea says vanilla
BCT says vanilla
Han says vanilla
Wall says vanilla
Isquen says vanilla
Sultan has said nothing as far as I'm concerned

Chris is confirmed hammerer/double voter

Han my dear mason friend, how do you look at everything said and done and land on the scum teams being two non-vanillas. You're gonna have to walk me through this line of thought.

EDumey posted...

How does the existence of a Bus Driver implicate Ctes though? A Scum Bus Driver doesn't explain Death getting killed N1, so Ctes' Vig claim still holds water, no? A Town Bus Driver would be the one that implicates Ctes.

My thoughts were all mixed up and I was still waking up.

Ctes claiming a shot on Death isn't inherently linked to Scum trying to claim a Bus Driver... I mean, it could be, in that a Bus Driver would explain where the Scum shot went if it got directed at a doc save/BP claim.
A Town Bus Driver implicating Ctes makes no sense either - because then Ctes couldn't have claimed to shoot Death directly. A Town Bus Driver would prove that wrong with their claim.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Han my dear mason friend, how do you look at everything said and done and land on the scum teams being two non-vanillas. You're gonna have to walk me through this line of thought.

Do Scum have both an unblockable and an ability that bypasses protection?

I think I was also being inherently suspicious of you Ctes because you didn't have me on your Townlist.

But Ulti claiming a Doc save on Crescent that didn't work and JC claiming to be redirected are two claims at odds with each other.

If Scum used their ability to redirect Ulti's claimed save elsewhere, it's how they killed Crescent. It would mean that JC is lying about being redirected.

But if JC is not lying, then Ulti's claim stops holding water (which, I mean, I never really thought it did).

Serious question.

Do we think scum BD is a consistent-use role or a limited-use role (like a mafia Jack)? I was thinking it was more likely to be every night given that we havent seen someone get RBd.

But if scum has BD, why didnt they use it to make sure their N1 kill went through?

Like why not shoot a different target, and swap them with Crescent to mitigate a doc save?

This is not meant to throw shade at Ulti specifically because I dont think throwing shade at uncountered doc is remotely constructive, but its making me wonder - was Crescent really shot at?

Because the alternative is that they shot at Ulti and Ulti is BP. But scum wouldnt waste their unblockable kill on Crescent if they had shot Ulti and knew he was BP.

I just cant figure out why Crescent wouldnt have been swapped if they had a BD N1.

Like, I stayed shut up yesterday because I thought Ulti was covering for Crescent, but there's no point in doing that anymore.

Ulti is not BP Doctor. If that were true, he'd have been killed by a suggested unblockable kill last night. I think it's more likely that he is Doctor and Scum just have a bypass, be it BD, Redirector, or they placed a nexus on Ulti and he drew all night actions except for the kill. It's also possible he's Scum in this instance.

It would take something like a Nexus-maker ability to make both Ulti and JC Town, though? I think?

wallmasterz posted...

i dont see how you think Im hiding, though. I made a good faith effort to answer your question despite not understanding why you were singling me out and then said Id be happy to give you more details if you want. Whether youre town hunting as town, scum hunting as town or trying to set up a mislynch as scum, its early d3 and Im here to answer any question you may wish to ask, regardless of how out of the blue it may seem.

Hello Wallz. I do want to be clear when I say I am looking into you largely because of PoE. While I am looking back at JC and Ctes as well now because of what Han has brought forth, I can pretty clearly bring PoE down to just 3-5 people. I'm not sure if it's because of the argument from BCT, but I just don't like the framing of "trying to set up a mislynch". Look at this from my perspective. I have narrowed down who scum could be to just a small selection of people, including yourself. So I am going to examine your actions and motivations behind those actions more closely to see if I can find scum motive. When I do find things, I am going to question and pressure those things to see how you react. Would you agree from a non-biased perspective, that this is kind of how scum hunting works?

I think we are still not quite on the same page when it comes to your Sheep vote. I AM saying that you voting for Sheep looked the worst, not just the explicit content of your vote post.

Let's look at the votals again.
[7] Sheep - Han, Lea, (Ulti), (BCT), (Sultan), (Wallz), Wallz, Ulti, Sultan, JC, Isquen
Han had explicit reasons for voting Sheep. Lea had explicit reasons for voting Sheep. BCT unvoted earlier on to chase other rabbit holes. You voted because I guess if I'm being charitable, you didn't like that Sheep wasn't defending himself very well or in a town fashion. Ulti is as close to confirmed town as we can get. Sultan had reasons for voting Sheep, though granted I don't think they're as strong, but Sultan has other things going in his favor outside of this context. JC has a claim that we're currently evaluating. And Isquen is also likely scum due to PoE and made a bad unnecessary hammer before day ended naturally.
If it makes you feel better, I will amend my statement to say that Isquen's vote looks worse than yours. But your vote is clearly the other one that stands out as "why is that there?"

Let me frame this another way. There were 11 people alive that could vote for Sheep there. There is most likely 3 scum remaining. We know that one of the votes that wasn't on Sheep was Crescent, who flipped town. Either ALL THREE PEOPLE who did not vote Sheep (Dumey, Ctes, BCT) are scum, or there is at LEAST one scum more likely two, on the Sheep lynch. My PoE leads me to think that is Wallz and Isquen.

I apologize if my meandering thought process is hard to follow, I really do. But hopefully that clarifies why I am looking at your Sheep vote with extra scrutiny, because I don't think you had a genuine reason to believe Sheep to be scum, and even with your second clarification, you did not bring up any of the reasons why players like Han, Lea, or Crescent were pushing Sheep, just the thought that strong town players were on Sheep, so you should be too.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Like, I stayed shut up yesterday because I thought Ulti was covering for Crescent, but there's no point in doing that anymore.

Ulti is not BP Doctor. If that were true, he'd have been killed by a suggested unblockable kill last night. I think it's more likely that he is Doctor and Scum just have a bypass, be it BD, Redirector, or they placed a nexus on Ulti and he drew all night actions except for the kill. It's also possible he's Scum in this instance.

It would take something like a Nexus-maker ability to make both Ulti and JC Town, though? I think?

Or Chris saw that my scan would inevitably end up on BCT and they swapped him with Ulti to create exactly this kind of doubt?

It makes sense if scum doesnt believe Ulti is BP.

I don't really want to dive into Crescent right now because I'm lazy, but my only read was that she confirmed she didn't scan JC n1.

She considered her scan more useless which would imply she scanned Death over anyone. Though it's possible there's some other reading between the lines that hints a different result.

Chaeix posted...

Or Chris saw that my scan would inevitably end up on BCT and they swapped him with Ulti to create exactly this kind of doubt?

It makes sense if scum doesnt believe Ulti is BP.

It doesn't make sense if Scum believes Ulti is Doctor, as your claim implies he is.

Hi general gameplay question.

Would a doctor be told that their save was moved? I know but thats because I have a scan.

Like say Ulti saved Crescent N1 because scum was trying to kill someone else through BDing crescent with them.

Would Ulti ever be told that his save got redirected?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It doesn't make sense if Scum believes Ulti is Doctor, as your claim implies he is.

Why not?

If they have an unblockable kill, dont have an RB, and dont believe Ulti is BP, wouldnt Crescent be the obvious target, then Ulti?

I am pretty sure it's standard for Doctor to just be told if there action went through successfully or not. It doesn't even confirm whether or not they were saved, just that the action wasn't roleblocked.