Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 274: Rebuttigieg

(+) Yeah! (+)

HashtagSEP posted...

I mean, LotM is regularly accused of not caring about poor people and the like, but how is refusing to vote any better? You're still giving a giant middle finger to all the people Trump is fucking.

EDIT: I can get not wanting to vote for president if things get fucked with, but refusing to vote at all is silly.

Sorry but if it comes down to Bloomberg versus Trump, poor people in this country are utterly fucked.

TheRock1525 posted...

You do realize if Trump wins, he's likely to replace Ginsburg and Breyer, right?

At which point progressive agenda is functionally dead for 20-25 years.

I agree, so lets maybe not pull any bullshit and have a fair election?

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Yes, and they will use that judicial authority to uphold gerrymandering, voter suppression, and revisit intimidation tactics like the census question to attack democracy. All while also ceding more power to the executive, and using their lopsided Senate majority (whose bias will only increase in Rs favor in years to come) to block any legislation that could challenge them.

This isn't fearmongering, this is all stuff that is already happening and easily verified.

So you have to ask: what is the electoral solution, and if there isn't one, where is the revolution?

Gerrymandering is technically in the constitution. It is up to the party that controls the state congress to decide the maps. Both sides do it oddly enough. Only way to get fair maps is to have someone completely blind to politics do it.

Voter suppression. Voter identification more like.

Census question is fair and has been on the census in the past.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Would that be so bad?

Yeah I'm not saying we can't do an alternative system of government, I'm saying that the current most likely alternative is GOP fascism and "wait for Bernie 3" is not compelling to me!

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TheRock1525 posted...

Yes.

Not_an_Owl posted...

If it's being run the GOP? Yes. Yes it would.

Im fairly certain Chris is referring ti the government breaking down entirely, not the GOP/Dems implementing some sort of fascism.

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Corrik7 posted...

Gerrymandering is technically in the constitution. It is up to the party that controls the state congress to decide the maps. Both sides do it oddly enough. Only way to get fair maps is to have someone completely blind to politics do it.

Voter suppression. Voter identification more like.

Census question is fair and has been on the census in the past.

You can argue these things are constitutional, sure. Whether they are democratic is a separate issue! The original founding documents were not very democratic at all.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

You can argue these things are constitutional, sure. Whether they are democratic is a separate issue! The original founding documents were not very democratic at all.

Fair enough, but I mean Conservative judges tend to rule based on the Constitution. It is supposed to be up to amendments to change the constitution.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

You can argue these things are constitutional, sure. Whether they are democratic is a separate issue! The original founding documents were not very democratic at all.

That's why we've been so successful as a country. Compare with France which had a revolution a few years after us and was chopping off heads in the public squares within 4 years. What did we have that France lacked? Democracy? No. We had checks and balances.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

If it's being run the GOP? Yes. Yes it would.

I meant a literal revolution tbh

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I meant a literal revolution tbh

I like my streets without blood in them, thanks.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I meant a literal revolution tbh

0% chance of a literal revolution in America at this point.

We're so fucking lazy we can even be arsed to pick up our own fast food.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

I like my streets without blood in them, thanks.

Me too but hey it usually fixes issues

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I really wish wed stop bringing up this hypothetical that likely will never happen because the responses always give me second hand embarrassment as someone who is also supporting Sanders.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Me too but hey it usually fixes issues

And this is why people say Bernie has insane supporters.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Me too but hey it usually fixes issues

Or makes them worse.

Especially in modern times.

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And let's be completely honest - in the event of a populist American Revolution it will boil down to who the US military sides with.

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Corrik7 posted...

And this is why people say Bernie has insane supporters.

Hey if people dont want to listen to the pain of millions probably time for a revolution. I mean mind you I just plan to move over seas but I can see how this ends

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Not_an_Owl posted...

I like my streets without blood in them, thanks.

First world problems.

No but seriously, people are dying in the streets every day without healthcare.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

I really wish wed stop bringing this hypothetical that likely will never happen because it always gives me second hand embarrassment as someone who is also supporting Sanders.

I mean I intended my original "where's the revolution?" as purely a rhetorical question. The larger point about the GOP being anti-democracy so you should back candidates who support democracy regardless is my actual point.

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We should be 50 times more embarrassed that people die due to lack of health care now than any hypothetical.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hey if people dont want to listen to the pain of millions probably time for a revolution. I mean mind you I just plan to move over seas but I can see how this ends

There is pains of millions either way you go. The sun doesn't revolve around your campaign wishes, Chris.

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Sure bud

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Sure bud

Enjoy Canada I guess!

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Thinking of Europe actually

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Sounds fun.

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Yup

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I mean I intended my original "where's the revolution?" as purely a rhetorical question. The larger point about the GOP being anti-democracy so you should back candidates who support democracy regardless is my actual point.

I wasnt talking about you!

I find myself missing viable Warren more and more.

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Some choice quotes coming out of the GOP today

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/485146-gop-chairwoman-suggests-rnc-plans-to-get-litigious-over-push-for-national

"Let me just say, I have an intention to be the most litigious chair in history," McDaniel said. "I think what Democrats have done systematically to take away our rights to rig the election system, and this, to take away our votes, our Electoral College votes, and have California and New York dictate who the next president of the United States is."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trump-chief-of-staff-mulvaney-suggests-people-ignore-coronavirus-news-to-calm-markets.html

White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney on Friday suggested that Americans should ignore media reports about the coronavirus amid fears of the deadly disease spreading into the U.S.

Mulvaney, who also heads the Office of Management and Budget, also said that there will probably be school closures and transportation issues due to the impact of the virus.

Are you going to see some schools shut down? Probably. May you see impacts on public transportation? Sure, Mulvaney said as he attempted to assure his audience that the Trump administration was on top of the virus.

He was interviewed Friday morning by Stephen Moore, President Donald Trumps onetime nominee for the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Maryland.

Mulvaney claimed that the media has only started paying close attention to the coronavirus because they think this is going to be what brings down the president.

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KamikazePotato posted...

I think what Democrats have done systematically to take away our rights to rig the election system,

Is this literally a real quote wtf

Thank you for quoting Chris so I can confirm my suspicions that he has had a deep mental and emotional breakdown.

We really do need to study the effects of media (and specifically political media) on the mental health of our citizens.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

How are you defining fuckery? Let's look at these 3 brokered convention scenarios where Biden hypothetically gets the nomination over Bernie:

1. Bernie with a plurality of delegates but Biden has more popular votes

2. Biden with a plurality of delegates but Bernie has more popular votes

3. Bernie and Biden with very similar delegate count and popular vote (let's say within a few percentage points)

Which of those would make you stay home if Biden gets the nomination?

Re-upping this, because I really want to get people to commit to something grounded in reality instead of just screaming "establishment fuckery!!!!"

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Re-upping this, because I really want to get people to commit to something grounded in reality instead of just screaming "establishment fuckery!!!!"

Well I think if Bernie has the most delegates, hell certainly have the popular vote.

If Bernie has the popular vote but not the delegates, then I want Bernie. The Dems just spent the last 4 years talking about how an election should have been decided by popular vote, so I want them to stick to that.

If Bernie doesnt have the popular vote, well then I dont think hes going to be able to win the general, so Id rather someone else get the nomination so the Left doesnt have to eat that bullet.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Well I think if Bernie has the most delegates, hell certainly have the popular vote.

If Bernie has the popular vote but not the delegates, then I want Bernie. The Dems just spent the last 4 years talking about how an election should have been decided by popular vote, so I want them to stick to that.

If Bernie doesnt have the popular vote, well then I dont think hes going to be able to win the general, so Id rather someone else get the nomination so the Left doesnt have to eat that bullet.

If Bernie has the popular vote and delegate plurality but has to make some kind of policy or appointment concessions for a coalition nomination, would you accept that?

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Thank you for quoting Chris so I can confirm my suspicions that he has had a deep mental and emotional breakdown.

We really do need to study the effects of media (and specifically political media) on the mental health of our citizens.

Chill with the personal attacks.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

If Bernie has the popular vote and delegate plurality but has to make some kind of policy or appointment concessions for a coalition nomination, would you accept that?

I guess it really depends on what it is, but Id hope Bernie wouldnt make any concessions that interfere with the goals, so assuming that, yeah thats acceptable.

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Another big endorsement for Joe:

https://twitter.com/timkaine/status/1233415660748726272?s=21

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Biden has that retirement age politician vote ON LOCK.

(He was already up in Virginia but yeah this could help him a bit there. What Sanders needs is BIG wins in California and Texas to really start building up a huge delegate advantage.)

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VA is very much up in the air; Sanders, Biden, and Bloomberg all have a real shot at winning it, but Biden + Bloomberg is well ahead of Bernie. Kaines endorsement could be pretty important imo.

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https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1233433950661611520

On the bright side, Trump gets to brag about the Dow passing 25000 for the 4th time...!

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Well I think if Bernie has the most delegates, hell certainly have the popular vote.

If Bernie has the popular vote but not the delegates, then I want Bernie. The Dems just spent the last 4 years talking about how an election should have been decided by popular vote, so I want them to stick to that.

If Bernie doesnt have the popular vote, well then I dont think hes going to be able to win the general, so Id rather someone else get the nomination so the Left doesnt have to eat that bullet.

The thing with the primaries is that going by popular vote is extremely unfair to states with caucuses, since they have much lower turnout. It's basically disenfranchising them. I think you have to go by delegate count.

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Reg posted...

Is this literally a real quote wtf

Very well could be a punctuation error, since she appears to be listing three separate things.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Well I think if Bernie has the most delegates, hell certainly have the popular vote.

This is also not necessarily true. In NV, for instance, Bernie's leads over Biden in 1st preference vote, 2nd preference vote, and state delegate equivalents were 16.4%, 21.6%, and 26.6%, respectively. That probably won't be true in every state, but a situation where Bernie has a 2% delegate lead and Biden has a 1% popular vote lead is totally possible.

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You'll never guess what emergency response the White House is considering to help stop the coronavirus and its true victim: the stock market*

https://twitter.com/damianpaletta/status/1233486006474674176

*of course, its truest victim is Donald Trump

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LordoftheMorons posted...

You'll never guess what emergency response the White House is considering to help stop the coronavirus and its true victim: the stock market*

https://twitter.com/damianpaletta/status/1233486006474674176

*of course, its truest victim is Donald Trump

Payroll tax cut yes please! Although if it needs to pass the House I don't think we have much chance.

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so, i skimmed the last several pages because most of it felt like rehashing old arguments, so maybe someone maybe this point already, i apologize if so.

the idea that, if bernie wins the nomination that we might lose down-ballot races is pretty fucking stupid. if bernie wins the nomination it's because of his unprecedented grass-roots movement. it's because of the best sustained campaign organizing we've certainly ever seen in our lifetimes from a democrat (honestly, donald trump is probably the modern comparison here, dude has never stopped campaigning). to suggest that, if bernie does manage to get that massive grass roots movement to turn out in large enough numbers to secure him the nomination will just ignore the down-ballot races is mind-numbingly stupid.

the logical take here is that, if bernie wins, we're *more* likely to win down-ballot races. if bernie wins, it's because he's turning out large numbers of people that normally don't vote. i fail to see any logical argument that these people wont also vote blue down ticket.

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Corrik7 posted...

Chill with the personal attacks.

They aren't attacks. I am upset for the dude.

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oh also - i remember seeing something about people complaining about quoting others in a way that subverts block lists? i am unaware of this and if there is something i can do to prevent this please let me know.

i don't block people in this topic but i understand that some people have a much harder time dealing with some of the rhetoric from certain users and i definitely don't want to subvert their desires

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red sox 777 posted...

Payroll tax cut yes please! Although if it needs to pass the House I don't think we have much chance.

They said payroll tax cuts was a no go but what I heard is he wants to make the current tax cuts permanent, make the 22% bracket 12% and give tax free stock investment up to like 10k a year on top of 401ks.

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pxlated posted...

the logical take here is that, if bernie wins, we're *more* likely to win down-ballot races. if bernie wins, it's because he's turning out large numbers of people that normally don't vote. i fail to see any logical argument that these people wont also vote blue down ticket.

Thr problem is that the DNC (or at least a subset of it) is floating the exact opposite idea, fueling speculation that they'll use it as an excuse to screw Bernie.

pxlated posted...

oh also - i remember seeing something about people complaining about quoting others in a way that subverts block lists? i am unaware of this and if there is something i can do to prevent this please let me know.

i don't block people in this topic but i understand that some people have a much harder time dealing with some of the rhetoric from certain users and i definitely don't want to subvert their desires

That was Jakyl iirc, basically cutting the link between the quote block and the post it was quoting, so the script that hid it if the original post was ignored wouldn't work.

Reg posted...

That was Jakyl iirc, basically cutting the link between the quote block and the post it was quoting, so the script that hid it if the original post was ignored wouldn't work.

so as long as i just use the quote function as normal without editing it, i'm good? thanks

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Reg posted...

Thr problem is that the DNC (or at least a subset of it) is floating the exact opposite idea, fueling speculation that they'll use it as an excuse to screw Bernie.

well yeah, i mean of course it's going to be used as a scare tactic. it just seemed like some people here were actually buying into it. if i misunderstood that in my skimming, whoops, disregard then

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