Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 9: The Chapters are not Named

(+) Yeah! (+)

To tie up a loose end, Sultan's detailed list looks way better. But at that point I had told exactly why I thought he was scum. He put meat on the bones. What actually looks the best is that I'm not sure he had enough time to generate that without actually having his own thoughts. So take some town points I guess. My gut still leans scum. Maybe I'm in my own head though.

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Red's Watcher claim is too CONVENIENT. Like maybe I would've been interested if he claimed two people targeted Chris. That's much harder to fake. But he picked a role where he conveniently shouldn't give us any information. Red is still scum.

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Red might be scum but we can also find other scum! The lynch train, as small as it is, on Tom is bad. There is almost certainly scum on it. I really want to say it's Lopen. But Lopen is like the one person who realizes how convenient Red's lynch is. Cam was voting before the train started. Both Lopen and Ulti have dinged my radar this game. But Lopen still wants Red's head. So, I guess Ulti gets the most scum points.

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Pointedly not unvoting Red.
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Lopen posted...

If you make a gut read it should show in how you approach the game is what I'm saying.

What does this mean

Do you want me to express a dislike of Pez
I did
Do you want me to explain it's intuitive
I did
Do you want me to point out that's how I catch scum pez
I did
Do you want me to do all that early on
I did
Do you want me to vote him
I (just) did
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pezloco posted...

Pointedly not unvoting Red.

My man.
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On the subject of Red, I don't think lynching him TODAY is a good idea. There are other ways to trap a watcher claim than letting them make a mislynch.
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@Tom_Bombadil Give me an estimate of how many games we've played together? (Including AIM)
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Hundred or two?
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Tom Bombadil posted...

What does this mean

I want it to show in your interpretation of Pez's posts, in how you consider suspicions of red, better articulate your suspicion of Pez, or anything to show me that you're trying to digest the game when you're not being pressured to do so. At this point there is more to work with than gut. Do so to try and validate your gut.

Gut carrying you into what imo looks like directly contradictory thinking doesnt cut it for me unless you explain it better.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

Hundred or two?

Now, in how many of those games have you (as scum) voted for me (as town)? Or vice versa? (exclude times where it would win the game (lost the game)).
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pezloco posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

Hundred or two?

Now, in how many of those games have you (as scum) voted for me (as town)? Or vice versa? (exclude times where it would win the game (lost the game)).

Vice Versa being Me as scum voting for you as town.
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Hbthebattle posted...

Well, if you made a gut read, you'd naturally try to look for more evidence that could justify your gut read, correct?

Not always.

Hbthebattle posted...

Puns, would you say Tom has done so?

Idk I haven't payed a lot of attention to Tom tbh

Will be generous and say 10
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pezloco posted...

pezloco posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

Hundred or two?

Now, in how many of those games have you (as scum) voted for me (as town)? Or vice versa? (exclude times where it would win the game (lost the game)).

Vice Versa being Me as scum voting for you as town.

Oh then I'm not sure ever really
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Tom Bombadil posted...

Will be generous and say 10

Wow that's WAY higher than I think. I don't remember a time either of us voted for the other as opposite sides except to win the game, save maybe the one time you fooled me.

@Lopen My point is actually directed at you. Tom and I (almost) never misdirect town. So if you think Tom is scum then you should think I am scum, because Tom voted for me. If you think I am scum, then you should probably think that Tom is town, because to the best of my knowledge we don't lie about each other's alignment unless it wins us the game. I get that you can't rely on this. So take it with a grain of salt or a mountain of salt if you have to. But this is how we work and it's been consistent over hundreds of games.
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Lopen posted...

unless you explain it better

I have explained it about every way I can think of

If you want me doing something besides gut and sheeping off the top of my head
-one of the only to attack sbell and ulti
-one of the only to actively like cam
-attacked Chris
-defended pez from being misunderstood over the sk thing
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Tom Bombadil posted...

Lopen posted...

unless you explain it better

I have explained it about every way I can think of

If you want me doing something besides gut and sheeping off the top of my head
-one of the only to attack sbell and ulti
-one of the only to actively like cam
-attacked Chris
-defended pez from being misunderstood over the sk thing

I like Cam, do people really think he's scummy? I assumed people recognized the poor logic likely means he's town and not scum that's been caught in a lie. I know I skimmed a lot of D1, but are people saying this today? I thought I was able to read today much more carefully.
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There's not a lot of heat on cam but not a lot of love either
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Well there's corrik I guess
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Votals (as of post 267)
(3) Red: 5tar, (Lopen), (Lea), Chris, (Ben), (pez), (Tom), pez, (Hb)
(3) SBell: (Chris), MZero, (Lopen), (puns), dowolf, puns
(3) Tom: Cam, Ulti, Lopen
(2) MZero: (Corrik), Lea, Ben
(2) Corrik: (dowolf), (Lea), (Ben), (Chris), Sultan, Hb
(1) Pez: (Ulti), (Lea), Tom
(1) Hb: Corrik
(0) Chris: (Corrik)
(0) Lopen: (Lea), (Ulti), (puns), (Ulti)
(0) 5tar: (Ulti)

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to reach a majority. Day will end on Sunday, June 23th at 9PM EDT or if majority is reached ahead of time.

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Tom Bombadil posted...

Well there's corrik I guess

I ignore Corrik mostly. I'm pretty sure he's town as I said early in the day I think. And I haven't seen anything in these two games that shows I can actually trust him to speak truthfully. I don't know if I think he's playing the game (I lost again) at a higher level than I am, or at a higher level than he's capable of. I lean towards the latter honestly.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

There's not a lot of heat on cam but not a lot of love either

Literally everyone recognizes I'm lock Town :D

D
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:D, even
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Camarija posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

I'll tell you what, you don't have to go after me if you go after MZero

I'm more or less fine with any of the following lynches:

Red
Tom
Corrik - (I know this will get vetoed)

I'd also consider among the following:

8. MZero
10. 5tarscream
18. Lolo_Guru

Just bringing this up again

I'll look into Mzero, 5tarscream and Lolo in the next 24 hours

pezloco posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

Well there's corrik I guess

I ignore Corrik mostly. I'm pretty sure he's town as I said early in the day I think. And I haven't seen anything in these two games that shows I can actually trust him to speak truthfully. I don't know if I think he's playing the game (I lost again) at a higher level than I am, or at a higher level than he's capable of. I lean towards the latter honestly.

Oh no he didnt
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Corrik7 posted...

pezloco posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

Well there's corrik I guess

I ignore Corrik mostly. I'm pretty sure he's town as I said early in the day I think. And I haven't seen anything in these two games that shows I can actually trust him to speak truthfully. I don't know if I think he's playing the game (I lost again) at a higher level than I am, or at a higher level than he's capable of. I lean towards the latter honestly.

Oh no he didnt

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/3487694848/hC8746B0C/
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Well at this rate I get to sleep before midnight at least
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Dead chat is dead. I'm not staying up until 1+ like last night. I'll check back in, in like 15-20 min. But I don't see much of a reason to stay up.

Let me reiterate that I think Tom is town and that scum is likely on his lynch. I'd rather that scum be Lopen considering I thought Ulti was looking good today. But the Red arguments make me like Lopen.

My current lynch order Red > Sultan > Ulti > Lopen

My current town reads Tom, Chris > Dowolf > Puns > Corrik > Lea, Cam.

Tom and Chris I think are self explanatory. Dowolf, I guess the role could be scum aligned, so I won't confirm him as town. But I don't find it likely a scum role. Puns and Corrik were covered in a post early.

Lea I liked yesterday. I like her less today. However, where some have pointed towards inconsistency I see doubt, as in she isn't informed of people's roles. That's my read. Cam I think is most likely town with bad logic, heard he was similar in Endgame. I thought he was scum before but that was tied to my mistakenly connecting Lopen and Lea together when he quoted them in separate posts. They are in fact separate people so what I saw was wrong. This was my only scum read on him.

That's a whole lot of null in the middle though.
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Camarija posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

There's not a lot of heat on cam but not a lot of love either

Literally everyone recognizes I'm lock Town :D

This is true
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pezloco posted...

I get that you can't rely on this. So take it with a grain of salt or a mountain of salt if you have to. But this is how we work and it's been consistent over hundreds of games.

His interactions with red are the more suspicious ones and I think you're just collateral damage, and he hasn't made enough of a real push on you for me to think it's "misdirection." I mean, I guess your argument is that he voted you at all should "clear" him (or damn you) but that's not good enough for me to rely on you're correct.

Particularly because the majority of your sample size is AIM mafia and the voting dynamic just works differently there. Putting a vote on someone in and of itself has a lot more weight in AIM mafia imo. A vote in board mafia is generally ignored without a strong argument-- just ask Corrik who has been doing that all game.
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What I've seen is Pez saying Tom is town and Tom at one point saying Pez is 70% scum.

So if I'm to believe they don't often try to misdirect town and can read each other well, it's pretty cut and dry. What do you have to say to that, Pez?
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Like uh, my whole argument is that the reason I think he has "suspicion" of you is (was) to give him an escape valve to get off red. It's not to actually get you lynched. He has made no attempt to get you lynched whatsoever.
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I mean, it's possible both are scum, no?
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I've been calling him scum all game and have my vote on him

Do you think I was seeing him up as an escape valve back when I was calling red town
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Hbthebattle posted...

I mean, it's possible both are scum, no?

For sure. But it suggests a definitive reason to kill Pez before Tom first. And I selfishly would prefer my town list to not be blemished
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It's possible. Pez makes more sense as town to me at the moment, though. I think he's too heavily entwined with my scum suspects to really fit in that team right now. Also his posts have generally seemed okay. Having the courage to stay on Red and do so with enough conviction that it doesn't give him an easy escape route if we start getting late day lynch train shenanigans makes him look real good to me too.
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Also I got off red because he claimed scanner and hasn't been countered and the guy I've been banking on for a read on him kinda got bored and stopped pushing him, much like how I've lost a lot of my Lea momentum
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She can't keep getting away with thissssss

Tom Bombadil posted...

I've been calling him scum all game and have my vote on him

Do you think I was seeing him up as an escape valve back when I was calling red town

I think you did a forced upping of intensity in your conviction. You were "maybe slight scum lean" early game.
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Do your confidence level not change over time
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benjamin3740 posted...

What I've seen is Pez saying Tom is town and Tom at one point saying Pez is 70% scum.

So if I'm to believe they don't often try to misdirect town and can read each other well, it's pretty cut and dry. What do you have to say to that, Pez?

I'd say there are only two reasonable possibilities, both of which have Tom as town. I guess there's like a 1% chance Tom is SK or some other third party. But I doubt that very much. 1% is probably way too high.

I've already said this before Tom voted me (I think), if Tom or I ever vote for the other you guys should heavily weigh that in your reads. I believe this was the post where I said I wasn't likely to ever claim the phrase roommate powers again. Roommate powers was when he or I was 100% certain of the other. The fact is we haven't lived together or even in the same state for more than half a decade we don't know each other quite as well as we used to. But we certainly know each other better than possibly any other pair in the game know each other. To ignore what one says about the other is foolish.
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My confidence levels change based on arguments and evidence, generally. Then again I don't really do gut reads to begin with so I don't know how that would generally progress. Any sort of claim of gut read would just be a 'read' where I'm fishing for reactions more than anything.

On the other hand Red was a gut read too and he was supposedly moved by arguments and evidence, so yeah I don't really know how to take it. Maintaining a claim of suspicion on Pez feels more like you're mindlessly tunneling at this point, frankly, because you haven't really built on it or pushed it at any point. Heck you don't even have a vote on him today!

Let me put it another way-- do you really still think Pez is scum?
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Lopen posted...

Like uh, my whole argument is that the reason I think he has "suspicion" of you is (was) to give him an escape valve to get off red. It's not to actually get you lynched. He has made no attempt to get you lynched whatsoever.

And I didn't talk about trying to get each other lynched. I talked about voting each other.
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pezloco posted...

I talked about voting each other.

Lopen posted...

he majority of your sample size is AIM mafia and the voting dynamic just works differently there. Putting a vote on someone in and of itself has a lot more weight in AIM mafia imo. A vote in board mafia is generally ignored without a strong argument

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Lopen posted...

pezloco posted...

I talked about voting each other.

Lopen posted...

he majority of your sample size is AIM mafia and the voting dynamic just works differently there. Putting a vote on someone in and of itself has a lot more weight in AIM mafia imo. A vote in board mafia is generally ignored without a strong argument

Make your own read of course. I don't think Tom and I treat each other significantly differently in AIM and board. It's not like Tom and I have played no games on the board together by the way. The majority of our history is AIM sure. But we've played probably 8 or 9 games together on the board? He's been in literally every game I've played here except the one I played that he hosted.
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Lopen posted...

Heck you don't even have a vote on him today!

L

HanOfTheNekos posted...

(1) Pez: (Ulti), (Lea), Tom
(

Lopen posted...

the reason I think he has "suspicion" of you is (was) to give him an escape valve to get off red

Which it's the truth?????
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Oh you do have a vote again. It was so forgettable I just assumed the opening post was accurate.

pezloco posted...

Make your own read of course. I don't think Tom and I treat each other significantly differently in AIM and board. It's not like Tom and I have played no games on the board together by the way. The majority of our history is AIM sure. But we've played probably 8 or 9 games together on the board? He's been in literally every game I've played here except the one I played that he hosted.

I think you can treat each other the same and have different voting habits in AIM mafia vs board mafia, was more my point. I feel like in AIM mafia there's no such thing as a vote without pressure. I would say what Tom has done to you this game is basically that. So it could be less about voting and more about pressure. Am I right? Maybe, maybe not. I'm just explaining why I think the games are significantly different.
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Also it's ironic that you pointed out you have a vote on him as a counter argument to him being a red escape valve when you literally voted him after unvoting red.
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It's also ironic that you called red an escape valve but forgot I switched to pez from him. Pick one of those arguments, probably the one that at least isn't demonstrably false
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Tom Bombadil posted...

It's also ironic that you called red an escape valve but forgot I switched to pez from him. Pick one of those arguments, probably the one that at least isn't demonstrably false

Um you got it wrong. He said I was the escape to get off of Red. He thinks your buddies with Red and using me as an easy parked vote.
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(neither of those are actually ironic but hey)
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