Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Kirby,Sagat, K.Rool, B&K v Estinien, Vrtra, Gael, Vivi, Haurchefant

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 8:35:08 PM #1:	Estinien Wyrmblood, Vrtra, Slave Knight Gael, Vivi Ornitier and Haurchefant Graystone have challenged Kirby, Sagat, King K. Rool, Banjo and Kazooie to a fight! Location of the fight: Gruntilda's Lair - The mountainous lair of a self-obsessed witch, littered with monuments to her greatness. All world entrances have been closed, enemies, items, warp cauldrons, note doors, and Brentildas have been removed, though access to Spiral Mountain and the lair's exterior is granted. The water level around Rusty Bucket Bay is at its highest to grant access to Click Clock Woods area. Attackers start at the lairs entrance while defenders start where Dingpot resides. The King of all Cosmos has spawned a bear in the center of the terrain. If any member of either team touches it or Banjo (excluding a bear coming into contact with itself), the King of All Cosmos will immediately remove them and the bear from the match, both considered KOd and unable to reenter the match. All mercenaries are aware of these conditions. This ability does not apply to Kazooie.. Which side will win? Guidelines - The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment. - The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan. - Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion. - There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from. Rules for Voting - Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags). - You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios. - Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case. - If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish. - This match will end in 24 hours. Banjo & Kazooie are as they appear in Banjo-Tooie. They have access to all of their moves and upgrades, including Proximity Eggs, may use Pad abilities without needing a pad, and have the Feathers, Eggs, Fallproof, Honeyback, and Homing Cheato codes active. They also have access to their Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset, with the exception of gameplay mechanics (shielding, parrying, etc.) and their Final Smash. King K. Rool is as he appears in Donkey Kong 64. He has access to his techniques and weapons from Donkey Kong Country 2, DK Jungle Climber, and his Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset, with the exception of his final smash, game mechanics like shielding, turning invincible, or Mega K. Rool. And yes, he can turn invisible. If K. Rools entire team is defeated, he will automatically revive at full health after his last teammate has fallen, including himself. His body will have vanished, and he will launch an automatic sneak attack on whatever remains of the enemy team the moment that they would have normally won. K. Rool has taken the Garrus Vakarian copy ability from Kirby and is considered to have been given a full breakdown on how it works. He will be able to use it to at least an acceptable degree of competency. All of his ammo will immediately be restored if his revival sneak attack is triggered. Sagat is as he appears in Street Fighter V, with all feats from the Street Fighter series intact. His V-Trigger is Tiger Assault. He may use supers and ultras if meter is properly built up. Kirby is as he appears in Kirby and the Forgotten Land on Spring Breeze mode. He has access to his Morpho Knight's Sword and the Wing, Stone, Zenos viator Galvus and Vivi Ornitier copy abilities, as well as his Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset and his Friend Heart ability from Kirby Star Allies. He may only use Friend Hearts on his allies to make them good friends, and cannot revive with Friend Hearts. He cannot copy or swallow mercenaries, but may inhale anything not part of the terrains structure, can control any vehicles not currently being piloted via Mouthful Mode, and will not lose copy abilities from taking damage. He only has five minutes left to live, at the end of which he will mysteriously keel over, dead and unable to be revived in any way, shape or form. He and his team are aware of his impending demise, and have factored it into their battle plans. ~VS~ Lord Haurchefant Greystone is as he is seen in Final Fantasy XIV, including all feats in-game and in cutscenes. Vivi Ornitier is as he appears in Final Fantasy 9, equipped with his ultimate endgame equipment and his full complement of passive abilities, minus all auto abilities except for Auto-Reflect (which he may dismiss at will but not reapply). He has access to all of his spells save Death, may apply Element Null as he sees fit and may perform Sword Magic combos with other allies as appropriate. Doomsday will not necessarily hit all enemies nor allies automatically. Slave Knight Gael is as he is seen in phase 3 of his boss fight in Dark Souls 3: The Ringed City, although he starts at full health and retains his sanity from before his bossfight as well as his moveset from previous phases. The lightning storm around him only extends to his immediate vicinity and does not hurt his teammates. He has been hit by 3 Tiger Shots from Sagat, damaging him and knocking him back 15 feet. Estinien Wyrmblood is as he is seen in Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker, with all of his gameplay, cutscene, and trailer feats from every expansion of the game. He also has the full PvP Dragoon kit, sans elixirs. He will begin the match absent from the battlefield. After thirty seconds, he will attempt to land his Dragonshadow Dive on Kirby. It can be dodged, but he isn't visible until falling from the apex of his jump once those thirty seconds are up. Only Estinien's team knows he is missing and when he'll be back, but they do not know who his target is. Vrtra is as he is seen in Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker, with all gameplay, cutscene, and trailer feats from it. Varshahn is absent, so he possesses both of his eyes. He will also be absent from the battlefield until Estinien starts to fall and will reveal himself at the apex of the jump, shooting a fireball at the spot Estinien landed at one second after landing, or as soon as he no longer risks friendly-fire. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970959716] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Estinien Wyrmblood, Vrtra, Slave Knight Gael, Vivi Ornitier and Haurchefant Graystone have challenged Kirby, Sagat, King K. Rool, Banjo and Kazooie to a fight! Location of the fight: Gruntilda's Lair - The mountainous lair of a self-obsessed witch, littered with monuments to her greatness. All world entrances have been closed, enemies, items, warp cauldrons, note doors, and Brentildas have been removed, though access to Spiral Mountain and the lair's exterior is granted. The water level around Rusty Bucket Bay is at its highest to grant access to Click Clock Woods area. Attackers start at the lairs entrance while defenders start where Dingpot resides. The King of all Cosmos has spawned a bear in the center of the terrain. If any member of either team touches it or Banjo (excluding a bear coming into contact with itself), the King of All Cosmos will immediately remove them and the bear from the match, both considered KOd and unable to reenter the match. All mercenaries are aware of these conditions. This ability does not apply to Kazooie.. Which side will win?Guidelines - The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment. - The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan. - Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion. - There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.Rules for Voting - Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags). - You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios. - Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case. - If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish. - This match will end in 24 hours.Banjo & Kazooie are as they appear in Banjo-Tooie. They have access to all of their moves and upgrades, including Proximity Eggs, may use Pad abilities without needing a pad, and have the Feathers, Eggs, Fallproof, Honeyback, and Homing Cheato codes active. They also have access to their Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset, with the exception of gameplay mechanics (shielding, parrying, etc.) and their Final Smash.King K. Rool is as he appears in Donkey Kong 64. He has access to his techniques and weapons from Donkey Kong Country 2, DK Jungle Climber, and his Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset, with the exception of his final smash, game mechanics like shielding, turning invincible, or Mega K. Rool. And yes, he can turn invisible. If K. Rools entire team is defeated, he will automatically revive at full health after his last teammate has fallen, including himself. His body will have vanished, and he will launch an automatic sneak attack on whatever remains of the enemy team the moment that they would have normally won. K. Rool has taken the Garrus Vakarian copy ability from Kirby and is considered to have been given a full breakdown on how it works. He will be able to use it to at least an acceptable degree of competency. All of his ammo will immediately be restored if his revival sneak attack is triggered.Sagat is as he appears in Street Fighter V, with all feats from the Street Fighter series intact. His V-Trigger is Tiger Assault. He may use supers and ultras if meter is properly built up.Kirby is as he appears in Kirby and the Forgotten Land on Spring Breeze mode. He has access to his Morpho Knight's Sword and the Wing, Stone, Zenos viator Galvus and Vivi Ornitier copy abilities, as well as his Super Smash Bros. Ultimate moveset and his Friend Heart ability from Kirby Star Allies. He may only use Friend Hearts on his allies to make them good friends, and cannot revive with Friend Hearts. He cannot copy or swallow mercenaries, but may inhale anything not part of the terrains structure, can control any vehicles not currently being piloted via Mouthful Mode, and will not lose copy abilities from taking damage. He only has five minutes left to live, at the end of which he will mysteriously keel over, dead and unable to be revived in any way, shape or form. He and his team are aware of his impending demise, and have factored it into their battle plans.~VS~Lord Haurchefant Greystone is as he is seen in Final Fantasy XIV, including all feats in-game and in cutscenes.Vivi Ornitier is as he appears in Final Fantasy 9, equipped with his ultimate endgame equipment and his full complement of passive abilities, minus all auto abilities except for Auto-Reflect (which he may dismiss at will but not reapply). He has access to all of his spells save Death, may apply Element Null as he sees fit and may perform Sword Magic combos with other allies as appropriate. Doomsday will not necessarily hit all enemies nor allies automatically.Slave Knight Gael is as he is seen in phase 3 of his boss fight in Dark Souls 3: The Ringed City, although he starts at full health and retains his sanity from before his bossfight as well as his moveset from previous phases. The lightning storm around him only extends to his immediate vicinity and does not hurt his teammates. He has been hit by 3 Tiger Shots from Sagat, damaging him and knocking him back 15 feet.Estinien Wyrmblood is as he is seen in Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker, with all of his gameplay, cutscene, and trailer feats from every expansion of the game. He also has the full PvP Dragoon kit, sans elixirs. He will begin the match absent from the battlefield. After thirty seconds, he will attempt to land his Dragonshadow Dive on Kirby. It can be dodged, but he isn't visible until falling from the apex of his jump once those thirty seconds are up. Only Estinien's team knows he is missing and when he'll be back, but they do not know who his target is.Vrtra is as he is seen in Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker, with all gameplay, cutscene, and trailer feats from it. Varshahn is absent, so he possesses both of his eyes. He will also be absent from the battlefield until Estinien starts to fall and will reveal himself at the apex of the jump, shooting a fireball at the spot Estinien landed at one second after landing, or as soon as he no longer risks friendly-fire.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 8:39:41 PM #2:	I'm not looking to go TOO wall-of-text, especially when this match is so grossly lopsided. Without the pink ball, Kamek's team has nothing. Unfortunately for our beloved Kirbo... here's what our new Mercs dragoon can do in one jump to a structure-sized mega-cannon: https://youtu.be/pnlx3Wgvv_o?t=39 One high jump destroys a reinforced oil pipeline and makes the thing inoperable for hours. That's a far weaker jump than what Kirby's about to deal with. Instead, he has this Dragonshadow Dive coming for him: https://youtu.be/MB6n7wGFIBE?t=425 One-shots a prototype ultima weapon that was invincible to traditional methods of attack. That's the old version of it. But here's a look of what both he and his dragon buddy have in store: https://youtu.be/zTTtd6bnhFs?t=122 That's the Dragonshadow Dive wielded by current Endwalker-era Estinien, preceded by a super fireball from Vrtra, one of the great wyrms of FF14. Those minions are pretty tough customers when you fight them in game, and he just clears them out like ants. Kirby has to deal with both in an ambush from above, let alone the poor bastards who end up near him at the time. Even if you take Kirby to A) be in Zenos mode when the jump is coming and B) actually use Zenos-level Resonance and REFLEXES (TM) as well as the original source -- a damn hard sell imo -- Vrtra and Estinien are wise enough to just fall back if the plan fails and kite for five minutes. No shot Kirby manages to even hurt Estinien in that amount of time, on this terrain. Gruntilda's Lair may not have been the best choice of terrain, honestly. Vrtra probably won't fit through the tunnels, being the large lad he is, but instead he can just wreak havoc on Kamek's team from the sky - and he's smart enough to just do that. The only one who could possibly get to him is Kirby. Okay, enough of that, lets look at the rest of the lineup. K. Rool has Kirby-style Garrus Mode. Thats pretty potent! Unfortunately, I dont buy this copy ability giving him the same tier of ridiculous guns that real Garrus has, and even if I did, I do not trust the crocs marksmanship. The dudes usual firearm shoots slow-moving cannonballs and has a suction mode attached to it. Hes probably not even ready for what burst fire is. Vrtra is a big target, yes, but heres the punishment one of Vrtras brothers, Nidhogg, can deal with: https://youtu.be/XRLXlCjoE6g?t=66 Keep in mind that this is Nidhogg turbo-nerfed by the power of his own eye, plus only having one eye himself (which isnt even his), and he still survives getting skewered through the head by a trained dragonslayer, only truly dying once his spare eye gets taken from him. The eyes of FF14 great wyrm are their actual vital organs, and there are zero showings where someone can beat such a dragon without the power of their own dragon eye. Zero people on the enemy team are going to know that, and someone with K. Rools intellect isnt going to figure it out even if his second-life ambush were to matter. Sagat is a tough customer if he can get in, but, uh, he cant. Tiger shots aint gonna do a damn thing to Vrtra, and Estinien has him outclassed even up close. Even then, he has to get through the wall that is Gael empowered with Vivi sword magic, and Haurchefant, a trained knight and protector of people even form swift-moving dragons, can cover a flank in to protect our sweet black mage boy. Will Banjo touch anybody for a kill? No. Of course not. Jesus. Who is he even going to catch, moving at the pace he does with so few ranged options and nobody packing a way to lock any of my team down? He dies to the Dragonshadow Dive and Vrtra fireball, or any follow-up Vrtra fireballs after the jump resolves. Toasty. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970959818] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I'm not looking to go TOO wall-of-text, especially when this match is so grossly lopsided. Without the pink ball, Kamek's team has nothing.Unfortunately for our beloved Kirbo... here's what our new Mercs dragoon can do in one jump to a structure-sized mega-cannon:https://youtu.be/pnlx3Wgvv_o?t=39One high jump destroys a reinforced oil pipeline and makes the thing inoperable for hours.That's a far weaker jump than what Kirby's about to deal with. Instead, he has this Dragonshadow Dive coming for him:https://youtu.be/MB6n7wGFIBE?t=425One-shots a prototype ultima weapon that was invincible to traditional methods of attack. That's the old version of it. But here's a look of what both he and his dragon buddy have in store:https://youtu.be/zTTtd6bnhFs?t=122That's the Dragonshadow Dive wielded by current Endwalker-era Estinien, preceded by a super fireball from Vrtra, one of the great wyrms of FF14. Those minions are pretty tough customers when you fight them in game, and he just clears them out like ants. Kirby has to deal with both in an ambush from above, let alone the poor bastards who end up near him at the time.Even if you take Kirby to A) be in Zenos mode when the jump is coming and B) actually use Zenos-level Resonance and REFLEXES (TM) as well as the original source -- a damn hard sell imo -- Vrtra and Estinien are wise enough to just fall back if the plan fails and kite for five minutes. No shot Kirby manages to even hurt Estinien in that amount of time, on this terrain.Gruntilda's Lair may not have been the best choice of terrain, honestly. Vrtra probably won't fit through the tunnels, being the large lad he is, but instead he can just wreak havoc on Kamek's team from the sky - and he's smart enough to just do that. The only one who could possibly get to him is Kirby.Okay, enough of that, lets look at the rest of the lineup.K. Rool has Kirby-style Garrus Mode. Thats pretty potent! Unfortunately, I dont buy this copy ability giving him the same tier of ridiculous guns that real Garrus has, and even if I did, I do not trust the crocs marksmanship. The dudes usual firearm shoots slow-moving cannonballs and has a suction mode attached to it. Hes probably not even ready for what burst fire is. Vrtra is a big target, yes, but heres the punishment one of Vrtras brothers, Nidhogg, can deal with:https://youtu.be/XRLXlCjoE6g?t=66Keep in mind that this is Nidhogg turbo-nerfed by the power of his own eye, plus only having one eye himself (which isnt even his), and he still survives getting skewered through the head by a trained dragonslayer, only truly dying once his spare eye gets taken from him. The eyes of FF14 great wyrm are their actual vital organs, and there are zero showings where someone can beat such a dragon without the power of their own dragon eye. Zero people on the enemy team are going to know that, and someone with K. Rools intellect isnt going to figure it out even if his second-life ambush were to matter.Sagat is a tough customer if he can get in, but, uh, he cant. Tiger shots aint gonna do a damn thing to Vrtra, and Estinien has him outclassed even up close. Even then, he has to get through the wall that is Gael empowered with Vivi sword magic, and Haurchefant, a trained knight and protector of people even form swift-moving dragons, can cover a flank in to protect our sweet black mage boy.Will Banjo touch anybody for a kill? No. Of course not. Jesus. Who is he even going to catch, moving at the pace he does with so few ranged options and nobody packing a way to lock any of my team down? He dies to the Dragonshadow Dive and Vrtra fireball, or any follow-up Vrtra fireballs after the jump resolves. Toasty.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 8:41:43 PM #3:	The Short Version -Sagat is a solid stall to ensure that K. Rool and Banjo get in position. -Kirby can fly out of the lairs top, which connects right to its mouth via a very long drop (which Wing and Stone facilitate for him). He is not going to be near the rest of his team - he's gotta bail outta there with his short life and they're not fast enough to accompany him! If he gets dragoond while stoning, thats gonna be frustrating for Mr. Drag-On Dragoon. If not, given Forgotten Land bosses and Zenos precog hes copying, he can take it. He heals up with his attacks and then OH NO ZENOS POWERS. -Banjo is a bear. If he touches anyone other than Kazooie, both him and whoever he touches will go bye-bye via the King of All Cosmos. Banjos Wonderwing allows him. -K. Rool and Kazooie both have mines. Gruntys Lair is filled with very tight corridors and chokepoints. Getting to them will be horrendous and arduous. -K. Rool has two magical future guns. These guns are based on miniature mass relays, shaving off small ammo clips to launch them with electromagnets to supersonic velocities. These are not just bullets, they are superbullets. Superbullets that specifically pierce armor AND terrain AND shred through insides. This is on someone who can actively turn invisible and has another gun that freezes you. -If K. Rool dies, he gets a free shot on anyone left alive with a supergun sniper rifle. This sniper rifle regularly kills space marines with space armor and psionic shielding with a BODYSHOT. No ones gonna survive. -There is another bear here. If anyone touches him, they also die. Im sure hes nice. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970959850] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>The Short Version-Sagat is a solid stall to ensure that K. Rool and Banjo get in position.-Kirby can fly out of the lairs top, which connects right to its mouth via a very long drop (which Wing and Stone facilitate for him). He is not going to be near the rest of his team - he's gotta bail outta there with his short life and they're not fast enough to accompany him! If he gets dragoond while stoning, thats gonna be frustrating for Mr. Drag-On Dragoon. If not, given Forgotten Land bosses and Zenos precog hes copying, he can take it. He heals up with his attacks and then OH NO ZENOS POWERS.-Banjo is a bear. If he touches anyone other than Kazooie, both him and whoever he touches will go bye-bye via the King of All Cosmos. Banjos Wonderwing allows him.-K. Rool and Kazooie both have mines. Gruntys Lair is filled with very tight corridors and chokepoints. Getting to them will be horrendous and arduous. -K. Rool has two magical future guns. These guns are based on miniature mass relays, shaving off small ammo clips to launch them with electromagnets to supersonic velocities. These are not just bullets, they are superbullets. Superbullets that specifically pierce armor AND terrain AND shred through insides. This is on someone who can actively turn invisible and has another gun that freezes you.-If K. Rool dies, he gets a free shot on anyone left alive with a supergun sniper rifle. This sniper rifle regularly kills space marines with space armor and psionic shielding with a BODYSHOT. No ones gonna survive.-There is another bear here. If anyone touches him, they also die. Im sure hes nice.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dante 01/19/23 8:42:19 PM #4:	https://imgur.com/LLymo3N --- boring and mundane signature Now with more bold! Less Italics due to bold <cite>Dante posted [p:970959864] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>https://imgur.com/LLymo3N</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 8:42:47 PM #5:	Okay I Need Some Convincing Version Look, I get it. You see Kirby with a heart virus and an angry dragoon telling him his life ends in 30 seconds, you see a giant dragon supported by the worlds most lovable black mage, and then you look over and Ive got a goofy crocodile and a bird. This looks like a stupid fight. However, every single advantage, every intangible, works entirely in my favor. And those intangibles are K. Rool is the most dangerous man in this building, no shut up, he is, youre actually dead and oh man Kirby tho. KIRBY THO. This is A LOT, I want to cover every angle here. So please, do relax only check out the portions youre curious about or disagree with in the above, and enjoy. Understanding Gruntildas Lair https://i.redd.it/mz385ysvwsy41.jpg Gruntys Lair is a sprawling system of small corridors with weird themed areas for each world. Its less a singular hub like Peachs Castle and more a system of smaller hubs that spiral up to the top, with a few branches here and there. The important thing to note is the starting locations: Kirby & Friends start in Dingpots Chamber, which is a small flight up to the very top of the lair. Team Vivi starts at the lairs mouth, connected directly to Spiral Mountain. The thing with this is, <i>The top of the lair is directly connected to Spiral Mountain</I>. Its a bit of a drop (as Grunty herself proved at the end of the game), but simply by jumping off the top of the lair, youll find your way to the bottom. Banjo is WELL versed in this, and knows very well that Kirbys time is short, so introducing the pink puffball (who has the Wing ability, mind you, making his ascent significantly faster) to the fastest route to the enemy to flank them is GONNA happen. Its also going to keep Kirby far, FAR away from his teammates when Estinien eventually lands which could very well be on Stone Kirby, as Stone is there to ensure that the little guy makes it to the ground with time to spare! And if anyone should try to get the same idea, fly up top? Well, its a damn long way to fall, Grunty taking a solid 20 seconds from fall to splat during her own tumble, and it likely takes longer to fall down than anyone could fly up! By that time, K. Rool and Banjo will be long gone, ready to hold up anywhere in the lair that theyd like in order to get a perfect stronghold. Kirby Kirbys improved a bit since the days of Super Star! Specifically, his showings in Forgotten Land are a MASSIVE step up! Please observe his battle with the final boss (who, surprisingly, has his True Arena form made canon, a first for the Kirby series!) https://youtu.be/XKaGhrkkXd4 Keep in mind this is BASE FORM Kirby. He doesnt have any special powers for this fight, and here he is, taking on a cross-dimensional psychic being, enfused with the chaotic power lingering from Morpho Knight, a tiny butterfly who eats beings of incredible cosmic power and adds it to his own (you ever think about the little butterflies that follow Kirby around? Theyre trying to devour him. Hes too strong).Look on as Kirby is able to evade black holes, massive meteors, even a ball made of pure flame and hate (5:07), even a massive kaiju-sized stand with a spear the size of a skyscraper (2:10). Kirby can, of course, take these attacks, too - and that aint just gameplay talking! Kirbys been shown to take blows from foes like Meta Knight, who casually bats away cars wih a single sword swipe, survived massive explosions of energy against foes like Void Termina, and can generally take a bit of a walloping in spite of his tiny size! So when I say hes gonna survive Estiniens massive drop? Yeah hes gonna be roughed up, but thats nothing he hasnt handled before! Its also very likely, in the fight timeline, that hes got Stone up, which yeah Stone just doesnt care about being hurt. Black holes, lasers, sword strikes that cleave reality-warping machines in twain, Stone just no-sells it. Im sure SOME damage would be taken in a mercs context, Im not about to argue i-frames forever, but I think it works out that Kirbys gonna avoid some damage - if he can react to a teleport right in his face, he can probably react to a jump given theyre outside and its a looooong fall to the base of Spiral Mountain. Oh, and the little advantage of the Zenos form giving him some precognition, and it being his strongest form so hes probably gonna have it up. Yeah, no, hes got the tools to know the mans coming down. This leaves an injured Kirby Vs Estinien, probably isolated from both teams (why would you go outside rather than going forward, especially when Gaels been provoked by some Tiger Shots and theres zero guarantee theres any entrance at the top?), as the most likely scenario for the Kirbster. And you might worry about Kirby, oh no, we dont like to see Kirbo hurt at all! Let me introduce you to the Morpho Knight Sword. https://youtu.be/vmqbtf4r7uk Forged from the remains of the dream eater himself, Morpho Knights sword isnt your average blade! You can see how fast it utterly SHREDS Kirbys regular foes, and this is in its weakest, unupgraded form! Its got incredibly fast strikes, can summon fire tornadoes, can grow in size to become a big-ass buster sword, controls the soul of the damned Fecto Forgo its eaten to track in on enemies (weird flex but it can do it!), but most important are two small features. One, it turns Kirbys dodge into a short-range teleport, wherein he is completely intangible, can attack right out of it, AND can spam it easily from point to point. And two, every single hit landed by the blade has lifesteal - if you dont catch Kirby as hes teleporting around you, hes constantly getting stronger. This is, by far, the most powerful form Kirby has ever had access to, and considering that he gets that cool time slow effect that Bayonetta and Link and all the cool action kids have whenever he dodges something, letting him get in a barrage of attacks too fast to react to? Yeah, no, I think hell be okay. OH RIGHT AND HE ALSO COPIED ZENOS. Now, I am not as qualified as my colleagues to argue Zenos. However, if Kirby ends up getting this guy off? Tidal waves, followed by lightning storms? Diamond dust freezing the ground around him, no bother for master ice skater Kirby, summoning an avatar who can also petrify during it? The combination of Swift as Shadow and Thorns, able to kill an endgame Warrior of Light in a single attack? All damage absolutely unavoidable in the center of it? Ripping lives directly from you? Estinien was one of those lives, I think, I havent played FFXIV but I think from secondhand osmosis I know you get a TON of souls ripped from you that belong to some friends! Bro hes only got one Estinien soul to give! If ANYONE comes out to support Estinien in this outdoor fight thats a very bad decision! Whats Gael gonna do with non-functional legs, flail a crossbow out and then flop as hes swept away by the storm? Vivi does have reflect on him but then Kirbys got plenty of close combat to end his life with. Vtaras the one who is actually gonna contribute, but considering theyre probably struggling getting through the lair carefully (dont wanna bump into a bear, after all!), its probably gonna take them some time to get down! KIRBY SOLOS? I dont think so, I think he more than survives to his expiration timer, but Im not sure he catches up to the rest of the enemy squad. But Estinien chose the wrong puffball to land on. At best, that man is going to be horrendously wounded. At worst, he calls his buddies in to a hopeless fight that he loses. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970959874] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Okay I Need Some Convincing VersionLook, I get it. You see Kirby with a heart virus and an angry dragoon telling him his life ends in 30 seconds, you see a giant dragon supported by the worlds most lovable black mage, and then you look over and Ive got a goofy crocodile and a bird. This looks like a stupid fight. However, every single advantage, every intangible, works entirely in my favor. And those intangibles are K. Rool is the most dangerous man in this building, no shut up, he is, youre actually dead and oh man Kirby tho. KIRBY THO. This is A LOT, I want to cover every angle here. So please, do relax only check out the portions youre curious about or disagree with in the above, and enjoy.Understanding Gruntildas Lairhttps://i.redd.it/mz385ysvwsy41.jpgGruntys Lair is a sprawling system of small corridors with weird themed areas for each world. Its less a singular hub like Peachs Castle and more a system of smaller hubs that spiral up to the top, with a few branches here and there. The important thing to note is the starting locations: Kirby & Friends start in Dingpots Chamber, which is a small flight up to the very top of the lair. Team Vivi starts at the lairs mouth, connected directly to Spiral Mountain. The thing with this is, <i>The top of the lair is directly connected to Spiral Mountain</I>. Its a bit of a drop (as Grunty herself proved at the end of the game), but simply by jumping off the top of the lair, youll find your way to the bottom. Banjo is WELL versed in this, and knows very well that Kirbys time is short, so introducing the pink puffball (who has the Wing ability, mind you, making his ascent significantly faster) to the fastest route to the enemy to flank them is GONNA happen. Its also going to keep Kirby far, FAR away from his teammates when Estinien eventually lands which could very well be on Stone Kirby, as Stone is there to ensure that the little guy makes it to the ground with time to spare! And if anyone should try to get the same idea, fly up top? Well, its a damn long way to fall, Grunty taking a solid 20 seconds from fall to splat during her own tumble, and it likely takes longer to fall down than anyone could fly up! By that time, K. Rool and Banjo will be long gone, ready to hold up anywhere in the lair that theyd like in order to get a perfect stronghold.KirbyKirbys improved a bit since the days of Super Star! Specifically, his showings in Forgotten Land are a MASSIVE step up! Please observe his battle with the final boss (who, surprisingly, has his True Arena form made canon, a first for the Kirby series!)https://youtu.be/XKaGhrkkXd4Keep in mind this is BASE FORM Kirby. He doesnt have any special powers for this fight, and here he is, taking on a cross-dimensional psychic being, enfused with the chaotic power lingering from Morpho Knight, a tiny butterfly who eats beings of incredible cosmic power and adds it to his own (you ever think about the little butterflies that follow Kirby around? Theyre trying to devour him. Hes too strong).Look on as Kirby is able to evade black holes, massive meteors, even a ball made of pure flame and hate (5:07), even a massive kaiju-sized stand with a spear the size of a skyscraper (2:10). Kirby can, of course, take these attacks, too - and that aint just gameplay talking! Kirbys been shown to take blows from foes like Meta Knight, who casually bats away cars wih a single sword swipe, survived massive explosions of energy against foes like Void Termina, and can generally take a bit of a walloping in spite of his tiny size!So when I say hes gonna survive Estiniens massive drop? Yeah hes gonna be roughed up, but thats nothing he hasnt handled before! Its also very likely, in the fight timeline, that hes got Stone up, which yeah Stone just doesnt care about being hurt. Black holes, lasers, sword strikes that cleave reality-warping machines in twain, Stone just no-sells it. Im sure SOME damage would be taken in a mercs context, Im not about to argue i-frames forever, but I think it works out that Kirbys gonna avoid some damage - if he can react to a teleport right in his face, he can probably react to a jump given theyre outside and its a looooong fall to the base of Spiral Mountain.Oh, and the little advantage of the Zenos form giving him some precognition, and it being his strongest form so hes probably gonna have it up. Yeah, no, hes got the tools to know the mans coming down.This leaves an injured Kirby Vs Estinien, probably isolated from both teams (why would you go outside rather than going forward, especially when Gaels been provoked by some Tiger Shots and theres zero guarantee theres any entrance at the top?), as the most likely scenario for the Kirbster. And you might worry about Kirby, oh no, we dont like to see Kirbo hurt at all! Let me introduce you to the Morpho Knight Sword.https://youtu.be/vmqbtf4r7ukForged from the remains of the dream eater himself, Morpho Knights sword isnt your average blade! You can see how fast it utterly SHREDS Kirbys regular foes, and this is in its weakest, unupgraded form! Its got incredibly fast strikes, can summon fire tornadoes, can grow in size to become a big-ass buster sword, controls the soul of the damned Fecto Forgo its eaten to track in on enemies (weird flex but it can do it!), but most important are two small features. One, it turns Kirbys dodge into a short-range teleport, wherein he is completely intangible, can attack right out of it, AND can spam it easily from point to point. And two, every single hit landed by the blade has lifesteal - if you dont catch Kirby as hes teleporting around you, hes constantly getting stronger. This is, by far, the most powerful form Kirby has ever had access to, and considering that he gets that cool time slow effect that Bayonetta and Link and all the cool action kids have whenever he dodges something, letting him get in a barrage of attacks too fast to react to? Yeah, no, I think hell be okay. OH RIGHT AND HE ALSO COPIED ZENOS.Now, I am not as qualified as my colleagues to argue Zenos. However, if Kirby ends up getting this guy off? Tidal waves, followed by lightning storms? Diamond dust freezing the ground around him, no bother for master ice skater Kirby, summoning an avatar who can also petrify during it? The combination of Swift as Shadow and Thorns, able to kill an endgame Warrior of Light in a single attack? All damage absolutely unavoidable in the center of it? Ripping lives directly from you? Estinien was one of those lives, I think, I havent played FFXIV but I think from secondhand osmosis I know you get a TON of souls ripped from you that belong to some friends! Bro hes only got one Estinien soul to give!If ANYONE comes out to support Estinien in this outdoor fight thats a very bad decision! Whats Gael gonna do with non-functional legs, flail a crossbow out and then flop as hes swept away by the storm? Vivi does have reflect on him but then Kirbys got plenty of close combat to end his life with. Vtaras the one who is actually gonna contribute, but considering theyre probably struggling getting through the lair carefully (dont wanna bump into a bear, after all!), its probably gonna take them some time to get down!KIRBY SOLOS? I dont think so, I think he more than survives to his expiration timer, but Im not sure he catches up to the rest of the enemy squad. But Estinien chose the wrong puffball to land on. At best, that man is going to be horrendously wounded. At worst, he calls his buddies in to a hopeless fight that he loses.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 8:43:52 PM #6:	Banjo Banjo is a bear. If any bear touches another merc that isnt Kazooie, both get sucked up by the King of All Cosmos and are outta here. Thus, Banjo has two goals: tell Kirby to get outside, and then die. Even Banjo can probably figure out that the giant dragon would probably be a great target to sacrifice himself to, and he has great options to charge in with. The Beak Bomb shoots Banjo forward at a stupidly fast speed, burning up some of Kazooies Red Feathers in the process; even if he gets mowed down, his corpse is probably gonna come into contact with a dragon in the process! If thats too difficult, the Wonderwing technique makes him completely invincible. And I do mean completely - the massive dinosaur Stomponadon, foot the size of Banjos house, can try and crush the bear all hed like, Wonderwing just powers through! This is TRUE invincibility, codified by Banjo being a video game-ass universe very aware that things like cheat codes exist and CAN hurt you. No, that dragon is gone. Kazooie Kazooies role is twofold: getting Banjo in close for his big moment of death, and making Gruntys Lair an absolute nightmare to get through. Kazooie comes equipped with Proximity Eggs, which yknow the Mine Thrower from Resident Evil? Its just that. Stick to walls, stick to ceilings, whatever - she shoots it onto a surface, it sticks on, it gets armed. Considering the close-quarters nature of Gruntys Lair, this means she can EASILY trap various doorways from a distance, and youre gonna just have to hope that you notice or can effectively minesweep! This is coupled with the Clockwork Kazooie Egg, tiny little remote-control bombs that she can control somehow without them even being in her line of sight anymore, able to be remote detonated at her leisure. These can both trigger her own mines prematurely and be used to scout out where the enemy is, meaning that getting the drop on her? VERY unlikely! Sagat Sagats contributions are essentially stall out the advancing force. Banjo knows where to go, so Sagat should be able to get to where hes going before the enemy does (there are many forks leading to dead ends in Gruntys Lair, some of which are in gross swamps and deserts and stuff!) Now, Sagat is more than capable of lasting a few rounds - hes beaten Kage, the very embodiment of Ryus Satsui no Hado, bodied the mechanical lifeform, Seth, calling him weak and hollow, and is in a league of strength with Balrog, who killed an elephant in one punch. He regularly ties with Ryu, whos grown strong enough to 1v1 Bison, and even is implied to have tapped into the Power of Nothingness, which sounds a lot stronger than it is (its like anti-Satsui no Hado? Like babys first Ultra Instinct? His mind is clear and makes him super good at fighting, basically, like, Street Fighters vague on it, I dunno what more you want). Is he gonna beat everyone? Unlikely but he can probably punt a child really well. Bear There is also a bear. Based on what center of the terrain would be, Id imagine its in the hub area connecting to Freezeezy Peak. This leads to multiple chokepoints, most notably the entrance to Gobis Valley, which is the only way to access this area from the lower levels of the lair. Considering that Vivis crew doesnt exactly have a map AND are being delayed by Sagat, Kazooie is gonna get to this bear faster than anyone else. And oh you KNOW shes gonna spook it with Clockwork Kazooie eggs, not touching it, but luring it toward the enemy. This bear ALSO will KO via divine intervention on touch. It is not necessary, but bear CAN solo ANYONE once. This bear is also an insurance policy; if a big scary dragon tries tearing through the lair to find K. Rool, this bear? Gonna fall right on it. Poof. Then Banjos free to warp away a new friend! --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970959897] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>BanjoBanjo is a bear. If any bear touches another merc that isnt Kazooie, both get sucked up by the King of All Cosmos and are outta here. Thus, Banjo has two goals: tell Kirby to get outside, and then die. Even Banjo can probably figure out that the giant dragon would probably be a great target to sacrifice himself to, and he has great options to charge in with. The Beak Bomb shoots Banjo forward at a stupidly fast speed, burning up some of Kazooies Red Feathers in the process; even if he gets mowed down, his corpse is probably gonna come into contact with a dragon in the process! If thats too difficult, the Wonderwing technique makes him completely invincible. And I do mean completely - the massive dinosaur Stomponadon, foot the size of Banjos house, can try and crush the bear all hed like, Wonderwing just powers through! This is TRUE invincibility, codified by Banjo being a video game-ass universe very aware that things like cheat codes exist and CAN hurt you. No, that dragon is gone.KazooieKazooies role is twofold: getting Banjo in close for his big moment of death, and making Gruntys Lair an absolute nightmare to get through. Kazooie comes equipped with Proximity Eggs, which yknow the Mine Thrower from Resident Evil? Its just that. Stick to walls, stick to ceilings, whatever - she shoots it onto a surface, it sticks on, it gets armed. Considering the close-quarters nature of Gruntys Lair, this means she can EASILY trap various doorways from a distance, and youre gonna just have to hope that you notice or can effectively minesweep! This is coupled with the Clockwork Kazooie Egg, tiny little remote-control bombs that she can control somehow without them even being in her line of sight anymore, able to be remote detonated at her leisure. These can both trigger her own mines prematurely and be used to scout out where the enemy is, meaning that getting the drop on her? VERY unlikely!SagatSagats contributions are essentially stall out the advancing force. Banjo knows where to go, so Sagat should be able to get to where hes going before the enemy does (there are many forks leading to dead ends in Gruntys Lair, some of which are in gross swamps and deserts and stuff!) Now, Sagat is more than capable of lasting a few rounds - hes beaten Kage, the very embodiment of Ryus Satsui no Hado, bodied the mechanical lifeform, Seth, calling him weak and hollow, and is in a league of strength with Balrog, who killed an elephant in one punch. He regularly ties with Ryu, whos grown strong enough to 1v1 Bison, and even is implied to have tapped into the Power of Nothingness, which sounds a lot stronger than it is (its like anti-Satsui no Hado? Like babys first Ultra Instinct? His mind is clear and makes him super good at fighting, basically, like, Street Fighters vague on it, I dunno what more you want). Is he gonna beat everyone? Unlikely but he can probably punt a child really well.BearThere is also a bear. Based on what center of the terrain would be, Id imagine its in the hub area connecting to Freezeezy Peak. This leads to multiple chokepoints, most notably the entrance to Gobis Valley, which is the only way to access this area from the lower levels of the lair. Considering that Vivis crew doesnt exactly have a map AND are being delayed by Sagat, Kazooie is gonna get to this bear faster than anyone else. And oh you KNOW shes gonna spook it with Clockwork Kazooie eggs, not touching it, but luring it toward the enemy. This bear ALSO will KO via divine intervention on touch. It is not necessary, but bear CAN solo ANYONE once. This bear is also an insurance policy; if a big scary dragon tries tearing through the lair to find K. Rool, this bear? Gonna fall right on it. Poof. Then Banjos free to warp away a new friend!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 8:44:16 PM #7:	The Krack-Shot Kroc: King K. Rool Let me tell you about guns. Right now, K. Rool has access to Garrus Vakarians abilities, granted to him via Kirby. This allows him some absolutely incredible abilities. First of all, yes, more land mines, ones that can easily be shot out, cause slow whenever someone detonates them, can be shot out every 6 seconds, and have an effective 4.5 meter radius, MUCH larger than any of Gruntys passageways. He also has a neat trick that fries robots, but more importantly, does stun any organic life for a short time in a cool chain lightning kinda deal. Fun at parties! But lets talk weapons. Mass Effect guns are not your ordinary weapons. They are fueled by something called mass accelerators, which does exactly what it says on the tin: takes mass and makes it go really, really fast. Rather than using the force of an explosion, combustion, or something similar, a mass accelerator uses electromagnetic repulsion to shoot out metal slugs at quote supersonic speeds. Not only does this mean that ME guns shoot bullets faster than other bullets, but on impact with a target, these slugs squash and shatter on impact, creating this shredding shrapnel effect designed to not just punch holes in things, but deal maximum structural damage. This is why armor in Mass Effect is divided into three layers: one a kinetic barrier specifically designed to repel bullets until the system fails, avoiding damage altogether, a second, material barrier to actually try to mitigate the damage, and a third made of tech in order to rapidly repair the damage a single bullet could do. They made self-healing armor that has a second energy shield to repel the bullets, and it STILL mows people down like nothing! With all due respect, most armors? They aint cutting it, not even close. Understand that I am UNDERSELLING this if anything, considering the quote If accelerated to a high enough velocity, a simple paint chip can impact with the same destructive force as a nuclear weapon. is in the game and CAN hurt you. K. Rool has an assault rifle full of that. And a sniper rifle. And he can turn invisible. AND Garrus specifically specializes in FURTHER armor-piercing rounds, ones that rend terrain advantages useless and try to poke through cover. Not only can K. Rool pop out of nowhere and fill someone with exploding lead, not ONLY can he camp certain areas where he is GUARANTEED a good sniping position (my favorite being the entrance to Mad Monster Mansion, a big room with a solitary, narrow pathway over lava and then retreat into a spooky graveyard), but he has his regular blunderbuss, too! Now that might not seem all that special, but it can shoot out an exhaust cloud that freezes you in place! And guess what assault rifle does extra damage to frozen targets? On top of this, think of clipping K. Rool? Hes not going down easy! Donkey Kong (famed for punching moons, deadlifting sunken galleons while on top of them, and slamming bananas) once uppercutted him straight through the metal roof of his airship. K. Rool then fell down his entire island (which is a swamp, mountain, amusement park, haunted forest, ice cave, and castle stacked on top of each other, in that order, and he was in a plane hovering well above them), got eaten by sharks, swam out of the swamp, immediately came up to fight Diddy, was blown into the source of his islands energy that exploded WITH him at the center and blew up the entire island and he lived and laughed as he sailed away. The guy can take a hit, like, hes got a Luca Blight series of getting beat up! And that aint his only showing, DK64 seeing him repeat the feat in a boxing match with Hunky Chunky, a 4x sized version of the normally 2000 pound gorilla punching him square in the jaw and launching him into a turnbuckle repeatedly. and then he comes back on death, in the extremely unlikely event that hes not the last one left standing. AND he gets a free shot. With the super sniper rifle, guaranteed sneak attack. This sniper rifle normally kills marines with that super techno hyper shielded armor in one shot. In the BODY. Straight through the eyes? Not a chance in Hell youre gonna live that. A straight up fight, this absolutely is not. This is multiple stages of Hell, friends getting picked off one by one to the various traps in the witchs lair. Worst case you dont buy Kirby, you dont think the regular bear does anything, Sagat barely slows anyone down? Banjo takes out the (literal) biggest threat in an insta-death divebomb, and from there, no one stands up to Garrus gun helmed by the Kremling Kommander. Not with mines literally slowing them, not with him able to turn invisible and live another day, not with a guaranteed shot if, against all odds, Estinien ends up making it to the end. There is no hope. Long live the Kremling Krew. https://youtu.be/QjarPq9dW98 --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970959904] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>The Krack-Shot Kroc: King K. RoolLet me tell you about guns. Right now, K. Rool has access to Garrus Vakarians abilities, granted to him via Kirby. This allows him some absolutely incredible abilities. First of all, yes, more land mines, ones that can easily be shot out, cause slow whenever someone detonates them, can be shot out every 6 seconds, and have an effective 4.5 meter radius, MUCH larger than any of Gruntys passageways. He also has a neat trick that fries robots, but more importantly, does stun any organic life for a short time in a cool chain lightning kinda deal. Fun at parties!But lets talk weapons. Mass Effect guns are not your ordinary weapons. They are fueled by something called mass accelerators, which does exactly what it says on the tin: takes mass and makes it go really, really fast. Rather than using the force of an explosion, combustion, or something similar, a mass accelerator uses electromagnetic repulsion to shoot out metal slugs at quote supersonic speeds. Not only does this mean that ME guns shoot bullets faster than other bullets, but on impact with a target, these slugs squash and shatter on impact, creating this shredding shrapnel effect designed to not just punch holes in things, but deal maximum structural damage. This is why armor in Mass Effect is divided into three layers: one a kinetic barrier specifically designed to repel bullets until the system fails, avoiding damage altogether, a second, material barrier to actually try to mitigate the damage, and a third made of tech in order to rapidly repair the damage a single bullet could do. They made self-healing armor that has a second energy shield to repel the bullets, and it STILL mows people down like nothing! With all due respect, most armors? They aint cutting it, not even close. Understand that I am UNDERSELLING this if anything, considering the quote If accelerated to a high enough velocity, a simple paint chip can impact with the same destructive force as a nuclear weapon. is in the game and CAN hurt you.K. Rool has an assault rifle full of that. And a sniper rifle. And he can turn invisible. AND Garrus specifically specializes in FURTHER armor-piercing rounds, ones that rend terrain advantages useless and try to poke through cover.Not only can K. Rool pop out of nowhere and fill someone with exploding lead, not ONLY can he camp certain areas where he is GUARANTEED a good sniping position (my favorite being the entrance to Mad Monster Mansion, a big room with a solitary, narrow pathway over lava and then retreat into a spooky graveyard), but he has his regular blunderbuss, too! Now that might not seem all that special, but it can shoot out an exhaust cloud that freezes you in place! And guess what assault rifle does extra damage to frozen targets?On top of this, think of clipping K. Rool? Hes not going down easy! Donkey Kong (famed for punching moons, deadlifting sunken galleons while on top of them, and slamming bananas) once uppercutted him straight through the metal roof of his airship. K. Rool then fell down his entire island (which is a swamp, mountain, amusement park, haunted forest, ice cave, and castle stacked on top of each other, in that order, and he was in a plane hovering well above them), got eaten by sharks, swam out of the swamp, immediately came up to fight Diddy, was blown into the source of his islands energy that exploded WITH him at the center and blew up the entire island and he lived and laughed as he sailed away. The guy can take a hit, like, hes got a Luca Blight series of getting beat up! And that aint his only showing, DK64 seeing him repeat the feat in a boxing match with Hunky Chunky, a 4x sized version of the normally 2000 pound gorilla punching him square in the jaw and launching him into a turnbuckle repeatedly. and then he comes back on death, in the extremely unlikely event that hes not the last one left standing. AND he gets a free shot. With the super sniper rifle, guaranteed sneak attack. This sniper rifle normally kills marines with that super techno hyper shielded armor in one shot. In the BODY. Straight through the eyes? Not a chance in Hell youre gonna live that.A straight up fight, this absolutely is not. This is multiple stages of Hell, friends getting picked off one by one to the various traps in the witchs lair. Worst case you dont buy Kirby, you dont think the regular bear does anything, Sagat barely slows anyone down? Banjo takes out the (literal) biggest threat in an insta-death divebomb, and from there, no one stands up to Garrus gun helmed by the Kremling Kommander. Not with mines literally slowing them, not with him able to turn invisible and live another day, not with a guaranteed shot if, against all odds, Estinien ends up making it to the end. There is no hope. Long live the Kremling Krew.https://youtu.be/QjarPq9dW98</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 8:45:33 PM #8:	Initial thoughts: I don't buy that the cannon destruction feat ISN'T a Dragonshadow Dive. Estinien's movements look identical in that cutscene and when he battles Arch-Ultima, the only different things are the Nidhogg face flash (explainable by the camera focus I think) and the camera angles. I think it's much more reasonable to take both as sells on how strong Dragonshadow Dive is than treating one as a High Jump and nothing else, tbqqqqh. Need to read through the arguments more. Just wanted to remark on this immediately because I feel it's misleading hype. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970959926] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Initial thoughts:I don't buy that the cannon destruction feat ISN'T a Dragonshadow Dive. Estinien's movements look identical in that cutscene and when he battles Arch-Ultima, the only different things are the Nidhogg face flash (explainable by the camera focus I think) and the camera angles. I think it's much more reasonable to take both as sells on how strong Dragonshadow Dive is than treating one as a High Jump and nothing else, tbqqqqh.Need to read through the arguments more. Just wanted to remark on this immediately because I feel it's misleading hype.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 8:50:27 PM #9:	I didn't see the super dark magic burst on the cannon jump, so I figured it wasn't a full-blown DSD. That's fine if it is, though. I think Kamek doesn't realize Vrtra shows up where Estinien does. If he thinks Kirby puts himself in a horrible 2v1 far, far away from Banjo, by all means. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970960024] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I didn't see the super dark magic burst on the cannon jump, so I figured it wasn't a full-blown DSD. That's fine if it is, though.I think Kamek doesn't realize Vrtra shows up where Estinien does. If he thinks Kirby puts himself in a horrible 2v1 far, far away from Banjo, by all means.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 8:51:00 PM #10:	--Especially given nobody on his team knows this jump is even coming. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970960031] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>--Especially given nobody on his team knows this jump is even coming.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 8:53:25 PM #11:	Oh yeah, nah, did not realize that. Yeah Estinien still like. Super injured. Vrtra impressive, a little under Chaos Elfilis for me, though. Estinien still take major mondo damage. And then best of luck slowly moving through the booby trapped lair with a clearly pissed off Gael and Vivi taken out, both of them out of their element because the ceilings are too damn small and I get to set up mines and camp anywhere I want for free, and not running into either bear in the process. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970960069] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Oh yeah, nah, did not realize that.Yeah Estinien still like. Super injured. Vrtra impressive, a little under Chaos Elfilis for me, though. Estinien still take major mondo damage.And then best of luck slowly moving through the booby trapped lair with a clearly pissed off Gael and Vivi taken out, both of them out of their element because the ceilings are too damn small and I get to set up mines and camp anywhere I want for free, and not running into either bear in the process.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Fluttershy_Pony 01/19/23 8:53:57 PM #12:	Kamekguy posted... Banjos Wonderwing allows him. "Banjo is allowed" is a compelling argument... --- A not very secret alt account for when Raetsel wants to be a pony <cite>Fluttershy_Pony posted [p:970960078] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Kamekguy posted... </cite><quote>Banjos Wonderwing allows him.</quote>"Banjo is allowed" is a compelling argument...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 8:57:58 PM #13:	You say "he's super injured" just... inherently? After Kirby gets cracked in half, stone form be damned? Aight. I'd also posit that Vrtra, being a large fuckoff dragon, can just start making a way through. If so, he can gladly take point. Gael is also capable of short-range teleportation (much to MANY DS3 players' dismay) and can get around the more obvious booby traps and get close to G.Rool. Sagat can fight him if Gael lets him, but Gael is way faster and has a lightning storm around him just for existing. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970960158] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>You say "he's super injured" just... inherently? After Kirby gets cracked in half, stone form be damned? Aight.I'd also posit that Vrtra, being a large fuckoff dragon, can just start making a way through. If so, he can gladly take point.Gael is also capable of short-range teleportation (much to MANY DS3 players' dismay) and can get around the more obvious booby traps and get close to G.Rool. Sagat can fight him if Gael lets him, but Gael is way faster and has a lightning storm around him just for existing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 8:58:27 PM #14:	Alright, read more. Question: is there a good sniping spot K. Rool can get to within 30 seconds before Estinien lands? Because if Kirby goes out to pick a fight with a wounded (but not anywhere near dead, maybe like, 20-30% injured?) Gael, Vivi and Haurchefant with sniping support...I think Estinien arrives to a dead-ass team (or one close enough to dead that the Dragonshadow Dive finishes them off, as its aoe can friendly fire). At which point, the match is kind of arguable. If no such sniping spot exists, however, things get much more complicated IMO. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970960164] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Alright, read more. Question: is there a good sniping spot K. Rool can get to within 30 seconds before Estinien lands? Because if Kirby goes out to pick a fight with a wounded (but not anywhere near dead, maybe like, 20-30% injured?) Gael, Vivi and Haurchefant with sniping support...I think Estinien arrives to a dead-ass team (or one close enough to dead that the Dragonshadow Dive finishes them off, as its aoe can friendly fire). At which point, the match is kind of arguable. If no such sniping spot exists, however, things get much more complicated IMO.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 8:59:52 PM #15:	trdl23 posted... You say "he's super injured" just... inherently? After Kirby gets cracked in half, stone form be damned? Aight. I'd also posit that Vrtra, being a large fuckoff dragon, can just start making a way through. If so, he can gladly take point. Gael is also capable of short-range teleportation (much to MANY DS3 players' dismay) and can get around the more obvious booby traps and get close to G.Rool. Sagat can fight him if Gael lets him, but Gael is way faster and has a lightning storm around him just for existing. Just to provide a bit of clarification, Gael's lightning storm isn't automatic. It works off his soul-spewing attacks. Any place a soul lands gets marked and tagged by lightning a few seconds later. It's not a huge difference except for the fact it's not random, so opponents can read where the shots will land. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970960189] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>trdl23 posted... </cite><quote>You say "he's super injured" just... inherently? After Kirby gets cracked in half, stone form be damned? Aight.I'd also posit that Vrtra, being a large fuckoff dragon, can just start making a way through. If so, he can gladly take point.Gael is also capable of short-range teleportation (much to MANY DS3 players' dismay) and can get around the more obvious booby traps and get close to G.Rool. Sagat can fight him if Gael lets him, but Gael is way faster and has a lightning storm around him just for existing.</quote>Just to provide a bit of clarification, Gael's lightning storm isn't automatic. It works off his soul-spewing attacks. Any place a soul lands gets marked and tagged by lightning a few seconds later. It's not a huge difference except for the fact it's not random, so opponents can read where the shots will land.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 9:00:44 PM #16:	Ah, that makes SO much more sense. I'm embarrassed I never realized that when I was fighting him! --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970960207] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Ah, that makes SO much more sense. I'm embarrassed I never realized that when I was fighting him!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 9:02:40 PM #17:	Yeah Gael is nice but like. Future gun tho. And he's very clearly just with himself, Vivi, and Harche, especially after Sagat pissed him off x3 combo. And these are tight corridors, like K. Rool would take up the entirety of one. He's not gonna miss with an assault rifle (from the future). As for Sagat's durability. http://www.noe-v.com/images/articles/rf22.jpg Yeah he takes a full clip from that. Does not care. Trading blows with Gael? Can do, and he's got the brute force to beat him back. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970960254] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Yeah Gael is nice but like.Future gun tho.And he's very clearly just with himself, Vivi, and Harche, especially after Sagat pissed him off x3 combo. And these are tight corridors, like K. Rool would take up the entirety of one. He's not gonna miss with an assault rifle (from the future).As for Sagat's durability.http://www.noe-v.com/images/articles/rf22.jpgYeah he takes a full clip from that. Does not care. Trading blows with Gael? Can do, and he's got the brute force to beat him back.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dante 01/19/23 9:05:30 PM #18:	king k rules --- boring and mundane signature Now with more bold! Less Italics due to bold <cite>Dante posted [p:970960315] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>king k rules</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 9:06:29 PM #19:	Do you have a source on that manga Kamek I ask because a LOT of SF mangas are noncanon or dubiously canon and I want to verify. It seems completely in character for Sagat (Zangief, by all reckonings a much weaker dude, parries and breaks a sword by flexing in the SF5 storymode iirc), but just as I factchecked Trdl I'd like to do the same here. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970960332] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Do you have a source on that manga KamekI ask because a LOT of SF mangas are noncanon or dubiously canon and I want to verify. It seems completely in character for Sagat (Zangief, by all reckonings a much weaker dude, parries and breaks a sword by flexing in the SF5 storymode iirc), but just as I factchecked Trdl I'd like to do the same here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 9:07:34 PM #20:	I think 30 seconds is shorter than you think it is, and I also think you're presuming my team just has their thumbs up their asses for that long? Yes, if everyone just sits still to give your team a shooting gallery instead of, er, exploring chambers, and your team can haul ass super fast? And K.Rool has Garrus's level of marksmanship with the kinds of guns he has never even seen, let alone practiced with? My man, shooting guns is difficult! If everything goes your way, maybe your argument has a shot. Far, far too many "ifs" for a reasonable voter. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970960350] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I think 30 seconds is shorter than you think it is, and I also think you're presuming my team just has their thumbs up their asses for that long? Yes, if everyone just sits still to give your team a shooting gallery instead of, er, exploring chambers, and your team can haul ass super fast? And K.Rool has Garrus's level of marksmanship with the kinds of guns he has never even seen, let alone practiced with? My man, shooting guns is difficult! If everything goes your way, maybe your argument has a shot. Far, far too many "ifs" for a reasonable voter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 9:09:25 PM #21:	KanzarisKelshen posted... Alright, read more. Question: is there a good sniping spot K. Rool can get to within 30 seconds before Estinien lands? Because if Kirby goes out to pick a fight with a wounded (but not anywhere near dead, maybe like, 20-30% injured?) Gael, Vivi and Haurchefant with sniping support...I think Estinien arrives to a dead-ass team (or one close enough to dead that the Dragonshadow Dive finishes them off, as its aoe can friendly fire). At which point, the match is kind of arguable. If no such sniping spot exists, however, things get much more complicated IMO. The thing is basically that K. Rool and Kirbo are going in different directions. If you think of Grunty's Lair, it's a big-ass mountain with random biomes in it all stacked on top of one another. Kirby is going out the top and around to the enemy team, because living tremendous fall damage is a thing he can do and, y'know, flight. K. Rool and Banjo are going the long way, toward the center. The plan is to reach this room: https://i.gyazo.com/90a3ffa4b6cf6b2abfe7df429048ccc4.jpg The only entrance to it from the outside is the door on the left. Grunty's Lair is labyrinthine, but Banjo absolutely knows the way through it. K. Rool's ideal spot is the door on the right (where the spooky eyes are), which leads to a graveyard where he can fall back and play cover shooter. Also there's just big pools of lava down there so, y'know. With Sagat to cover them, I don't see the point where K Rool doesn't reach the spot. Or find a nice one in general since, y'know. Can turn invisible. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970960390] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>KanzarisKelshen posted... </cite><quote>Alright, read more. Question: is there a good sniping spot K. Rool can get to within 30 seconds before Estinien lands? Because if Kirby goes out to pick a fight with a wounded (but not anywhere near dead, maybe like, 20-30% injured?) Gael, Vivi and Haurchefant with sniping support...I think Estinien arrives to a dead-ass team (or one close enough to dead that the Dragonshadow Dive finishes them off, as its aoe can friendly fire). At which point, the match is kind of arguable. If no such sniping spot exists, however, things get much more complicated IMO.</quote>The thing is basically that K. Rool and Kirbo are going in different directions. If you think of Grunty's Lair, it's a big-ass mountain with random biomes in it all stacked on top of one another. Kirby is going out the top and around to the enemy team, because living tremendous fall damage is a thing he can do and, y'know, flight. K. Rool and Banjo are going the long way, toward the center. The plan is to reach this room:https://i.gyazo.com/90a3ffa4b6cf6b2abfe7df429048ccc4.jpgThe only entrance to it from the outside is the door on the left. Grunty's Lair is labyrinthine, but Banjo absolutely knows the way through it. K. Rool's ideal spot is the door on the right (where the spooky eyes are), which leads to a graveyard where he can fall back and play cover shooter. Also there's just big pools of lava down there so, y'know.With Sagat to cover them, I don't see the point where K Rool doesn't reach the spot. Or find a nice one in general since, y'know. Can turn invisible.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 9:12:20 PM #22:	You know, I should head off this ridiculous Banjo Assassination idea off at the pass. If you are so inclined to give Kamek the benefit of all of the doubts (because, as improbable as it is for his plan to work, it is very creative and entertaining), and Banjo gets close enough to try and take someone down... Haurchefant's greatest character moment was him going "Get Down Mr. President" for the WoL and taking the L. Banjo will end up deleting a gray-haired elf boy in his best-cast scenario. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970960445] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>You know, I should head off this ridiculous Banjo Assassination idea off at the pass.If you are so inclined to give Kamek the benefit of all of the doubts (because, as improbable as it is for his plan to work, it is very creative and entertaining), and Banjo gets close enough to try and take someone down...Haurchefant's greatest character moment was him going "Get Down Mr. President" for the WoL and taking the L. Banjo will end up deleting a gray-haired elf boy in his best-cast scenario.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroicGammaRay 01/19/23 9:14:23 PM #23:	k. rool utterly devastating here <cite>HeroicGammaRay posted [p:970960481] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>k. rool utterly devastating here</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 9:19:32 PM #24:	Kazooie can make Banjo invincible for like 40 seconds (20 Wonderwing feathers, each one lasts about 2 seconds). This is video game cheat code-ass invincibility that he is required to use at points. Like, big spooky dragon go BWAR and try to hit him, oh no he go right through. I am also arguing the beak bomb, which... https://youtu.be/DY6tY5Opy2c Is silly. Please understand, I am not asking Banjo to LIVE. I am asking him to throw his corpse directly at a very large target. One that will likely be alive while Harchefant is not as I just don't see him or Vivi making it through a minefield. Banjo knows what he's here for; to die in a hilarious manner that will please God enough to defeat his enemy for him. He's done that once before! --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970960560] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Kazooie can make Banjo invincible for like 40 seconds (20 Wonderwing feathers, each one lasts about 2 seconds).This is video game cheat code-ass invincibility that he is required to use at points. Like, big spooky dragon go BWAR and try to hit him, oh no he go right through.I am also arguing the beak bomb, which...https://youtu.be/DY6tY5Opy2cIs silly.Please understand, I am not asking Banjo to LIVE. I am asking him to throw his corpse directly at a very large target. One that will likely be alive while Harchefant is not as I just don't see him or Vivi making it through a minefield. Banjo knows what he's here for; to die in a hilarious manner that will please God enough to defeat his enemy for him. He's done that once before!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 9:22:13 PM #25:	OK, so...just to organize my thoughts a little, here is what I see so far: -Will Gael and friends wait for Estinien to land? Caution suggests it's a smart thing to wait for Vrtra, their man tank, to return, and time is on their side so they have reasons to camp. At the same time, though, being in position to assist Estinien when he comes down could turn this match from somewhat debatable into a total stomp. -The distance from the top to the bottom of Grunty's lair isn't small. I mentioned that it'd take like 20 seconds to land on a freefall in the other topic and I stand by it. If Gael and friends are camping this means Kirby comes down on them and Estinien basically frags his entire team (bar maybe Gael), since I don't really trust them to tank a Dragonshadow Dive. Kirby might die off this or he might not. It's tough to say. Zenos mode helps him to avoid horrible death, but is it reliable enough to work? I don't know if Kirby ever inherits 'powerups' when he copies someone -- Zenos' resonance is not a natural ability of his but one that was artificially implanted. If I could get some confirmation on this point that'd be great. -Estinien is an absolute beast. Kirby has lifesteal, but the issue is Estinien does too. His Nidhogg Combo which he uses when he gets serious against Arch-Ultima passively restores his health, and on top of that he has Horrid Roar. In XIV PvP, Horrid Roar is a lightly damaging attack that also happens to debuff the damage dealt by enemies in close proximity to the dragoon by 50%, with roughly a 40% uptime if you're consistent about keeping it up. It won't help vs K. Rool much, but Kirby is a different kettle of fish. All Estinien has to do is hang on until Kirby's time is up and then he has a very real chance of just bulldozing through Sagat and the dynamic duo. -The argument for Banjo just kamikaze-bombing Vrtra is real. The question is, can Vrtra range him out until the Wonderwings run out? If he does, I think him and Estinien have a real chance of winning even if the rest of their team somehow dies. -How good are Kirby's copying abilities these days? If K. Rool gets Garrus' guns as Kamek says he does he's an absolute menace that might unironically carry. If he gets 'garrus-y guns' instead of the genuine article that's a lot harder for me to buy into, though. Need some feats here. Overall, a really interesting match. Need to think about it and hear more arguments for sure. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970960606] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>OK, so...just to organize my thoughts a little, here is what I see so far:-Will Gael and friends wait for Estinien to land? Caution suggests it's a smart thing to wait for Vrtra, their man tank, to return, and time is on their side so they have reasons to camp. At the same time, though, being in position to assist Estinien when he comes down could turn this match from somewhat debatable into a total stomp.-The distance from the top to the bottom of Grunty's lair isn't small. I mentioned that it'd take like 20 seconds to land on a freefall in the other topic and I stand by it. If Gael and friends are camping this means Kirby comes down on them and Estinien basically frags his entire team (bar maybe Gael), since I don't really trust them to tank a Dragonshadow Dive. Kirby might die off this or he might not. It's tough to say. Zenos mode helps him to avoid horrible death, but is it reliable enough to work? I don't know if Kirby ever inherits 'powerups' when he copies someone -- Zenos' resonance is not a natural ability of his but one that was artificially implanted. If I could get some confirmation on this point that'd be great.-Estinien is an absolute beast. Kirby has lifesteal, but the issue is Estinien does too. His Nidhogg Combo which he uses when he gets serious against Arch-Ultima passively restores his health, and on top of that he has Horrid Roar. In XIV PvP, Horrid Roar is a lightly damaging attack that also happens to debuff the damage dealt by enemies in close proximity to the dragoon by 50%, with roughly a 40% uptime if you're consistent about keeping it up. It won't help vs K. Rool much, but Kirby is a different kettle of fish. All Estinien has to do is hang on until Kirby's time is up and then he has a very real chance of just bulldozing through Sagat and the dynamic duo.-The argument for Banjo just kamikaze-bombing Vrtra is real. The question is, can Vrtra range him out until the Wonderwings run out? If he does, I think him and Estinien have a real chance of winning even if the rest of their team somehow dies.-How good are Kirby's copying abilities these days? If K. Rool gets Garrus' guns as Kamek says he does he's an absolute menace that might unironically carry. If he gets 'garrus-y guns' instead of the genuine article that's a lot harder for me to buy into, though. Need some feats here.Overall, a really interesting match. Need to think about it and hear more arguments for sure.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv 01/19/23 9:26:41 PM #26:	Banjo this rules. --- Board 8's Voice of Reason https://i.imgur.com/AWY4xHy.jpg <cite>Eddv posted [p:970960692] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Banjothis rules.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 9:32:51 PM #27:	KanzarisKelshen posted... -How good are Kirby's copying abilities these days? If K. Rool gets Garrus' guns as Kamek says he does he's an absolute menace that might unironically carry. If he gets 'garrus-y guns' instead of the genuine article that's a lot harder for me to buy into, though. Need some feats here. I actually detail this in our topic! https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80317205/970952341 The short version is "he copied the soul of a guy that ANOTHER guy absorbed to use as an attack. And also all of the other attacks sans setting an entire room on fire. AND lifesteal and teleporting". Copy ability got GOOD. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970960813] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>KanzarisKelshen posted... </cite><quote>-How good are Kirby's copying abilities these days? If K. Rool gets Garrus' guns as Kamek says he does he's an absolute menace that might unironically carry. If he gets 'garrus-y guns' instead of the genuine article that's a lot harder for me to buy into, though. Need some feats here.</quote>I actually detail this in our topic!https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80317205/970952341The short version is "he copied the soul of a guy that ANOTHER guy absorbed to use as an attack. And also all of the other attacks sans setting an entire room on fire. AND lifesteal and teleporting".Copy ability got GOOD.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN 01/19/23 9:40:30 PM #28:	knower roolz --- Kneel... or you will be knelt <cite>NFUN posted [p:970960930] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>knower roolz</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 9:42:32 PM #29:	OK, so based on that, I'm tempted to say Kirby gets probably...everything from base form Zenos except his multihit limit break (the one that flat out oneshots you unavoidably). I don't think he gets Protostar from Shinryu mode, and maybe he doesn't get his 'ultimate' attacks (Hypernova, Judgement Bolt, maaaybe the tornado?), except for Tidal Wave which is literally Shinryu's iconic ability. This still leaves Kirby with Zenos' Resonance and avatar, the shitwrecking capabilities of Veil Asunder, teleportation, forcefields, the whole nine yards except Zenos' base parameters (I think). That's a package I don't think Estinien can beat in a mano a mano, considering 2v1ing Zenos himself failed -- he has to stall Kirby out until he dies. Can he do it? Probably, yeah. But then he has to contend with Garrus' guns, which K. Rool absolutely does get and whoa nelly, that is one SPICY meatball. No chance of beating that unless Vrtra survives the Banjo kamikaze attempt. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970960977] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>OK, so based on that, I'm tempted to say Kirby gets probably...everything from base form Zenos except his multihit limit break (the one that flat out oneshots you unavoidably). I don't think he gets Protostar from Shinryu mode, and maybe he doesn't get his 'ultimate' attacks (Hypernova, Judgement Bolt, maaaybe the tornado?), except for Tidal Wave which is literally Shinryu's iconic ability. This still leaves Kirby with Zenos' Resonance and avatar, the shitwrecking capabilities of Veil Asunder, teleportation, forcefields, the whole nine yards except Zenos' base parameters (I think). That's a package I don't think Estinien can beat in a mano a mano, considering 2v1ing Zenos himself failed -- he has to stall Kirby out until he dies. Can he do it? Probably, yeah. But then he has to contend with Garrus' guns, which K. Rool absolutely does get and whoa nelly, that is one SPICY meatball. No chance of beating that unless Vrtra survives the Banjo kamikaze attempt.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 01/19/23 9:51:34 PM #30:	jesus christ this is hilarious random bear that will instant KO the first person to touch it. Banjo can also self-sacrifice to instant KO anyone on the opposing team K Rool has Garrus weapons AND a free 2nd life Kirby is being attacked from the sky BUT also has precog powers like team Final Fantasy XIV might have better raw power but team cartoon physics just has so much random nonsense on their side and between the tight hallways and team XIV just being generally bigger, I feel like they struggle more here, particularly in avoiding contact with THE BEARS ~~(also no offense to all the work that's gone into this but how many FFXIV characters are in this game? In 2 matches we've seen 4 already and last I checked there was only like 20 characters total)~~ KanzarisKelshen posted... -How good are Kirby's copying abilities these days? If K. Rool gets Garrus' guns as Kamek says he does he's an absolute menace that might unironically carry. If he gets 'garrus-y guns' instead of the genuine article that's a lot harder for me to buy into, though. Need some feats here. so essentially the copying gets better and better each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNK7pa0rsCA this is a basic overview of Kirby after he acquires Morpho Knight's powers, and whereas years back he might've just gotten a nice sword, now he gets the full extent of MK's abilities. His weapon, his armor, his combos, his fire and lightning and confusion powers, his weird ghost summons, his wings, his teleportation and his health steal. all this to say, yeah, K. Rool would be getting Garrus' guns, and it would be a huge fuckin mess --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:970961121] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>jesus christ this is hilariousrandom bear that will instant KO the first person to touch it. Banjo can also self-sacrifice to instant KO anyone on the opposing teamK Rool has Garrus weapons AND a free 2nd lifeKirby is being attacked from the sky BUT also has precog powerslike team Final Fantasy XIV might have better raw power but team cartoon physics just has so much random nonsense on their side and between the tight hallways and team XIV just being generally bigger, I feel like they struggle more here, particularly in avoiding contact with THE BEARS (also no offense to all the work that's gone into this but how many FFXIV characters are in this game? In 2 matches we've seen 4 already and last I checked there was only like 20 characters total)KanzarisKelshen posted... </cite><quote>-How good are Kirby's copying abilities these days? If K. Rool gets Garrus' guns as Kamek says he does he's an absolute menace that might unironically carry. If he gets 'garrus-y guns' instead of the genuine article that's a lot harder for me to buy into, though. Need some feats here.</quote>so essentially the copying gets better and better each gamehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNK7pa0rsCAthis is a basic overview of Kirby after he acquires Morpho Knight's powers, and whereas years back he might've just gotten a nice sword, now he gets the full extent of MK's abilities. His weapon, his armor, his combos, his fire and lightning and confusion powers, his weird ghost summons, his wings, his teleportation and his health steal. all this to say, yeah, K. Rool would be getting Garrus' guns, and it would be a huge fuckin mess</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 01/19/23 9:53:17 PM #31:	goddamn I need to start refreshing before posting --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:970961145] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>goddamn I need to start refreshing before posting</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 01/19/23 9:53:46 PM #32:	anyway bears, beets, battlestar galactica --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:970961149] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>anyway bears, beets, battlestar galactica</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 9:58:27 PM #33:	~~(also no offense to all the work that's gone into this but how many FFXIV characters are in this game? In 2 matches we've seen 4 already and last I checked there was only like 20 characters total)~~ Admins of old gave us like two thirds of the ff7 player party and sephiroth Let he who is without a pet final fantasy cast the first stone (but more seriously, we just picked characters we loved and made builds out of them. We plan to diversify the merc pool when we're not picking teams for ourselves.) --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970961241] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote><quote>(also no offense to all the work that's gone into this but how many FFXIV characters are in this game? In 2 matches we've seen 4 already and last I checked there was only like 20 characters total)</quote>Admins of old gave us like two thirds of the ff7 player party and sephirothLet he who is without a pet final fantasy cast the first stone(but more seriously, we just picked characters we loved and made builds out of them. We plan to diversify the merc pool when we're not picking teams for ourselves.)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 10:07:17 PM #34:	I think my arguing doesn't matter here anymore but fuck it: Why is everyone arguing that K. Rool having extremely cool guns equates to K. Rool being able to ue extremely cool guns as well as the original when, like I said earlier, he has never shot a "real" gun that we've ever seen. He gets to be "competent" with the form, not "expert." --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970961400] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I think my arguing doesn't matter here anymore but fuck it:Why is everyone arguing that K. Rool having extremely cool guns equates to K. Rool being able to ue extremely cool guns as well as the original when, like I said earlier, he has never shot a "real" gun that we've ever seen.He gets to be "competent" with the form, not "expert."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 10:12:34 PM #35:	trdl23 posted... I think my arguing doesn't matter here anymore but fuck it: Why is everyone arguing that K. Rool having extremely cool guns equates to K. Rool being able to ue extremely cool guns as well as the original when, like I said earlier, he has never shot a "real" gun that we've ever seen. He gets to be "competent" with the form, not "expert." This is actually fair and I am not sure how good K. Rool's marksmanship is. Does he have any feats for it? --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970961504] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>trdl23 posted... </cite><quote>I think my arguing doesn't matter here anymore but fuck it:Why is everyone arguing that K. Rool having extremely cool guns equates to K. Rool being able to ue extremely cool guns as well as the original when, like I said earlier, he has never shot a "real" gun that we've ever seen.He gets to be "competent" with the form, not "expert."</quote>This is actually fair and I am not sure how good K. Rool's marksmanship is. Does he have any feats for it?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 10:25:53 PM #36:	I do think he can handle recoil from a gun very well. His blunderbuss is an actual cannon, and he can shoot it rapidly, sometimes three cannonballs in less than a second. Stability is not gonna be a problem for him. Nor is being unfamiliar with tech; K. Rool invented a robot that used DK and Diddy's brain waves to fuel it out of nothing but his wife's pots and pans. Marksmanship... little more questionable. With that said, he does have very good aim when hitting Diddy with a jetpack out of the sky in Donkey Kong 64, with his projectile of choice being... a boxing glove he's throwing like a boomerang. Terrain mitigates these weaknesses a LOT, though. Very predictable openings for K Rool to snipe, lots of tight corridors, assault rifle mitigates a lot of the risk because that's a lotta bullets and he just has to keep the gun steady, CAN DO THERE. And of course, the 100% free shot he gets on respawn. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970961741] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I do think he can handle recoil from a gun very well. His blunderbuss is an actual cannon, and he can shoot it rapidly, sometimes three cannonballs in less than a second. Stability is not gonna be a problem for him. Nor is being unfamiliar with tech; K. Rool invented a robot that used DK and Diddy's brain waves to fuel it out of nothing but his wife's pots and pans.Marksmanship... little more questionable. With that said, he does have very good aim when hitting Diddy with a jetpack out of the sky in Donkey Kong 64, with his projectile of choice being... a boxing glove he's throwing like a boomerang.Terrain mitigates these weaknesses a LOT, though. Very predictable openings for K Rool to snipe, lots of tight corridors, assault rifle mitigates a lot of the risk because that's a lotta bullets and he just has to keep the gun steady, CAN DO THERE. And of course, the 100% free shot he gets on respawn.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/19/23 10:27:19 PM #37:	Kamekguy posted... I do think he can handle recoil from a gun very well. His blunderbuss is an actual cannon, and he can shoot it rapidly, sometimes three cannonballs in less than a second. Stability is not gonna be a problem for him. Nor is being unfamiliar with tech; K. Rool invented a robot that used DK and Diddy's brain waves to fuel it out of nothing but his wife's pots and pans. Marksmanship... little more questionable. With that said, he does have very good aim when hitting Diddy with a jetpack out of the sky in Donkey Kong 64, with his projectile of choice being... a boxing glove he's throwing like a boomerang. Terrain mitigates these weaknesses a LOT, though. Very predictable openings for K Rool to snipe, lots of tight corridors, assault rifle mitigates a lot of the risk because that's a lotta bullets and he just has to keep the gun steady, CAN DO THERE. And of course, the 100% free shot he gets on respawn. I actually don't remember the Diddy snipe, do you have a vid of it? That might just be the difference maker for me. Estinien's good for dealing with spray n pray cause he's very acrobatic, but precise shooting is another story because I don't know if he can just block an accelerated shot. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970961767] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Kamekguy posted... </cite><quote>I do think he can handle recoil from a gun very well. His blunderbuss is an actual cannon, and he can shoot it rapidly, sometimes three cannonballs in less than a second. Stability is not gonna be a problem for him. Nor is being unfamiliar with tech; K. Rool invented a robot that used DK and Diddy's brain waves to fuel it out of nothing but his wife's pots and pans.Marksmanship... little more questionable. With that said, he does have very good aim when hitting Diddy with a jetpack out of the sky in Donkey Kong 64, with his projectile of choice being... a boxing glove he's throwing like a boomerang.Terrain mitigates these weaknesses a LOT, though. Very predictable openings for K Rool to snipe, lots of tight corridors, assault rifle mitigates a lot of the risk because that's a lotta bullets and he just has to keep the gun steady, CAN DO THERE. And of course, the 100% free shot he gets on respawn.</quote>I actually don't remember the Diddy snipe, do you have a vid of it? That might just be the difference maker for me. Estinien's good for dealing with spray n pray cause he's very acrobatic, but precise shooting is another story because I don't know if he can just block an accelerated shot.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 10:43:01 PM #38:	... okay so it's actually much worse than I remember. Albeit he IS throwing a boxing glove trying to read a monkey with a jetpack's movements which, y'know. I would imagine aiming a gun is easier, but... yeah it's using N64-era tracking your movements. You can imagine it's goofy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjKLiXdOkpY#t=3m55s&ab_channel=VGamingJunkie The only other example I can think of is Barrel Blast, where the pineapple launcher essentially works like a Red Shell. It's... more than most people get? Like, all the kongs are actually trained in their stupid fruit guns WITH sniper rifles, as is Krusha the Kremling. ... I should emphasize here that his mines cause slow and have a detonation range far larger than the entryways in Grunty's lair are wide. And I certainly don't think he's bad enough to miss a free shot. I do not doubt K Rool is a worse shot than Garrus - of course he is - but everything (mines, invisibility, slowing, small passages, Sagat) is set to ensure that he gets a solid line of sight and a FAR easier time. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970961992] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>... okay so it's actually much worse than I remember. Albeit he IS throwing a boxing glove trying to read a monkey with a jetpack's movements which, y'know. I would imagine aiming a gun is easier, but... yeah it's using N64-era tracking your movements. You can imagine it's goofy.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjKLiXdOkpY#t=3m55s&ab_channel=VGamingJunkieThe only other example I can think of is Barrel Blast, where the pineapple launcher essentially works like a Red Shell. It's... more than most people get? Like, all the kongs are actually trained in their stupid fruit guns WITH sniper rifles, as is Krusha the Kremling.... I should emphasize here that his mines cause slow and have a detonation range far larger than the entryways in Grunty's lair are wide. And I certainly don't think he's bad enough to miss a free shot. I do not doubt K Rool is a worse shot than Garrus - of course he is - but everything (mines, invisibility, slowing, small passages, Sagat) is set to ensure that he gets a solid line of sight and a FAR easier time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 10:45:58 PM #39:	Kamekguy posted... I would imagine aiming a gun is easier Have you ever shot a gun before? Legitimately asking. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970962035] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Kamekguy posted... </cite><quote>I would imagine aiming a gun is easier</quote>Have you ever shot a gun before? Legitimately asking.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/19/23 10:50:17 PM #40:	I have. It was rather awful. I am absolutely not calling it easy. But I am comparing it to throwing a boxing glove off of your hand at a monkey with a jetpack and ensuring it boomerangs back to your wrist with this weird sidearm curve. Which I imagine is also rather awful. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970962097] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I have. It was rather awful. I am absolutely not calling it easy.But I am comparing it to throwing a boxing glove off of your hand at a monkey with a jetpack and ensuring it boomerangs back to your wrist with this weird sidearm curve. Which I imagine is also rather awful.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 01/19/23 11:30:14 PM #41:	Oh without a doubt. I'm just saying the skills hardly relate to each other. Baking a delicious cake and grilling a $200 steak to perfection are both difficult, but I would not expect a master of one to be able to do the other, even though it's still "cooking food." --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:970962627] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>Oh without a doubt. I'm just saying the skills hardly relate to each other.Baking a delicious cake and grilling a $200 steak to perfection are both difficult, but I would not expect a master of one to be able to do the other, even though it's still "cooking food."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
StealThisSheen 01/19/23 11:58:12 PM #42:	There are Kremlings with actual sniper rifles in... DKC3? So, at the very least, K. Rool is familiar with them. EDIT: Well, they shoot fireballs and not bullets, but the aiming and everything is there. --- Seplito Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! <cite>StealThisSheen posted [p:970962972] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>There are Kremlings with actual sniper rifles in... DKC3? So, at the very least, K. Rool is familiar with them.EDIT: Well, they shoot fireballs and not bullets, but the aiming and everything is there.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN 01/20/23 1:05:38 PM #43:	trdl23 posted... I think my arguing doesn't matter here anymore but fuck it: Why is everyone arguing that K. Rool having extremely cool guns equates to K. Rool being able to ue extremely cool guns as well as the original when, like I said earlier, he has never shot a "real" gun that we've ever seen. He gets to be "competent" with the form, not "expert." he's competent at using garrus's skills. if garrus is fantastic at shooting k rool will be at least pretty good. reads like a 70% multiplier --- Kneel... or you will be knelt <cite>NFUN posted [p:970972177] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>trdl23 posted... </cite><quote>I think my arguing doesn't matter here anymore but fuck it:Why is everyone arguing that K. Rool having extremely cool guns equates to K. Rool being able to ue extremely cool guns as well as the original when, like I said earlier, he has never shot a "real" gun that we've ever seen.He gets to be "competent" with the form, not "expert."</quote>he's competent at using garrus's skills. if garrus is fantastic at shooting k rool will be at least pretty good. reads like a 70% multiplier </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/20/23 1:31:50 PM #44:	More thoughts as I percolate this match: -If Gael and friends start moving into the lair immediately, it's likely Kirby finds no one before Estinien comes down. This means it's him 1v2 vs Estinien and Vrtra. -Grunty's Lair feels too small at baseline for Vrtra. He can smash his way in, but that severely limits his mobility and makes him vulnerable to bearing. He's not going to be a great tank here, more fire support. It's the best way to avoid a death that would cripple his team, and Vrtra is smart enough to know he's the heavy hitter tbqh. -This fight swings based on whether you buy Banjo getting Vrtra or not. I don't think K. Rool has the skills to successfully kill Vrtra, even though he has the firepower. There's reason to think Banjo'll hear Vrtra's dragonroar on arrival and decide to save himself for the big scary thing but it's not going to be an easy job. Building up a killzone with one way in means few chances to roam and catch Vrtra unawares. I don't know how he gets past Gael and Estinien without burning Wonderwings, or accidentally touching one of them. Do I take K.Rool, Sagat and Kazooie with a major ambush advantage (but no mines, Vivi can blow those up imo) over Estinien, Vivi and Gael (plus I guess Haurchefant bodyguarding Vivi)? Tough question. -If Vrtra dies, K. Rool will 100% manage to kill Estinien with the sneak attack. I don't think K. Rool is an awesome marksman, but he gets all the time in the world to line up his sneak attack shot and headshot the unsuspecting dragoon. He probably doesn't kill Estinien on his first life, but the second life is another kettle of fish. This is a fascinating matchup. The two teams are doing very different things. Kamek's team has a major on paper power disadvantage, but the major extra aoe from Overload helps a lot to thin the herd and give Sagat (and to a lesser extent, Kazooie) the chance to do some damage. It's a swingy match -- if Gael falls, then Haurchefant and Vivi probably fall soon after. If Banjo fails, then Vrtra can maul everyone, and so on and so forth. I'll have a vote tonight but I need to think about this some more still. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970972689] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>More thoughts as I percolate this match:-If Gael and friends start moving into the lair immediately, it's likely Kirby finds no one before Estinien comes down. This means it's him 1v2 vs Estinien and Vrtra.-Grunty's Lair feels too small at baseline for Vrtra. He can smash his way in, but that severely limits his mobility and makes him vulnerable to bearing. He's not going to be a great tank here, more fire support. It's the best way to avoid a death that would cripple his team, and Vrtra is smart enough to know he's the heavy hitter tbqh.-This fight swings based on whether you buy Banjo getting Vrtra or not. I don't think K. Rool has the skills to successfully kill Vrtra, even though he has the firepower. There's reason to think Banjo'll hear Vrtra's dragonroar on arrival and decide to save himself for the big scary thing but it's not going to be an easy job. Building up a killzone with one way in means few chances to roam and catch Vrtra unawares. I don't know how he gets past Gael and Estinien without burning Wonderwings, or accidentally touching one of them. Do I take K.Rool, Sagat and Kazooie with a major ambush advantage (but no mines, Vivi can blow those up imo) over Estinien, Vivi and Gael (plus I guess Haurchefant bodyguarding Vivi)? Tough question.-If Vrtra dies, K. Rool will 100% manage to kill Estinien with the sneak attack. I don't think K. Rool is an awesome marksman, but he gets all the time in the world to line up his sneak attack shot and headshot the unsuspecting dragoon. He probably doesn't kill Estinien on his first life, but the second life is another kettle of fish.This is a fascinating matchup. The two teams are doing very different things. Kamek's team has a major on paper power disadvantage, but the major extra aoe from Overload helps a lot to thin the herd and give Sagat (and to a lesser extent, Kazooie) the chance to do some damage. It's a swingy match -- if Gael falls, then Haurchefant and Vivi probably fall soon after. If Banjo fails, then Vrtra can maul everyone, and so on and so forth. I'll have a vote tonight but I need to think about this some more still.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZeeksFire 01/20/23 1:49:43 PM #45:	I can't see Banjo being able to get in melee with Vrtra from my point of view, after all, he mechanically can't get both flight and invincibility at the same time. The problem would be combat location. I personally can't see Kirby surviving, going as a draconic styled beast within the first 30 to get the most value in 5 minutes will backfire, since none of the transformations increase his defenses. I'll need to think more on it, but rule 1 of knockout bear has the flaw of everyone knows of knockout bear rules. <cite>ZeeksFire posted [p:970973040] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I can't see Banjo being able to get in melee with Vrtra from my point of view, after all, he mechanically can't get both flight and invincibility at the same time. The problem would be combat location. I personally can't see Kirby surviving, going as a draconic styled beast within the first 30 to get the most value in 5 minutes will backfire, since none of the transformations increase his defenses. I'll need to think more on it, but rule 1 of knockout bear has the flaw of everyone knows of knockout bear rules.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/20/23 1:58:09 PM #46:	So to better sell this, I'd like to think that Gael is probably pissed off from Sagat shooting him in the face. I doubt he will be calm, and thus, I think his journey through the lair will be one where he's taking point. If that is the case, I absolutely think he's running into mines Kazooie's set up. The main thing is that Sagat is always gonna be in front of Banjo until it's the bear's time to shine. As much as I'd love to argue that Vivi contributes something here... nah fam. K. Rool doesn't need to be a great shot, Vivi is a clumsy child who trips and falls over at the best of times. The moment that guy stops to cast a spell, he's getting filled with lead. I'd like to also emphasize that the Black Widow is not a single-shot sniper - it can shoot out three rounds in succession before needing more fuel. It's a VERY generous piece of tech that honestly gives Garrus a scary amount of wiggle room. With K Rool, I think (considering he is copying Kirby's ability to be Garrus, Kirbo naturally becomes skilled enough to use weapon, etc.) he can manage to shoot a child who's already paranoid about mines littered all over and Gael's probably tripped at least one for them to realize OH SHIT, MINES. Sagat is just a solid wall and K Rool and Banjo hold a range advantage, Kazooie specifically having the Amaze-O-Gaze goggles to zoom in and act as a sniper's lens. This is coupled with all of her eggs having homing properties, and some of them (specifically grenade and ice) actually being rather useful! Clockwork Kazooie Eggs ensure that they'll know exactly when Team Gael is coming, and keep in mind, this is a group that is now paranoid because there have been mines all over, one of the rooms was just full of piranhas for no reason, there is an instant death bear just wandering around that this asshole bird has sent toward them - they're gonna be in rough shape. And all K Rool has to do is wait for a pair of beady yellow eyes to come out of one entrance, and it's over. Harche can't GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT faster than the future gun with superbullets, Gael is now at a huge disadvantage vs Sagat as Kazooie can camp at K Rool's safe distance and shoot eggs that'll freeze him in place for a second (they've frozen larger, such as this octopus: https://banjokazooie.fandom.com/wiki/Inky who Banjo is a bit smaller than the size of its head) and then Sagat shatters him. And as for Kirbo, I think he deals more damage to Est than he manages to heal up, at the very least. Like, Kirby's reaching his timer and dying of old age, absolutely. At which point it's gonna take Estinien a loooong time to get through, possibly with more traps already set, Vrtra having to take things verrry carefully to avoid the RANDOM BEAR. Like, there is no way this fight isn't staggered into three separate encounters (Kirby Vs Est, Gael Vivi and Harche Vs Sagat Kazooie K Rool, Est and Vrtra Vs K Rool and Banjo/Sagat), and there's zero reason for Banjo to be put in harm's way. Even if a wonderwing is necessary once, it's easy to turn on and off on command, burning through 4 seconds to avoid one of Vivi's spells isn't going to cost him, he's gonna land his corpse on Vrtra in 36 seconds as well as he would 40. He's hit Grunty mid-flight on her broomstick before with the Beak Bomb, and while Grunty was just cruisin', she was also in the open air and is a MUCH smaller target than big dragon! --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970973206] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>So to better sell this, I'd like to think that Gael is probably pissed off from Sagat shooting him in the face. I doubt he will be calm, and thus, I think his journey through the lair will be one where he's taking point. If that is the case, I absolutely think he's running into mines Kazooie's set up.The main thing is that Sagat is always gonna be in front of Banjo until it's the bear's time to shine. As much as I'd love to argue that Vivi contributes something here... nah fam. K. Rool doesn't need to be a great shot, Vivi is a clumsy child who trips and falls over at the best of times. The moment that guy stops to cast a spell, he's getting filled with lead. I'd like to also emphasize that the Black Widow is not a single-shot sniper - it can shoot out three rounds in succession before needing more fuel. It's a VERY generous piece of tech that honestly gives Garrus a scary amount of wiggle room. With K Rool, I think (considering he is copying Kirby's ability to be Garrus, Kirbo naturally becomes skilled enough to use weapon, etc.) he can manage to shoot a child who's already paranoid about mines littered all over and Gael's probably tripped at least one for them to realize OH SHIT, MINES.Sagat is just a solid wall and K Rool and Banjo hold a range advantage, Kazooie specifically having the Amaze-O-Gaze goggles to zoom in and act as a sniper's lens. This is coupled with all of her eggs having homing properties, and some of them (specifically grenade and ice) actually being rather useful! Clockwork Kazooie Eggs ensure that they'll know exactly when Team Gael is coming, and keep in mind, this is a group that is now paranoid because there have been mines all over, one of the rooms was just full of piranhas for no reason, there is an instant death bear just wandering around that this asshole bird has sent toward them - they're gonna be in rough shape. And all K Rool has to do is wait for a pair of beady yellow eyes to come out of one entrance, and it's over. Harche can't GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT faster than the future gun with superbullets, Gael is now at a huge disadvantage vs Sagat as Kazooie can camp at K Rool's safe distance and shoot eggs that'll freeze him in place for a second (they've frozen larger, such as this octopus: https://banjokazooie.fandom.com/wiki/Inky who Banjo is a bit smaller than the size of its head) and then Sagat shatters him.And as for Kirbo, I think he deals more damage to Est than he manages to heal up, at the very least. Like, Kirby's reaching his timer and dying of old age, absolutely. At which point it's gonna take Estinien a loooong time to get through, possibly with more traps already set, Vrtra having to take things verrry carefully to avoid the RANDOM BEAR. Like, there is no way this fight isn't staggered into three separate encounters (Kirby Vs Est, Gael Vivi and Harche Vs Sagat Kazooie K Rool, Est and Vrtra Vs K Rool and Banjo/Sagat), and there's zero reason for Banjo to be put in harm's way. Even if a wonderwing is necessary once, it's easy to turn on and off on command, burning through 4 seconds to avoid one of Vivi's spells isn't going to cost him, he's gonna land his corpse on Vrtra in 36 seconds as well as he would 40. He's hit Grunty mid-flight on her broomstick before with the Beak Bomb, and while Grunty was just cruisin', she was also in the open air and is a MUCH smaller target than big dragon!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
swirIdude 01/20/23 2:00:45 PM #47:	I read that as BK and was ready to have it my way. --- Azuarc is my favorite arc of the Game of the Decade 2020 anime. <cite>swirIdude posted [p:970973259] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I read that as BK and was ready to have it my way.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/20/23 2:05:00 PM #48:	ZeeksFire posted... I can't see Banjo being able to get in melee with Vrtra from my point of view, after all, he mechanically can't get both flight and invincibility at the same time. The problem would be combat location. I personally can't see Kirby surviving, going as a draconic styled beast within the first 30 to get the most value in 5 minutes will backfire, since none of the transformations increase his defenses. I'll need to think more on it, but rule 1 of knockout bear has the flaw of everyone knows of knockout bear rules. Kirby doesn't get boosted parameters, but the Zenos form can create defensive forcefields which have no-sold a limit break(ish) from Estinien before. PC dragoons in XIV has a level 3 limit break called Dragonsong Dive, which creates a huge dragon head of pure energy -- this matches the technique Estinien performs alongside Gaius to attack Zenos in a flashback. If Banjo can't fly and wonderwing at the same time though that makes it WAY harder for him to kill Vrtra. Like, much, much harder. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970973331] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>ZeeksFire posted... </cite><quote>I can't see Banjo being able to get in melee with Vrtra from my point of view, after all, he mechanically can't get both flight and invincibility at the same time. The problem would be combat location. I personally can't see Kirby surviving, going as a draconic styled beast within the first 30 to get the most value in 5 minutes will backfire, since none of the transformations increase his defenses. I'll need to think more on it, but rule 1 of knockout bear has the flaw of everyone knows of knockout bear rules.</quote>Kirby doesn't get boosted parameters, but the Zenos form can create defensive forcefields which have no-sold a limit break(ish) from Estinien before. PC dragoons in XIV has a level 3 limit break called Dragonsong Dive, which creates a huge dragon head of pure energy -- this matches the technique Estinien performs alongside Gaius to attack Zenos in a flashback.If Banjo can't fly and wonderwing at the same time though that makes it WAY harder for him to kill Vrtra. Like, much, much harder.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy 01/20/23 2:12:01 PM #49:	I'm not asking Banjo to LIVE, god no! I'm simply asking him to use the tremendous momentum from his Beak Bomb to lawn dart his ass at the big dragon. Normally, Banjo gets belmont'd back by attacks, but the Beak Bomb actually continues his momentum - he just loses control and hilariously and painfully crashes as he skids along the floor. The ideal is not for Banjo to go through a big attack and survive - it's that he takes it, is horribly mauled, and his charred, screaming body carries through anyway. Or y'know. He just wonderwings to them when they're in a tunnel they can barely get through. Like Hell if my guys are coming outside to fight the dragon. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor <cite>Kamekguy posted [p:970973506] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>I'm not asking Banjo to LIVE, god no!I'm simply asking him to use the tremendous momentum from his Beak Bomb to lawn dart his ass at the big dragon. Normally, Banjo gets belmont'd back by attacks, but the Beak Bomb actually continues his momentum - he just loses control and hilariously and painfully crashes as he skids along the floor. The ideal is not for Banjo to go through a big attack and survive - it's that he takes it, is horribly mauled, and his charred, screaming body carries through anyway.Or y'know. He just wonderwings to them when they're in a tunnel they can barely get through. Like Hell if my guys are coming outside to fight the dragon.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 01/20/23 2:18:14 PM #50:	My main concern with the tunnel strat is it requires the way forward to be clear when Vivi is likely to camp a safe spot such as a doorway to cast magic from, and Gael and Haurchefant will likely be close to him. There's so many bodies inbetween Banjo and his target in enclosed spaces that he's unlikely to succeed. The Wonderwing doesn't make him untouchable, just invincible. Maybe if Vrtra destroys the entrances to make room for himself? But he knows he has to stay back until the bear is dealt with. --- Shine on, you crazy diamond. <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:970973643] in ~FIGHT!~ K... [t:80317638]...</cite> <quote>My main concern with the tunnel strat is it requires the way forward to be clear when Vivi is likely to camp a safe spot such as a doorway to cast magic from, and Gael and Haurchefant will likely be close to him. There's so many bodies inbetween Banjo and his target in enclosed spaces that he's unlikely to succeed. The Wonderwing doesn't make him untouchable, just invincible. Maybe if Vrtra destroys the entrances to make room for himself? But he knows he has to stay back until the bear is dealt with.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List	Page List: 1, 2

Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Kirby,Sagat, K.Rool, B&K v Estinien, Vrtra, Gael, Vivi, Haurchefant (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Kirby,Sagat, K.Rool, B&K v Estinien, Vrtra, Gael, Vivi, Haurchefant